How to replace crystal (or remove bezel) on 116710LN clone?

[freddy333]

But this type of bezel, no grease, no bezel tension ring and your difficulty removing it all call into question the provenance of the watch. It's not a stretch to think it's not a CLEAN. I've removed many dozens of bezels and the only ones that were hard, I mean next to impossible but I ultimately prevailed, were from BP factory. Also your retaining ring is taller, thicker and more solid than a CLEAN's (good thing) and your insert looks like a BP (bad thing). I can't see your insert clearly but an older model BP '1' numeral is a certain tell. The BP 1 serif tip is angled, just like this forum text font you see here. On gen and later model rep inserts the 1 serif tip is perfectly vertical and parallel to the main shaft. A BP insert cannot compare to a CLEAN insert, which is the best ever made.

What is the serial number on your case? And the bracelet clasp code?

VERY helpful info, KJ. The watch I got from Andrew is described as a 'GMF Factory V5 Edition' & has no serial on the case. Here are pics of the engravings between the lugs & clasp --



Although the bezel on this watch functioned/felt good, (the underside of) it does not look anything like the gen bezel. So I have been considering whether I should replace it with an aftermarket bezel that more closely mirrors the gen. Any thoughts or specific recommendations for a replacement bezel?

 

[asusundevils1971]

The serial number is located at the six position on the rehaut.

 

[freddy333]

The serial number is located at the six position on the rehaut.

Sorry, my mistake (used to working on vintage models) --

 

[freddy333]

I can't see your insert clearly but an older model BP '1' numeral is a certain tell. The BP 1 serif tip is angled, just like this forum text font you see here. On gen and later model rep inserts the 1 serif tip is perfectly vertical and parallel to the main shaft. A BP insert cannot compare to a CLEAN insert, which is the best ever made.

Your comment regarding the '1' is a bit perplexing? I am comparing several gen inserts to mine (from Andrew) & although the characters & spacing between pairs of numbers on the gen insert is slightly narrower & the length of the serif is a bit shorter, I do not see any other obvious differences in the serifs on 1s?

 

[KJ2020]

VERY helpful info, KJ. The watch I got from Andrew is described as a 'GMF Factory V5 Edition' & has no serial on the case. Here are pics of the engravings between the lugs & clasp --


Although the bezel on this watch functioned/felt good, it does not look anything like the gen bezel. So I have been considering whether I should replace it with an aftermarket bezel that more closely mirrors the gen. Any thoughts or specific recommendations for a replacement bezel?

Sorry, for some reason I thought you had a CLEAN. GMF and BP are partner factories that sell more or less identical reps except that GMF uses 904L steel while BP uses 316F. There is nothing wrong with your bezel, in fact generally GMF bezels will operate better than a CLEAN. I have several GMFs too (and some BPs) and am happy with them.

What I have found with BP/GMF bezels is they have thicker bezel gaskets (hytrel ring). So when the factory installs them, it has to be that they are installed more like a gen bezel is. That is, the crystal and crystal gasket are placed on the case first. Then the bezel with hytrel and click ring in place is placed under (not over) the retaining ring, so there is no possible damage to the hytrel, and no forcing of the hytrel over the retaining ring lip. Then, the retaining ring is pressed over the crystal gasket, carrying the bezel (and click ring) with it. The insert is likely installed last, to make this sequence safer and easier. This is why they are so hard to remove - the bezel can't get past the thicker hytrel without bringing the retaining ring with it, and the retaining ring is on too tightly to let go by prying up on the outer bezel edges.

I have used this (re)-installation technique a few times and it's fine but can be harder to manage. Keeping all the parts aligned can be a challenge on both a Sub and a GMT. Also you can't see for certain when the retaining ring is fully down to the case all the way around. And you need the perfect metal die to miss the crystal, catch the retaining ring top edge, and miss the bezel. You can't press on the bezel at all if the insert is installed, or even if it's not, pressing the bezel won't help because it won't carry the retaining ring with it. Additionally a very strong and precise press is needed to set the retaining ring over the crystal gasket.

So for these reasons we generally press bezels over the retaining ring. This can damage the hytrels leading to many different solution ideas. My favorite is using fishline, which I use exclusively now when the need arises.

Using fishline as a hytrel ring

 

[KJ2020]

Your comment regarding the '1' are a bit perplexing? I am comparing several gen inserts to mine (from Andrew) & although the characters & spacing between pairs of numbers on the gen insert is slightly narrower & the length of the serif is a bit shorter, I do not see any other obvious differences in the serifs on 1s?

Your insert is fine. Here are some pics of earlier GMFs. Note the 1 numeral serif tips. They are angled, not straight and parallel and I noted before.

 

[geoffdragon]

Ah the old thick "plastic" hytrel ring causing all the problems ....who would have thought it.....

 

[freddy333]

Your insert is fine. Here are some pics of earlier GMFs. Note the 1 numeral serif tips. They are angled, not straight and parallel and I noted before.

I am probably thicker than the characters on my insert -- But, other than the serifs on the 1s in your pics being more or less straight, versus the slight curvature to the serifs in gens & my insert, I am not sure I see the 'angled' aspect? Though, as you have said my insert is fine, we may be saying the same thing at this point.

 

[freddy333]

UPDATE --

Turns out that my insert was fastened to the bezel with adhesive rather than being press-fit, which, once I locate the bezel adhesive to reinstall it, will make reassembly MUCH less risky or difficult. As it is, having cleaned out all of the adhesive, the insert can be pressed-in by hand & pushed out with only moderate (finger) pressure.

