ROLEX 6-Digit Sub Bezel and Crystal Swap - DIY

[KJ2020]

As you can see, the gasket and the retaining ring stay fixed to the bezel when I pop it off. I don't feel that should happen?

It's not abnormal for these parts to stay together during removal. However they need to be separated before reinstalling. I address this specifically in my tutorial post (with pics). If you are attempting to reinstall them together, this is likely the cause of your issue.

 

[macguffin]

Crystal gasket, crystal, THEN retaining ring.

Install click springs, click and balls.

Hytrel ring in bezel groove, press bezel without insert installed.

Make sure bezel is rotating properly. If not, fix it before proceeding any further, unless you accept that it won't rotate.

Last, adhere or press fit the insert.

You mentioned that you installed a different crystal. If you also installed a different crystal gasket, it may be thicker than the original. This can cause the retaining ring to bulge out and impede bezel rotation. Crystal gaskets can be thinned (or shortened in height) easily and quickly to correct these types of issues.

Crystal gasket shave - DIY

If a bezel won't rotate, first thing I try is removing the hytrel ring and see if it rotates then. You don't need the click, or springs and balls to do this test. If it rotates without the hytrel ring, that's probably the issue. You may have mangled it or installed it upside down.

You can thin one by sanding it lightly with some worn 400 grit or 600 grit sandpaper. Just don't stretch it out while sanding it. A mangled section can just be cut away, as much as 10mm or so.

This is how nearly all current hytrel rings should be installed. The bottom (wider) "step" goes up, toward the insert.

I don't bother much with hytrel rings anymore if there is a rotation issue. I go straight to fishline, which works very well as long as you are a little patient in finding a proper diameter.

I wish I had your image of the Hytrel gasket orientation before pressing a bezel on with it upside down. I searched and searched but couldn't find a simple diagram like that, so I did the intuitive thing and installed it with the wide, flat lip facing toward the case body. Wrong. That was a pain in the ass to get back off!

I need to pick up some fishing line because I can't find gaskets for the 126610 like you can for the 116610-sized subs. Thanks again for an awesome guide. I had some hiccups, but I can't imagine how bad it would have been without your photos and walkthrough.

 

[m5750]

It's not abnormal for these parts to stay together during removal. However they need to be separated before reinstalling. I address this specifically in my tutorial post (with pics). If you are attempting to reinstall them together, this is likely the cause of your issue.

After reading carefully, I think I know what happened, but I do have one question about the crystal gasket.

First, what I feel I did wrong, is the step on the metal ring wasn't mated with the case. It was upside down.

For the gasket, do I put the gasket on the crystal first? And should the overlap be on the bottom facing the case before pressing in the crystal?

I can see that the bezel will "click" in the step closest to the case body.

Your post and macguffin have helped me tremendously. I'm going to re-order the parts. Again, and hopefully turn this nightmare into something I can wear.

Appreciate you man. Thank you.

 

[m5750]

@KJ2020 - Am I missing a gasket here as well?

 

[macguffin]

@KJ2020 - Am I missing a gasket here as well?

Nah, that's the channel the ball bearings on springs ride in. The grooved part is what the click interfaces with.

 

[m5750]

Nah, that's the channel the ball bearings on springs ride in. The grooved part is what the click interfaces with.

I just looked at everything through a loupe. I think I see exactly what I was doing wrong. Just ordered the crystal, springs and bearings I lost lol

 

[KJ2020]

First, what I feel I did wrong, is the step on the metal ring wasn't mated with the case. It was upside down.

Be careful here, let's see a pic of your retaining ring. If by step you mean the retaining ring lip, that goes up, away from the case. It catches the hytrel ring underneath it to anchor the bezel to the case. It is not likely (probably not possible) that your retaining ring was installed upside down.

It is possible the ring was not mated to the case, this can easily happen when the parts are not separated before being reinstalled.

For the gasket, do I put the gasket on the crystal first? And should the overlap be on the bottom facing the case before pressing in the crystal?

You can put the gasket on the case, then pop the crystal into the gasket, or mate the pieces first and then fit the gasket to the case. It doesn't matter. I usually mate the pieces together first.

Not all gaskets are exactly alike and it can be hard to tell which way is up. I often will attempt a fit both ways and see which way is more snug to the crystal. One side is always harder to snap in place, that's the side I leave it on.

A note about cleaning crystals. It is FAR easier to clean one loose than after it's installed. I use running water, dishwashing liquid, and a high quality artist's brush. Wash your hands first, run water on both sides, soap it up good and rinse thoroughly. Then immediately blow dry it vigorously with an air puffer (no heat).

I hold it carefully with thumb and forefinger touching nothing but the edge. Concentrate on the bottom during the drying. If you don't get rid of every drop it will leave a spot and you have to start over. The top can be cleaned again later if it isn't perfect but the inside has to be flawless.

Then fit the also washed gasket to the crystal without touching the inside and immediately place the pieces onto the case. If you contaminate the inside before getting it onto the case, it can be washed again while the pieces are mated. I don't do this initially because a better cleaning is done with the pieces separated. Also it is harder and takes longer to blow dry the inside with a gasket fitted. But since it's already been cleaned once, it's worth leaving the pieces together in a re-do.

