I have read many posts that say order the A2836 because of you order the Swiss 2836 it will probably be a clone anyway. I thought BK swapped in a new ETA from ofrei. So. all he does is QC and some minor mods...if necessary? So if I just buy a well made V6 from a TD and it passes full QC, can I sell it on the m2m sales section for $200 higher than I paid?
BK told me he opens every single watch to verify that the movement is new and genuine Swiss. So not likely you'll receive an Asian movement if you order from him. I want to say its safe to assume he knows how to differentiate between an Asian clone and gen Swiss 2836
Did he say anything about personally installing a new Swiss movement? It doesn't say that on his section....just says he does realignment work IF required. Personally, I think he gets his Chinese dealer to send him very good QC'd watches - so he doesn't have to do any rework himself (only as required). My first sub was from BK.
First and foremost, I think its only fair to say that when a TD tells us something, that it's the generally the truth (however, this definitely isn't always the case...) So for the sake of clarifying terminologies, when I refer to the term "fact" in the remainder of this post, this is to include anything verbally communicated by the TD's....but as we all know, this assumption isn't a guarantee in all circumstances; and if you ever feel that circumstance applies to whatever situation you happen to be pondering on, you must have proof or some form of irrefutable logic before insinuating anything even remotely contrary: something I feel many forum posters do not think about prior to typing their postings. The majority of negative speculations made by members here seem to be completely subjective in logic. Now, to my intended message:
I just purchased a Sub-C V6 from BK and, at an attempt to separate the speculation from the facts, I specifically addressed the issue about whether or not he performs mods to all his watches, or just to the watches that he deems necessary.
MY MESSAGE to BK:
''And this is the V6 model correct? Did you end up having to mod anything? ...<remainder of message content removed for purposes of brevity and contextual relevance>''
HIS RSPONSE:
''yes v6, I always have to mod it, tightening the bezel, swapping in a 2.3mm crystal gasket, remove the cyclops' AR, line up the cyclop to the date window (which sometimes involves completely reglueing the cyclop), etc. You really get a lot of value buying my watches.''
Its right there in black-and-white, guys. He said he ALWAYS has to mod the watches. Since that is the information that came directly from him, we must consider his word as factual until someone has evidence to prove otherwise. Even if the watch comes straight from factory being perfectly aligned, perfect bezel tension, etc, and there is nothing he needs to adjust, he still swaps out the crystal gasket. So at a very minimum, he has to do *something*. Which proves he’s not just a middleman. (this applies only to the Sub-C's that he sells, as that is the product being referred to in my inquiry - to assume this for all models and styles would create a contextual bias error, something unacceptable.)
Now, if you are sticking to your claim that he does not do anything at all to most of his subs and that he just orders them and them ships them to us at premium, then what you’re saying is that his statement to me above is not the truth; and if you are sticking to the claim, then you need to have proof to show to back it up; such as an email from him to you stating that he didn't do a single thing to your sub. If you are unable to provide this proof, then you should not be speculating on the validity of what he says. What you say on here has a huge impact on consumer confidence levels, and unless you know something for sure, you shouldn't say it. Who knows how much money they lose because of all the doubt that negative speculation has placed in the minds of potential buyers who come here to do their due diligent research; but more importantly, the customer will lose out on a service that they likely would have cherished otherwise.
If you ARE able to provide this proof, however, then you should consolidate the evidence you have and blast away. Or, if you're a passive person, discretely have the TD addressed regarding the discrepancies of their statements. Personally, I'm a Rambo fan. Need not say more. But again, you only do this if you have the evidence to back it...and you'd better be fully confident in the weight that your evidence can hold....But even then you’re likely to still take heat for it from veterans of the community. I recently did this, and nobody argued the facts that I presented, because they..well..couldn't... but I still got flamed for shaking the pedestal (mostly just pissed I wouldn't name the dealer, which I would have, but couldn't, because I accepted the watch and never addressed the issue to the seller, which in hind sight, it was probably my social responsibility to the community to do so. However, my negligence of responsibility doesn't mean that people shouldn't be aware of the shady things that can potentially happen to them.
Now, back to BK. Regarding my impressions of him so far: I’m quite satisfied with his customer service. I ordered my watch from him at the very last minute, as I'm leaving for South America in 2 weeks. I informed him of the details to my agenda, and he told me that he would front load my order to the top of his rework list so that I could have it prior to my departure. I gladly would have paid the $100-ish premium for the expedited turn-around-time alone. Yes, its only $100, not $200-300 like others have been stating – again, stick to facts, not assumptions. If you go on Toro’s website, you’ll see what he charges for a Noob V6 Sub-C. It comes out to $368 + $180 for swiss movement (which is what BK sells.) Total cost comes out to $548 (then don’t forget shipping). Not sure of the cost from other TD’s, I’m guessing its in the same ballpark. BK charged me approximately $653 shipped. Simple math...The difference is less than $100 after shipping costs are included. I can already see someone trying to argue with what I just said by saying something like "UH! YOU'RE STUPID! HE DOESN'T BUY FROM OTHER TD'S HE BUYS FROM FACTORY AND MAKES WAY MORE THAN $100!" Well, my pre-planned response to that is the following:
You absolutely can not compare the residual dollar values of his sale prices and his COGS. He's a dealer. You are an end consumer. The only comparison that you're allowed to make is the relationship against his selling prices vs the selling prices of other TD's for the same product. Whatever that difference is, that is the value that you're paying for his extra modifications. Valuations of additional services are NEVER to be quantified by total profit margins. THAT'S STUPID.
-Pasha