Comprehensive Guide to Clone Movements Found in Rolex Reps

[engbanna1]

@dogwood I have a VSF Rolex Submarine Hulk. About a year old, bought from a TD. Worn rarely and never been rough with it or dropped/banged it before.

The issue happened after a long stint of not wearing it. So going about setting the watch for the day and everything seems to work perfectly fine but went to set the date manually by putting the crown at position 1 the date wheel doesn’t move and then tried setting the date automatically by cycling through the hour hand 24 hours and the date still won’t jump to the next day. It looks like it attempts to jump as I can hear a click but it looks looks stuck at day 15th and won’t move. I also tried by letting the it goes past midnight normally but the issue still

 

[dogwood]

@dogwood I have a VSF Rolex Submarine Hulk. About a year old, bought from a TD. Worn rarely and never been rough with it or dropped/banged it before.

The issue happened after a long stint of not wearing it. So going about setting the watch for the day and everything seems to work perfectly fine but went to set the date manually by putting the crown at position 1 the date wheel doesn’t move and then tried setting the date automatically by cycling through the hour hand 24 hours and the date still won’t jump to the next day. It looks like it attempts to jump as I can hear a click but it looks looks stuck at day 15th and won’t move. I also tried by letting the it goes past midnight normally but the issue still

Hmm, sounds like something in the date works has come out of alignment. It could be that the date disc has somehow managed to pop-up and out of its track. That's unlikely since there's a retaining clip that holds it down, but that clip might have failed. The only way to know for sure would be to remove the hands and dial and have a look at the dial side of the movement. It's also possible that there's some debris from assembly that's finally managed to jam up the works. E.g. a rogue hair that has wrapped itself around something and is hooked over the teeth in the date disc.

 

[raydelta]

Hey guys, can you confirm if theres been a mistake on this watch's specs? I bought it with it being advertised as DD3285 but this guide and lots of other sources seem to suggest it would be the SH3285/VR3285 which is not as good as the DD3285.

Before purchasing I researched the DDD3285 and everything said this was the best GMT movement for reps, so I paid.
I've asked Reppossed and his reponse said "Yours has a VR3285. They’re only different visually arent they?" However the for sale thread said DD3285.

Heres the link to the watch I bought @dogwood if you could share some knowledge that would be epic, would a photo with the caseback off help?

https://forum.replica-watch.info/threads/sold-qc248-arf-pepsi-gmt-dd3285-£490.10998622/

 

[raydelta]

Afew errors above with typing as I have finger bandage on, sorry, please and thank you in advance for your time Dogwood.

 

[xZeroCoolx]

Hey guys, can you confirm if theres been a mistake on this watch's specs? I bought it with it being advertised as DD3285 but this guide and lots of other sources seem to suggest it would be the SH3285/VR3285 which is not as good as the DD3285.

Before purchasing I researched the DDD3285 and everything said this was the best GMT movement for reps, so I paid.
I've asked Reppossed and his reponse said "Yours has a VR3285. They’re only different visually arent they?" However the for sale thread said DD3285.

Heres the link to the watch I bought @dogwood if you could share some knowledge that would be epic, would a photo with the caseback off help?

https://forum.replica-watch.info/threads/sold-qc248-arf-pepsi-gmt-dd3285-£490.10998622/

The ARF does not us a DD3285, that is a mistake.

 

[raydelta]

The ARF does not us a DD3285, that is a mistake.

Thanks for the reply, I assume its using the VR/SH3285? Is the quality difference big enough to worry about price paid / quality of movement? Hoped Dogwood would know

 

[dogwood]

Hey guys, can you confirm if theres been a mistake on this watch's specs? I bought it with it being advertised as DD3285 but this guide and lots of other sources seem to suggest it would be the SH3285/VR3285 which is not as good as the DD3285.

Before purchasing I researched the DDD3285 and everything said this was the best GMT movement for reps, so I paid.
I've asked Reppossed and his reponse said "Yours has a VR3285. They’re only different visually arent they?" However the for sale thread said DD3285.

Heres the link to the watch I bought @dogwood if you could share some knowledge that would be epic, would a photo with the caseback off help?

https://forum.replica-watch.info/threads/sold-qc248-arf-pepsi-gmt-dd3285-£490.10998622/

The only factory that sells GMTs with the DD3285 movement is Clean. All other factories use a different movement, most likely the SH3285 or SH3285 v2.

There are meaningful differences between the SH3285, SH3285 v2, and the DD3285. The DD3285 is hands down a better movement. If the watch was advertised as having a DD3285 movement and was delivered with a SH3285 or SH3285 v2 movement then that would be grounds a return and full refund.

@RepPossessed you are a Trusted Dealer, and as such, you are expected to not make mistakes in representation like this. I'm assuming that this watch is stock and is not a hybrid ARF with a DD movement. I would expect that if you were selling a hybrid piece it would have been clearly stated. I'm assuming this was simply an oversight on your part and you accidentally mislabelled your sale with DD3285 instead of SH3285. Please see to it that this situation gets resolved swiftly, that @raydelta is made whole, and that these types of mistakes don't happen again.

