ROLEX 6-Digit Sub Bezel and Crystal Swap - DIY

[deadaglev]

Hm. I might try fish line at some point. Thanks for the insight there. But right now i still have a few new Hyrtel gaskets that i want to try and use. One thing at a time
Do you have any recommendation as to what part of the ring should be shaved down?

 

[KJ2020]

Hm. I might try fish line at some point. Thanks for the insight there. But right now i still have a few new Hyrtel gaskets that i want to try and use. One thing at a time
Do you have any recommendation as to what part of the ring should be shaved down?

If the issue is that the ring is too large in diameter, why not just shave the outer edge?

Alternately you can just cut a tiny section away. It is not necessary for the ring to be intact.

 

[deadaglev]

Sorry if my question was not formulated correctly.
What I meant is that the girth of the profile of the ring is always to big. Not the diameter of the whole ring. I know you can just cut out sections if that is the case.
To much girth results in resistance from the hyrtel ring when turning the bezel. My goal is to reduce that resistance to have a nicer, more smooth feeling when turning the bezel. I want to feel the click, not the hyrtel.
Now my thoughts are that you can also weaken the structure and the bezel becomes to loose and eventually falls apart if you remove the wrong sections.
Hence my question whit diagram what part exactly needs to be reduced.

 

[KJ2020]

Sorry if my question was not formulated correctly.
What I meant is that the girth of the profile of the ring is always to big. Not the diameter of the whole ring. I know you can just cut out sections if that is the case.
To much girth results in resistance from the hyrtel ring when turning the bezel. My goal is to reduce that resistance to have a nicer, more smooth feeling when turning the bezel. I want to feel the click, not the hyrtel.
Now my thoughts are that you can also weaken the structure and the bezel becomes to loose and eventually falls apart if you remove the wrong sections.
Hence my question whit diagram what part exactly needs to be reduced.

OK, first let me say a couple things about rep and aftermarket hytrel rings in general. I have worked with dozens of them.

There is no correlation between rep watch model and hytrel ring shape, or vertical orientation in the groove. In fact I can't recall ever finding a T shaped hytrel ring in any rep that came from a rep factory. They are all L shaped IME and are sometimes right side up and sometimes upside down, depending on model and factory. A common quick fix for a stiff or non rotating bezel is to flip the hytrel to the opposite vertical orientation and test the rotation as sometimes the factory goofs. Many aftermarket hytrels are T shaped.

There is no standardization in bezel groove height, retaining ring lip position, or hytrel ring shape, size, or orientation between factories even for the same model rep.

Rep and even aftermarket hytrel rings are cheap, flimsy and easily mangled beyond re-use. Even gen hytrels are supposed to be one time use and replaced after every removal. Personally I would not attempt to shave a T shaped hytrel in any of the locations you indicated as it seems unlikely to be accomplished without also altering other parts of the ring.

I have on occasion lightly sanded away unwanted height thickness due to minor mangling, or shaved an overall width thickness some. These techniques lent themselves well to sanding down fishline which is so much stronger and easier to work with. Just put one end in a pin vise, fold over a piece of 400 or 600 grit sandpaper and pull it along the length with desired pressure. Cut away the part held in the vise and the usable length is all roughly the same diameter.

But since you have several hytrels you can experiment with sanding in a couple places.

In your diagram I have added the positions of the bezel groove (yellow) and the retaining ring lip (blue).

I haven't ever tried using a T shaped hytrel where the protrusion did anything but get swallowed entirely by the bezel groove. In this example, you could just decrease the overall hytrel height.

If the hytrel T protrusion does interact with the bezel groove then sanding where your red line is will give the bezel more vertical play. Sanding the bottom vertical red line would give more lateral play but might also require the right side of the protrusion to be sanded. I really don't think this example can happen though, the protrusion on the T shaped hytrels I've seen look too slight to be capable of holding a bezel on.

Compared to overall width, the T protrusion is barely visible

 

[deadaglev]

Wow. Thank you very much for that extensive answer. Very interesting. I will have to try out and see what works best then.

 

[leo6929]

So, if I just want to replace a Xing Pepsi insert on a CF, is the heating-with-a-hair-dryer-until-it-can-be-gently-removed-from-the-bezel still a good option?

 

[KJ2020]

So, if I just want to replace a Xing Pepsi insert on a CF, is the heating-with-a-hair-dryer-until-it-can-be-gently-removed-from-the-bezel still a good option?

