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ARF silently released new 16610LN's and 16610LV's

mclarendude

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2841

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How would you say they compare? any sense in a hybrid?
It looks like there is a lot of variation in batches. So far I had the original ARF Kermit, 2020, and the new ARF 2023 Flat 4 Kermit. i have a 2023 RAF LN in hand, and I have a RAF Kermit on the way, should get it monday. The RAF LN is better than any of the ARF I’ve had, in every single aspect. Build quality, bracelet finis, sel fitment, crystal etc. everything. Maybe I was lucky with the RAF :) Ill do a full report, when I get the RAF Kermit next week
 

KJ2020

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Mine is the exact same way. Some here have gotten the same mk1 dial and Flat 4 with a flush crown. I think we just need to replaced the crown and tube with Gen. I also plan on swapping the bezel with WSO because my bezel sucks (no click feeling).
Bro try replacing just the click first and see if it's OK. Much cheaper and maybe all it needs. WSO bezels can be mediocre depending on batch. The shape and width of the bezel teeth, slope of the outer edge, etc. can vary.

The click is actually bendable to a degree so yours may be able to be bent so that the long tip comes into a more pressured contact with the inner bezel teeth. This part is generally pretty stout so a pin vise and very sturdy tweezers are perfect for tweaking it. They can also snap if overstressed so be aware. Order two if you want to try a new one.

It's also possible the click tip isn't aligned with the bezel inner teeth. It's pretty easy for it to get pushed up too high or too low relative to the inner teeth which can sometimes result in binding or just no clicking if the bend is too slight.

16610 bezel click
 

Singapore9

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I can't unsee the low pearls now! So easy to get right - frustrating! I guess many will upgrade to a gen anyway, at least on the LNs.
 

Takumar

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I can't unsee the low pearls now! So easy to get right - frustrating! I guess many will upgrade to a gen anyway, at least on the LNs.
Sry for the noob question but where can i get one? And are there any other options, like aged Vietnam dials?
 

Singapore9

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I wouldn't bother going Vietnam for a 16610 insert, to be honest. if you're going with an LN, you can still get gen in blister for ~EUR250.

For an LV, keep an eye out in M2M here and they're pretty common on ebay and elsewhere:

 
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KJ2020

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I can't unsee the low pearls now! So easy to get right - frustrating! I guess many will upgrade to a gen anyway, at least on the LNs.
The ARF pearl is only slightly low, the greater issue is that it's smaller in diameter than the gen.

HyS6nD.jpeg


It's not terribly difficult to swap a better pearl in. There is some discussion about that on this page.
 
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Singapore9

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The ARF pearl is only slightly low, the greater issue is that it's smaller in diameter than the gen.

HyS6nD.jpeg


It's not terribly difficult to swap a better pearl in. There is some discussion about that on this page.

Yeah, it's the smaller diameter with the larger 'gap' to the top radius that is exacerbating it, I think. It's not the end of the world and an easy change.
 
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GMTFanboy

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Bro try replacing just the click first and see if it's OK. Much cheaper and maybe all it needs. WSO bezels can be mediocre depending on batch. The shape and width of the bezel teeth, slope of the outer edge, etc. can vary.

The click is actually bendable to a degree so yours may be able to be bent so that the long tip comes into a more pressured contact with the inner bezel teeth. This part is generally pretty stout so a pin vise and very sturdy tweezers are perfect for tweaking it. They can also snap if overstressed so be aware. Order two if you want to try a new one.

It's also possible the click tip isn't aligned with the bezel inner teeth. It's pretty easy for it to get pushed up too high or too low relative to the inner teeth which can sometimes result in binding or just no clicking if the bend is too slight.

16610 bezel click
This is majorly helpful. Thanks!

Was also curious if it would be difficult to swap in a gen crown and tube into this ARF v2 case? The gap is really bothering me
 

GMTFanboy

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Busy evening at Manic MCD's garage where I just did a VR swap to the watch.

"Now, MCD, why would ya do that if your movement was running okay?"

Mind ya business, that's why,


Anyway. I have seen a lot of these SHV2 movements on the timegraphers, mine included, with very high amplitudes. I've handled countless VR movements and even the best ones do not go north of 260ish degrees. I am a man who sticks with things who have proven their worth. VR has proven its worth since it came out and I am honestly accustomed to doing these swaps no matter what.

So, here we go.

HyM0At.jpeg


These numbers are more realistic when it comes to 3135 movements.