To maintain a 'clone' level of similarity, I would prefer the insert to be pressed-in, but since it looks the same from the outside (it certainly fooled me), I am willing to trade an easy/safe re-installation procedure for absolute adherence to the gen form, especially since I can now see what is going on below the insert & therefore more easily align it with a greater degree of confidence.


And thanks, KJ (and all), for your input, which helps to clarify what I am dealing with here.

 

[geoffdragon]

@freddy333 here you go....a picture tells a thousand words

 

[freddy333]

A couple more questions --

1- Does the bezel gasket look ok to reuse?


2- Knowing that I am working with the 'GMF Factory V5', is there a reason NOT to use the gen crystal gasket (measures ~2.6) versus 1 of Clark's (bottom 3 in plastic)?

 

[KJ2020]

UPDATE --

Turns out that my insert was fastened to the bezel with adhesive rather than being press-fit, which, once I locate the bezel adhesive to reinstall it, will make reassembly MUCH less risky or difficult. As it is, having cleaned out all of the adhesive, the insert can be pressed-in by hand & pushed out with only moderate (finger) pressure.

To maintain a 'clone' level of similarity, I would prefer the insert to be pressed-in, but since it looks the same from the outside (it certainly fooled me), I am willing to trade an easy/safe re-installation procedure for absolute adherence to the gen form, especially since I can now see what is going on below the insert & therefore more easily align it with a greater degree of confidence.


And thanks, KJ (and all), for your input, which helps to clarify what I am dealing with here.

5 PCS 3M ADHESIVE RINGS STICKER FOR ROLEX SUBMARINER GMT CERAMIC BEZEL INSERT | eBay

We are not affiliated with Rolex Watch USA Inc. Fit Rolex Models The item for sale is 5 Adhesive 3M pre cut rings for Bezel Insert Ceramic, Plastic or Aluminum bezel watch which make it easier for neat and clean job.

www.ebay.com

Cheers, KJ

 

[KJ2020]

A couple more questions --

1- Does the bezel gasket look ok to reuse?


2- Knowing that I am working with the 'GMF Factory V5', is there a reason NOT to use the gen crystal gasket (measures ~2.6) versus 1 of Clark's (bottom 3 in plastic)?

Gen B25-295-CAR-C1 gasket is 2.7mm. You should be able to use it. Check level of date mag and crystal sitting height with a test fit. Bezel gasket looks fine.

 

[freddy333]

Cheers, KJ

Ordered. Thank you!

 

[freddy333]

Gen B25-295-CAR-C1 gasket is 2.7mm. You should be able to use it. Check level of date mag and crystal sitting height with a test fit. Bezel gasket looks fine.

If I recall in my reading of your tutorial (& other relevant RWI threads), the bezel system -- crystal/crystal gasket, wavy retainer ring, 3-pin click-spring & bezel -- can be installed onto the case (& easily removed by hand?) without the bezel gasket for test-fitting. Correct?

 

[KJ2020]

If I recall in my reading of your tutorial (& other relevant RWI threads), the bezel system -- crystal/crystal gasket, wavy retainer ring, 3-pin click-spring & bezel -- can be installed onto the case (& easily removed by hand?) without the bezel gasket for test-fitting. Correct?

Yes indeed. You don't need the crystal retaining ring on to evaluate date mag and crystal sitting height. Just crystal, crystal gasket, bezel tension ring & click ring as applicable (for correct final bezel height) and bezel with insert in place (even if insert is just loose fit).

You might find some of these threads useful

6-digit Sub crystal and bezel swap

6-digit GMT bezel install sequence

Which crystal gasket should I use?

 

[freddy333]

UPDATE --

Failure!

After verifying correct bezel height/date magnification, I pressed the wavy retaining ring on, but either my die slipped off the edge of the retaining ring or the ring itself bent & slid out of alignment within the die. In any case, Fortunately, I was able to remove the retaining ring, the crystal is fine & it came with a 2nd crystal gasket. So I will need to source another wavy retaining ring & find a better fitting die or pressing procedure.

 

[freddy333]

You might find some of these threads useful
6-digit Sub crystal and bezel swap
6-digit GMT bezel install sequence
Which crystal gasket should I use?

Very helpful, but I have been through them many times. Thanks!

Even incomplete & with the bezel just sitting on top of the case (I may have to use 1 of the incoming adhesive pieces to tack the bezel down so I can wear this thing until I can source/install another wavy retainer ring), I have to say that this thing is already quite a looker. Even without its bracelet, it exceeds my old 116710LN franken & just feels gen. Admittedly, what you see through the window is gen, so it should have that feel, But still --

 

[TonyMonatana44]

UPDATE --

Failure!

After verifying correct bezel height/date magnification, I pressed the wavy retaining ring on, but either my die slipped off the edge of the retaining ring or the ring itself bent & slid out of alignment within the die. In any case, Fortunately, I was able to remove the retaining ring, the crystal is fine & it came with a 2nd crystal gasket. So I will need to source another wavy retaining ring & find a better fitting die or pressing procedure.

Shoot me a PM I will send you one for free. Just pay the shipping. @mods - Please let me know if this is allowed or If I still have to get this approved through the sales thread.

 

[P..DR..D]

Shoot me a PM I will send you one for free. Just pay the shipping. @mods - Please let me know if this is allowed or If I still have to get this approved through the sales thread.

What you do via PM is between the 2 of you, but the default advice is for any deal involving money/items changing hands, sales threads are recommended but only certified members can create those.