That's not a technique I've ever used successfully bro. I did try it once on a BP ceramic Sub and the glue goo didn't seem fazed much by it. Ofc variables like type, thickness and age of glue, amount and intensity of heat, etc can affect results. One thing is certain - intense heat that close to a dial/hands/movement can be detrimental so I would remove all before trying this.

 

[leo6929]

Ok, thanks KJ

 

[m5750]

@KJ2020 - I have a very, very noob question here. I know the thread is a bit old, but I followed this. Got 99% of the way there. Put the springs and bearings in, etc. The bezel won't turn after I pressed it on. Any suggestions?

 

[macguffin]

@KJ2020 - I have a very, very noob question here. I know the thread is a bit old, but I followed this. Got 99% of the way there. Put the springs and bearings in, etc. The bezel won't turn after I pressed it on. Any suggestions?

You may have the hytrel ring upside down. I found it to be counterintuitive because the flat side of the hytrel ring faces away from the watch case. There's a small step on the side of the ring that faces toward the watch case body.

 

[macguffin]

I guess I should clarify that I'm not using a genuine hytrel ring, but I (finally) found some on AE that work very well when oriented properly.

 

[m5750]

Appreciated. This rep build has been a nightmare. I guess I'll call it growing pains? hahaha. Thank you very much.

 

[macguffin]

@KJ2020 I can't thank you enough for this guide! It certainly saved my bacon, and this is an incredible resource!

Where did you source the silver paint to repaint your bezel insert numbers? In my haste, I got sloppy with the acetone, and some made it to the bezel insert.

 

[m5750]

@macguffin At this point, I ordered a new ceramic bezel insert that I broke. The bezel doesn't turn, but everything else looks good. The watch has fought me since day one (I bought it as a kit and built it). I'm done. It's officially a beater watch. At this point, I should have just bought a VSF rep and would have been less money. hahaha

 

[KJ2020]

@KJ2020 I can't thank you enough for this guide! It certainly saved my bacon, and this is an incredible resource!

Where did you source the silver paint to repaint your bezel insert numbers? In my haste, I got sloppy with the acetone, and some made it to the bezel insert.

I've used a bunch of different paint mods bro. If the insert is in place on the watch, a pen "flood fill" is my choice.

If the insert is loose I will often do a more permanent spray paint mod.

KJ2020 Paint Mod latest recommendation

Turquoise and Meteorite GMT

 

[KJ2020]

@macguffin At this point, I ordered a new ceramic bezel insert that I broke. The bezel doesn't turn, but everything else looks good. The watch has fought me since day one (I bought it as a kit and built it). I'm done. It's officially a beater watch. At this point, I should have just bought a VSF rep and would have been less money. hahaha

You might try some fishline as a substitute for the bezel gasket (hytrel ring).

Using fishline as a hytrel ring

 

[m5750]

You might try some fishline as a substitute for the bezel gasket (hytrel ring).

Using fishline as a hytrel ring

I was going to make a post. I'm so lost on this one. I think I'm doing something in the wrong order and it's making my hair fall out.

Bezel popped out easily, and of course I lost the bearings/springs. I got new ones. I got a new crystal because I shattered the first one, and I shattered that one too.

What I'm doing:
1. I put the crystal gasket around the ring while the bezel is off.
2. I then put the metal retainer on around it after.
3. I set the crystal in, line up the date window and press. I had it once and it seemed all good, but it was a little off, so I removed it again.
4. The time I did have the crystal in "correctly", I lightly pressed the bezel (before putting on the insert), and nothing. Wouldn't spin.
5. Then I broke the bezel insert at 4:00.
6. I have assembled countless Seiko watches with ease (for the most part), but this watch is from hell. 2 sets of hands. I broke the keyworks on the first movement. 2 crystals, now the bezel. I can't win with this one, so I'm convinced I need to learn on this one since it's still nice, but essentially a dumpster fire of a timepiece.




If you could shed some light on what I could be doing wrong, I'd be so unbelievably grateful. It's driving me nuts. I'd also be happy to post any pictures that would lead you to why I'm a complete mess up with this thing...

Thank you so much.

 

[macguffin]

I was going to make a post. I'm so lost on this one. I think I'm doing something in the wrong order and it's making my hair fall out.

Bezel popped out easily, and of course I lost the bearings/springs. I got new ones. I got a new crystal because I shattered the first one, and I shattered that one too.