While doing the swap, I noticed that the dial hole is "offset" while on the VR3135. I did not notice this on the SHV2. I only noticed something was wrong after installing the hands and noticing that they were perfectly aligned at 12 but not at 6. I managed to loosen the dial, install the hands, and then tighten the dial and that sorted that.

While I was doing that, the case was going through a 5ATM wet test. I did it this way since everyone likes to tug on my cojones when I do these tests with the movement in. I am very happy to report that the watch is water resistant out of the box to 50 meters, 150 feet, or 5 atmospheres. Way more than most of us will ever go down to. Only thing I did was to grease all seals with silicone grease.

HysjiD.jpeg

HysDVY.jpeg


Finally, after some in-case adjustment, here are the numbers.

HyMcY3.jpeg

HyMxvE.jpeg


I am now in the process of taking some HD/Macro pics of an SH, a VR, and a SHv2 movement comparison that I will be posting in the Movements section.
Does your crown have the gap between case and crown tube? Was curious if that impacted my water resistance
 

KJ2020

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This is majorly helpful. Thanks!

Was also curious if it would be difficult to swap in a gen crown and tube into this ARF v2 case? The gap is really bothering me
IDK if the new ARF case will take a gen tube without a re-drill and re-tap. But even if if it did, chances are good the tube would still stick out. This issue has been around intermittently for years with ARF Sub cases (6 digit also). It's caused by the case not being countersunk enough to thread the tube in below its bevel (#2 arrow).

15432947128110.jpg


There is another, less perfect solution. The end of the tube can be filed or grinded down the amount of the gap. Then the stem has to be shortened by the same amount. It's a little crude but if done neatly and the tube end is clean and re-brushed / polished some folks can live with it better than having to see a gap every time you look at your watch. Things like this often end up being the first and last things we look at and can really sour our experience.

The tube should be removed to shorten the end, it's simple to do even with sandpaper on a flat surface. Though believe it or not I've seen it done while still in the watch AND without the movement removed. 🤪

FWIW, there are gaps on some gens, though much more common on 6 digits than 5. Random 5 digit samples below, no gaps.

zNJdRD.jpg
 
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GMTFanboy

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IDK if the new ARF case will take a gen tube without a re-drill and re-tap. But even if if it did, chances are good the tube would still stick out. This issue has been around intermittently for years with ARF Sub cases (6 digit also). It's caused by the case not being countersunk enough to thread the tube in below its bevel (#2 arrow).

15432947128110.jpg


There is another, less perfect solution. The end of the tube can be filed or grinded down the amount of the gap. Then the stem has to be shortened by the same amount. It's a little crude but if done neatly and the tube end is clean and re-brushed / polished some folks can live with it better than having to see a gap every time you look at your watch. Things like this often end up being the first and last things we look at and can really sour our experience.

FWIW, there are gaps on some gens, though much more common on 6 digits than 5. Random 5 digit samples below, no gaps.

zNJdRD.jpg
The tube explanation was very insightful. Thanks! Looks like I should just live with it. Would a Gen. crown fit on the existing tube? The reason I ask is because I have read about other replacing the crown on their 5 digit reps. Is there any benefit?
 
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KJ2020

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The tube explanation was very insightful. Thanks! Looks like I should just live with it. Would a Gen. crown fit on the existing tube? The reason I ask is because I have read about other replacing the crown on their 5 digit reps. Is there any benefit?
Can't say firsthand if a gen crown will fit this batch of rep tubes. Sometimes they will. People swap in gen crowns for various reasons - rep crowns can look bad or function poorly, or just to kick it up a notch. Gen is gen and some rep crowns just don't cut it on an upper tier rep. But a gen crown really deserves a gen tube.

Just today we saw first pics of the new CLEAN 126713 GRNR (TT YG GMT with Jubilee). It's crown is enough to make you cry.

H1AuUX.jpeg
 
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2841

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Can't say firsthand if a gen crown will fit this batch of rep tubes. Sometimes they will. People swap in gen crowns for various reasons - rep crowns can look bad or function poorly, or just to kick it up a notch. Gen is gen and some rep crowns just don't cut it on an upper tier rep. But a gen crown really deserves a gen tube.

Just today we saw first pics of the new CLEAN 126713 GRNR (TT YG GMT with Jubilee). It's crown is enough to make you cry.

Hy0x7R.jpeg
It’s hit and miss. For example gen crown was not a fit on the CF Daytona. But a perfect fit on my RAF ln (and actually got rid of most of the gap)
 

mclarendude

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Does your crown have the gap between case and crown tube? Was curious if that impacted my water resistance
It does not. I do not know about the second one. I would imagine if it is fully screwed in, all the seals in the triplock are “engaged”.
 
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