Don't get discouraged if the inside isn't perfect on the first attempt. Do it again til you're satisfied. I've washed and dried a crystal 5 or 6 times before, you do what you have to. It only takes a couple minutes. The inside can attract dust particles if you set it down (gasket in place) on a bench for example because it came off when the bezel install didn't go right. Or you had to press it out of the retaining ring again and it was fingered. Every time it gets contaminated it needs to be cleaned again. You'll thank yourself later.

Also make sure the rehaut ledge is clean and spotless before placing the pieces on the case. Few things are worse than wearing your watch a few days later and seeing a nasty piece of dirt or lint sitting on top of the rehaut ledge, trapped by the crystal. Sometimes you can use a tiny artist brush to coax it out after removing the movement but if not it means removing everything again and starting over. Believe me it can happen.

 

[Andrew_watchlist]

this has been a cautionary tale for me. About to do the same with one of mine, to do a crystal and insert swap. Need to be very careful.

 

[m5750]

Be careful here, let's see a pic of your retaining ring. If by step you mean the retaining ring lip, that goes up, away from the case. It catches the hytrel ring underneath it to anchor the bezel to the case. It is not likely (probably not possible) that your retaining ring was installed upside down.

It is possible the ring was not mated to the case, this can easily happen when the parts are not separated before being reinstalled.

This is precisely what happened. I looked at it closely and I had it on upside down. It doesn't seem to be damaged when I look at it under magnification.

You can put the gasket on the case, then pop the crystal into the gasket, or mate the pieces first and then fit the gasket to the case. It doesn't matter. I usually mate the pieces together first.

Not all gaskets are exactly alike and it can be hard to tell which way is up. I often will attempt a fit both ways and see which way is more snug to the crystal. One side is always harder to snap in place, that's the side I leave it on.

A note about cleaning crystals. It is FAR easier to clean one loose than after it's installed. I use running water, dishwashing liquid, and a high quality artist's brush. Wash your hands first, run water on both sides, soap it up good and rinse thoroughly. Then immediately blow dry it vigorously with an air puffer (no heat).

I hold it carefully with thumb and forefinger touching nothing but the edge. Concentrate on the bottom during the drying. If you don't get rid of every drop it will leave a spot and you have to start over. The top can be cleaned again later if it isn't perfect but the inside has to be flawless.

Then fit the also washed gasket to the crystal without touching the inside and immediately place the pieces onto the case. If you contaminate the inside before getting it onto the case, it can be washed again while the pieces are mated. I don't do this initially because a better cleaning is done with the pieces separated. Also it is harder and takes longer to blow dry the inside with a gasket fitted. But since it's already been cleaned once, it's worth leaving the pieces together in a re-do.

Don't get discouraged if the inside isn't perfect on the first attempt. Do it again til you're satisfied. I've washed and dried a crystal 5 or 6 times before, you do what you have to. It only takes a couple minutes. The inside can attract dust particles if you set it down (gasket in place) on a bench for example because it came off when the bezel install didn't go right. Or you had to press it out of the retaining ring again and it was fingered. Every time it gets contaminated it needs to be cleaned again. You'll thank yourself later.

Also make sure the rehaut ledge is clean and spotless before placing the pieces on the case. Few things are worse than wearing your watch a few days later and seeing a nasty piece of dirt or lint sitting on top of the rehaut ledge, trapped by the crystal. Sometimes you can use a tiny artist brush to coax it out after removing the movement but if not it means removing everything again and starting over. Believe me it can happen.

This is unbelievably great information. Man, I really, really appreciate this. I almost gave up on this watch. Again, it's learning, but this piece has been from h*ll. As soon as the new crystals and bearings come, I'll follow up. I bought extras. The one time I did get the crystal in successfully, I heard a "click", and it was secure. I was only able to do that once. Now I'm certain I know what went wrong. I'll also take precaution with cleaning the glass first. Thoroughly. Thank you, thank you!

 

[m5750]

this has been a cautionary tale for me. About to do the same with one of mine, to do a crystal and insert swap. Need to be very careful.

Follow KJ's guide to the letter. It will be a huge help.

 

[m5750]

@KJ2020 - I finally finished it. Gonna be honest. This thing is from h*ll. The crystal didn't sit correctly and the bezel doesn't turn. But it looks good. I'm chalking it up as a beater. I tried 9 different ways and still not sure what is going on. I'm a hobbyist and not a watchmaker. I'll learn eventually. This one is definitely not a Seiko mod. Thank you for all of your help and this write up.

*PS - I took the movement out again and cleaned the dial/crystal again. The dial text is worn from when I scratched it and tried to polish it. The whole project was an absolute nightmare. I missed MANY spots. :-/

 

[Andrew_watchlist]

i just removed and replaced the bezel on my gmt, mine wouldn't turn initially, it just needed an extra firm push to seat it square after i reseated it.