 

[raydelta]

The only factory that sells GMTs with the DD3285 movement is Clean. All other factories use a different movement, most likely the SH3285 or SH3285 v2.

There are meaningful differences between the SH3285, SH3285 v2, and the DD3285. The DD3285 is hands down a better movement. If the watch was advertised as having a DD3285 movement and was delivered with a SH3285 or SH3285 v2 movement then that would be grounds a return and full refund.

@RepPossessed you are a Trusted Dealer, and as such, you are expected to not make mistakes in representation like this. I'm assuming that this watch is stock and is not a hybrid ARF with a DD movement. I would expect that if you were selling a hybrid piece it would have been clearly stated. I'm assuming this was simply an oversight on your part and you accidentally mislabelled your sale with DD3285 instead of SH3285. Please see to it that this situation gets resolved swiftly, that @raydelta is made whole, and that these types of mistakes don't happen again.

Thank you for your reply and your time @dogwood, it was advertised as DD3285 as per the URL containing "sold-qc248-arf-pepsi-gmt-dd3285-£490" and the title being: QC248 ARF Pepsi GMT - DD3285 - £490.

I'm abit dissapointed but have previously bought from RepPossessed with no complaints, but with this one, I saw the watch, liked the look of it and thought I'd put my trust in the DD3285 after reading reviews of it online being the "best" GMT Movement, then asked to buy and paid.

Is the SH3285 reliable?

I've removed stickers, sized it and worn it before realising that it was miss sold, the thing that got me to look into it was that RepPossessed commented on a new sale for QC259 saying "Correction: Movement is actually a VR3285" and I thought... Wait thats a ARF GMT... has mine been missold as a DD3285 but its not? So I asked, got told its a VR, then did some research and concluded it must be the SH3285.

I assume QC259 is also a SH3285 too.

 

[RepPossessed]

The only factory that sells GMTs with the DD3285 movement is Clean. All other factories use a different movement, most likely the SH3285 or SH3285 v2.

There are meaningful differences between the SH3285, SH3285 v2, and the DD3285. The DD3285 is hands down a better movement. If the watch was advertised as having a DD3285 movement and was delivered with a SH3285 or SH3285 v2 movement then that would be grounds a return and full refund.

@RepPossessed you are a Trusted Dealer, and as such, you are expected to not make mistakes in representation like this. I'm assuming that this watch is stock and is not a hybrid ARF with a DD movement. I would expect that if you were selling a hybrid piece it would have been clearly stated. I'm assuming this was simply an oversight on your part and you accidentally mislabelled your sale with DD3285 instead of SH3285. Please see to it that this situation gets resolved swiftly, that @raydelta is made whole, and that these types of mistakes don't happen again.

I instantly offered the buyer a return for full refund as soon as he told me which he accepted.

I have an open returns policy anyway so it’s not even a discussion.

Silly mistake on my part, they are VR I don’t know how I got DD in my head when typing them up.

 

[dogwood]

I instantly offered the buyer a return for full refund as soon as he told me which he accepted.

I have an open returns policy anyway so it’s not even a discussion.

Silly mistake on my part, they are VR I don’t know how I got DD in my head when typing them up.

A class act on your part. @RepPossessed I doff my cap to you.

For those reading this in the future; this is what the "Trusted" part of "Trusted Dealer" means.

 

[raydelta]

A class act on your part. @RepPossessed I doff my cap to you.

For those reading this in the future; this is what the "Trusted" part of "Trusted Dealer" means.

Theres been no question on my part of wether @RepPossessed was untrusted, or purposefully mislabled the sale (I know he hasn't done it on purpose). Hence why I said "I'm abit dissapointed but have previously bought from RepPossessed with no complaints"

I also asked in my first post on this thread "Hey guys, can you confirm if theres been a mistake on this watch's specs?"

I know if it wasn't the DD it was a clerical error, but the main purpose of posting here was to assertain if it was definately not a DD movement and I knew @dogwood would know, and because I've already taken the stickers off and sized it, wether the VR/SH3285 was reliable enough for me not to worry, or wether the price was right for it not being DD.

Unfortunately, I'm struggling to find any reliability information for the SH/VR3285 online you see. Hence asking here

I did say to RepPossessed that mistakes happen and was there any middle ground rather than me returning him what is essentially now a used watch as I would feel bad for him having to take back a watch thats been stripped of stickers and sized.

 

[RepPossessed]

Don’t feel bad at all, my mistake so il be accountable for it.

If it’s not the watch you want just send it back across, I can get the clean for you if you like but right now with china new year my hands are tied.

But I can assure you the price was correct for that ARF Vr model I got that part right.

 

[VintageSubEnjoyer]

Don’t feel bad at all, my mistake so il be accountable for it.

If it’s not the watch you want just send it back across, I can get the clean for you if you like but right now with china new year my hands are tied.