What I'm doing:
1. I put the crystal gasket around the ring while the bezel is off.
2. I then put the metal retainer on around it after.
3. I set the crystal in, line up the date window and press. I had it once and it seemed all good, but it was a little off, so I removed it again.
4. The time I did have the crystal in "correctly", I lightly pressed the bezel (before putting on the insert), and nothing. Wouldn't spin.
5. Then I broke the bezel insert at 4:00.
6. I have assembled countless Seiko watches with ease (for the most part), but this watch is from hell. 2 sets of hands. I broke the keyworks on the first movement. 2 crystals, now the bezel. I can't win with this one, so I'm convinced I need to learn on this one since it's still nice, but essentially a dumpster fire of a timepiece.




If you could shed some light on what I could be doing wrong, I'd be so unbelievably grateful. It's driving me nuts. I'd also be happy to post any pictures that would lead you to why I'm a complete mess up with this thing...

Thank you so much.

I'm not an expert and certainly not the definitive source on putting these together, but I've found that popping the crystal into the crystal gasket before putting the two on the watch allows you to get the crystal aboard relatively easily. You can turn the crystal and gasket from there to align the cyclops. The retaining ring goes next, and you can further refine the position of the cyclops before pressing down on the retaining ring to sort of pre-lock everything in place before using the press to fully seat the retaining ring.

Once that's in place, add the tiniest dabs of grease (I use lithium, but others can chime in with what's recommended) on top of the ball bearings and click. Ensure that you have the Hytrel gasket (or fishing line) installed, and press the bezel on while rotating to ensure it doesn't bind and mess up the gasket/fishing line. If you can't press it on by hand, fashion a bezel die (shown in @KJ2020's original post) and press it on.

From your picture, it looks like your gasket is messed up near where the bezel insert cracked. It also looks like the gasket is installed directly behind the insert instead of in the groove where it goes on the bezel. I can't be certain, but maybe check that out. It may be why the insert cracked.

 

[m5750]

but I've found that popping the crystal into the crystal gasket before putting the two on the watch allows you to get the crystal aboard relatively easily.

When the crystal arrived, the gasket was around it. I took it off, probably like a fool and here it is. I feel I understand what you're saying.

The retaining ring goes next, and you can further refine the position of the cyclops before pressing down on the retaining ring to sort of pre-lock everything in place before using the press to fully seat the retaining ring.

The ring.....This is where I think I get lost. I can push it on/press it on and it seems fine. Then the springs/bezel goes on, right? That's where it's TIGHT. As soon as I press the bezel over it, it won't move. Solid as a rock.

Ensure that you have the Hytrel gasket (or fishing line) installed, and press the bezel on while rotating to ensure it doesn't bind and mess up the gasket/fishing line. If you can't press it on by hand, fashion a bezel die (shown in @KJ2020's original post) and press it on.

I'm posting some more pics. I think the Hytrel gasket is in place (in the bezel itself?). I've been setting the bezel down after installing the springs/bearings, then using a press. It's tight and I can almost tell immediately that it won't move.

From your picture, it looks like your gasket is messed up near where the bezel insert cracked. It also looks like the gasket is installed directly behind the insert instead of in the groove where it goes on the bezel.

This....I'm wondering if it's in the wrong place completely?

Here are a few more pics. Not sure if they'll help:




As you can see, the gasket and the retaining ring stay fixed to the bezel when I pop it off. I don't feel that should happen?

 

[KJ2020]

Crystal gasket, crystal, THEN retaining ring.

Install click springs, click and balls.

Hytrel ring in bezel groove, press bezel without insert installed.

Make sure bezel is rotating properly. If not, fix it before proceeding any further, unless you accept that it won't rotate.

Last, adhere or press fit the insert.

You mentioned that you installed a different crystal. If you also installed a different crystal gasket, it may be thicker than the original. This can cause the retaining ring to bulge out and impede bezel rotation. Crystal gaskets can be thinned (or shortened in height) easily and quickly to correct these types of issues.

Crystal gasket shave - DIY

If a bezel won't rotate, first thing I try is removing the hytrel ring and see if it rotates then. You don't need the click, or springs and balls to do this test. If it rotates without the hytrel ring, that's probably the issue. You may have mangled it or installed it upside down.

You can thin one by sanding it lightly with some worn 400 grit or 600 grit sandpaper. Just don't stretch it out while sanding it. A mangled section can just be cut away, as much as 10mm or so.

This is how nearly all current hytrel rings should be installed. The bottom (wider) "step" goes up, toward the insert.

I don't bother much with hytrel rings anymore if there is a rotation issue. I go straight to fishline, which works very well as long as you are a little patient in finding a proper diameter.