 

[KJ2020]

@KJ2020 - I finally finished it. Gonna be honest. This thing is from h*ll. The crystal didn't sit correctly and the bezel doesn't turn. But it looks good. I'm chalking it up as a beater. I tried 9 different ways and still not sure what is going on. I'm a hobbyist and not a watchmaker. I'll learn eventually. This one is definitely not a Seiko mod. Thank you for all of your help and this write up.

*PS - I took the movement out again and cleaned the dial/crystal again. The dial text is worn from when I scratched it and tried to polish it. The whole project was an absolute nightmare. I missed MANY spots. :-/

Ah well, we all have to learn. At least it's running and wearable. I have some reps that I've gone back to years later after more experience and wonder what I was thinking, haha. You have your benchmark piece. It only gets better and easier from here, hopefully.

 

[m5750]

Ah well, we all have to learn. At least it's running and wearable. I have some reps that I've gone back to years later after more experience and wonder what I was thinking, haha. You have your benchmark piece. It only gets better and easier from here, hopefully.

Appreciate this, so much. I just need to step back on this one for now. My hair is turning grey.....fast.

 

[Andrew_watchlist]

Appreciate this, so much. I just need to step back on this one for now. My hair is turning grey.....fast.

i just know the first time i take hands off will be fun times.

 

[m5750]

i just know the first time i take hands off will be fun times.

Believe it or not, my first time was a breeze. It was the second time that I borked everything. Check 5 times, then press. Evenly haha.

 

[Reto]

How do you make sure the cyclops is aligned with the datewheel? I am assuming you would need to put the movement and dial back in the case to line everything up? I would hate to go through all this work just to have it not line up.

This is an excellent write up and am I gaining the courage to attempt this on my ZZF V2

 

[KJ2020]

How do you make sure the cyclops is aligned with the datewheel? I am assuming you would need to put the movement and dial back in the case to line everything up? I would hate to go through all this work just to have it not line up.

This is an excellent write up and am I gaining the courage to attempt this on my ZZF V2

You don't actually have to remove the movement to change a bezel or crystal. But if you do remove it then yes I put it back, even if only temporarily to line up the cyclops.

This is also necessary if a replacement crystal is different somehow like thinner or it has a shorter gasket because these things affect the date mag.

Which crystal gasket should I use?

Crystal gasket shave - DIY

Second hand catching on crystal

 

[Reto]

Thanks KJ! A couple of more questions

You don't actually have to remove the movement to change a bezel or crystal. But if you do remove it then yes I put it back, even if only temporarily to line up the cyclops.

This is also necessary if a replacement crystal is different somehow like thinner or it has a shorter gasket because these things affect the date mag.

Which crystal gasket should I use?

Crystal gasket shave - DIY

Second hand catching on crystal

Thanks KJ!! A couple of more questions. I received the crystal and gasket from
Clark. One side of the crystal gasket is tapered - I am assuming that is the top and is closest to the bezel?

Also do I actually press the crystal in first, then press the retaining ring seperately? So I would use 2 dies, one for the crystal, and one for the retaining ring?

Thanks!

 

[cajun600]

I posted this in the GMT thread KJ2020 did, but I wanted to share here to help out anyone that might be having probs finding something to press in the crystal retaining ring...HUGE THANK YOU TO @KJ2020 !!! You sir, are a gentlemen and a scholar...no cap

(The reply is from the GMT crystal swap thread, not this one, just fyi)

Steps are the same for Sub and GMT, just a few different bezel parts. The 2nd link has that info.

6-digit Sub crystal and bezel swap

6-digit GMT bezel install sequence

awesome, and the pics are back! thank you again...thanks to this tutorial and the links KJ2020 responded with, I was able to do a deep crystal swap more so using the "6-digit sub crystal and bezel swap link" on my CF 116710 GMT, was loads of fun figuring this out, lots of trial and error (LOL), and I bought a ton of tools to figure out which would work as the best crystal retaining ring presser (no access to a lathe to turn my own, etc.).

In case this helps anyone else, I found two options 'off the shelf' that work beautifully for pressing the retaining ring back properly and securely:
1. Money is no object option: Bergeon 5499-15 Set...specifically the 32mm/32.5mm double-sided die. Set was not cheap ($275) but dam are they nice and unbelievably high quality. I think there is a site that will sell individual dies, so I listed the one above that worked for me so you don't have to buy the whole set if you need this for the same watch I did.

2. Budget option - (and the winner IMHO) - is the aluminum die set from Esslinger for $30...I was able to use the 36mm die (inner dimension matches the base of the ring diameter perfectly and the die is straight walled, see attached pic). Very glad I found this option, and the set comes with many others...they are a bit rough and I had to swap one set out as the lip was too roughed up for my liking, and luckily Esslinger's customer service is always top notch. here's a direct link to the set as fyi: replacement-aluminum-die-set-for-watch-crystal-press-and-case-closer-set-of-30

I swapped in Deep and used a 2.7mm gasket from Esslinger as well as the CF gasket looked warped, and the end result is perfect to me. Happy swapping y'all!

IMG 3839

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