But I can assure you the price was correct for that ARF Vr model I got that part right

You don't happen to sell just movements do you? Need a VS3135 and a couple VR3135s but those I've gone through in the past aren't as reputable

 

[RepPossessed]

You don't happen to sell just movements do you? Need a VS3135 and a couple VR3135s but those I've gone through in the past aren't as reputable

I don’t

The latest version VR V2 is supposedly more stable I’ve been told that that many have been sold without many issues

 

[spillo ...]

clear











wonderful complete in-depth description and ... super technical for a passionate beginner like me.
I think I understood that the DANDONG factory is the best in the manufacture of rep movements.
the acronym can be DD in front of the number or VS (if vsf) but behind the acronym VR which factory is there??
thank you very much.

Maurizio

 

[dogwood]

clear











wonderful complete in-depth description and ... super technical for a passionate beginner like me.
I think I understood that the DANDONG factory is the best in the manufacture of rep movements.
the acronym can be DD in front of the number or VS (if vsf) but behind the acronym VR which factory is there??
thank you very much.

Maurizio

The prefix VR is typically used for specific movements from Shanghai factory such as the vr3130 vr3135 vr3186, vr3230 and vr3235. These movements were first used by VRF so that’s where the “VR” comes from. However, unlike the VS (Dandong) movements which remained exclusive to VSF, the “VR” (Shanghai) movements were not exclusive to VRF and eventually these movements were used by many different factories to make rep watches. Because of this trend away from exclusivity, new movements are now commonly referred to with the prefixes SH (for Shanghai) and DD (for Dandong) eg DD4130, DD3285, SH3285, SH4130, etc. But it’s important to learn to identify movements based on the annotated images in the original post — trust but verify. TD websites list hundreds of watches from different factories and sometimes the TDs make mistakes in how they label movements. If you know what to look for you’ll be able to verify the claims of any seller.

 

[maker99]

@KJ2020 can you double check my GMT movements section. I think I’ve got it right, but after the snafu on Reddit with my guide being referenced in the C+ factory GMT controversy, I want to make sure I’ve crossed my t’s and dotted my lower-case j’s.

I really liked your post man! And just a heads up the wheels are silver at the edge because they are painted with god knows what and then punched out of a big sheet. Gen wheels are a hard baked ceramic coating over a steel brass mixture. In the newer models this is replaced with a PVD/Molecular coating process which is one of the most important secret processes inside of HW’s fortress lair in Beinne . This process is similar to what is used to adhere the platinum gas particulate to the cerachrom bezels

 

[pete9012s]

Many thanks indeed Dogwood - I have now read through your guide and it is super informative and most helpful.
Regards

Pete

 

[vm4sx]

The THB V3 Day-Dates are now coming with a movement that looks like the newer versions of SH32xx, due to the balance/bridge upgrade.

Trusty website says it's DD3255, but I think it's probably to be a SH3255 v2, what do you guys think?




Do anyone checked this kind of movement in other Day Dates?

 

[dogwood]

The THB V3 Day-Dates are now coming with a movement that looks like the newer versions of SH32xx, due to the balance/bridge upgrade.

Trusty website says it's DD3255, but I think it's probably to be a SH3255 v2, what do you guys think?




Do anyone checked this kind of movement in other Day Dates?

Here's why I remain unconvinced that the movement in these new THB day dates is in fact the long sought after Dandong 3255 movement:

1. All of the Dandong 32xx movements we've seen have a hairspring that coils inwards in a clockwise direction. This new movement has a counter clockwise coil to the hairspring (see orange arrows). I think this is the biggest "tell" that this is in fact a v2 of the Shanghai 3255 movement.
2. The location of the pallet fork jewel is in the wrong place for this to be a Dandong 32xx movement. The major difference between Dandong and Shanghai 32xx movements is that Dandong movements are a true clone of the gen and as such use the skewed pallet fork design which places the pallet fork jewel slightly off center if you were to draw a line between the center of the balance wheel and the center of the escape wheel. The Shanghai 32xx movements don't copy the gen design, instead they use a "31xx" style straight pallet fork; as such the pallet fork jewel on Shanghai 32xx movements is pretty much perfectly in line with the balance-escape wheel axis. As you can see in the pics below, the pallet fork jewel on this "DD3255" isn't in the offset position (red arrows) -- this makes me think we're dealing with an updated version of the Shanghai 3255.
3. Finally there's the intermediate crown wheel style. The newer Shanghai 3285 and 3255 movements both use the gen like design with a wide pivot top (green arrows). The older VR3235 and VR3235 v2 both still use the "31xx" style keyless works and intermediate winding wheel which has a smaller footprint on the train bridge. The size of this dot can be a useful way to differentiate a DD3235 from an SH3235 v2, but in the case of the 3255 movements, it seems like the Shanghai version is based on the SH3285 which has the gen-like large pivot, so this isn't a very useful identifier.

For these reasons, I'm not going to update the guide to say that there's a Dandong 3255 until I see clear evidence that this THB movement isn't just a v2 of the SH3255.

Any help from @trustytime on clarifying this would be very helpful. For now, my money is on this just being an update to the Shanghai movement.