ARF silently released new 16610LN's and 16610LV's

[Geonor]

RAF?

The RAF ARF thing is a clusterfuck to be honest. This spring some 16610s popped up under the factory RAF, mine was one the V1s and arrived with ARF stickers for some reason. I upgraded mine with a VS crystal, crown and movement cause they were shit.

A couple of months later a new batch showed up with an updated better crystal, date wheel and crown fitment, still under the ARF banner.

Then these ARFs showed up later with a better movement, better inserts, flat 4, better crystal, date wheel and all that.

In good old replica fashion they can't get everything right in a single batch of watches so now the issue isn't the date wheel or crystal, but the lume on the hands/dial.

It's just par for the course that something isn't right. Learn to live with it or get it fixed.

 

[Nickyan]

Is this lume mismatch present in all 4 versions of the ARF? Black & Green, with and without rehaut engraving?

 

[mclarendude]

I wouldn't be surprised if it is just on the LV variants.

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Hi everyone, nice to read your opinion and experience about the watch here.

I have been looking for the Sub 16610 for a while. I like the rolex sub 16610 from the 1980 - 1990, it gives me a vintage feeling.

Through this forum I have been in contact with several reliable sellers, such as Intime, Trusty Time, and Chazing
I would like to order this watch, but I don't know which one is the best choice. I would also like to buy an extra green fabric watch strap. Do you have any tips or suggestions for purchasing? I look forward to your response.

This whole thread that you are writing this on is filled with good input for you to make your choice.

Been out of touch for a month or so, received mine a while back but just got home to open it and take a look. Looks and feels like a 16610 LV canal street special with an SH 3135. Bezel wobbles, feels, turns and clicks terribly skipping 3-5 clicks. The sides of the bracelet look like they were hit with a belt sander. Pip and hand lume is a different color than the dial dots. I'm entirely unimpressed. I've learned from this purchase to be more careful in the future of the pump and dump hysteria.

That's a VR3135 and the correct caseback gasket. You got an ARF, a bad one, but an ARF. As KJ said, a lot of these things can be fixed. Sucks that we have to fix them, but that's how the game is, right?

 

[mclarendude]

It's worth to recap the following:

• ARF: Replicates MK1, lime green bezel with flat four. Has VR3135 movement. "New ARF". Correct caseback gasket. Unmatched lume.
• RAF: Replicates MK5, with MK5 dial and forest green bezel. Has SH3135 movement. Can ship with ARF stickers still. Incorrect caseback gasket, not WR from factory. Matching lume.

Both are great watches, depending what route you want, MK1 or MK5.

After having the ARF first, with the Lime bezel, I couldn't keep the RAF.

Having both; Differences in feel are somewhat minimal, the bracelet on the ARF feels better. Bezel action is the same. Some RAF have the crown not meeting the case when screwed in.

 

[mcboom]

@Geonor & @mclarendude thank you both for your excellent input. I think we have an idea of the variations now until the next release

 

[KJ2020]

KJ2020
Thanks for the input man, appreciate the insights and links into possible fixes and the explanation on the bracelet. I'll tackle the bezel issues but the lume is beyond my skill set and something I can probably live with. Any ideas where to get extra links for this bracelet?

Here's a better lume shot

If you want to consider it I would swap to the RAF dial and hands, period correct be damned. All TDs can get parts if they are available, some are more willing than others.

Put up a WTB for links - specify the exact model and type (hollow, solid, polished or not) and number you need. Also your location. Someone may have some extras and just give them to you.

 

[pompompurin]

I bought the latest ARF 16610 LN and I superfrankened it today.

Pros
1. The crystal retainer feels much sturdier and stronger than the RAF one (which couldn't even friction fit the bezel securely after reinstalling the bezel for less than 3 times. YMMV)
2. The tube is now the same one as vsf and clean, which has 2 gaskets in the front of the tube like gen. However, there is no gasket between the case and tube and the tube shape isn't like a gen spec 7030 triplock tube. Nonetheless, i was able to fit a small gasket between the tube and the case to mimic a triplock system.
3. The crystal has a better halo effect than RAF and older ARF crystal. The LEC is very invisible, unlike early ARF crystals.
4. It comes with VR3135 right out of the box, which has better date fonts and is more reliable than the sh3135. And better yet, the vr3135 is the older version without hidden regulating pins which allows easier regulation.
5. The seconds hand looks thin like gen
6. The watch appears to accept all of my gen parts without problem, except for the gen seconds hand which requires slightly (reversible) crimping because vr3135 and v3186 have slightly smaller diameter seconds wheel.

Cons
1. The crystal retainer is missing a gasket beneath. This has been a recurring problem since JF to ARF and RAF. I don't understand how these factories can cheap-out and forget or omit from installing this gasket.
2. The pearl on my insert is seriously misaligned
3. The number "2" in "20" on the insert is hooked too much

 

[KJ2020]

I bought the latest ARF 16610 LN and I superfrankened it today.

Pros
1. The crystal retainer feels much sturdier and stronger than the RAF one (which couldn't even friction fit the bezel securely after reinstalling the bezel for less than 3 times. YMMV)
2. The tube is now the same one as vsf and clean, which has 2 gaskets in the front of the tube like gen. However, there is no gasket between the case and tube and the tube shape isn't like a gen spec 7030 triplock tube. Nonetheless, i was able to fit a small gasket between the tube and the case to mimic a triplock system.
3. The crystal has a better halo effect than RAF and older ARF crystal. The LEC is very invisible, unlike early ARF crystals.
4. It comes with VR3135 right out of the box, which has better date fonts and is more reliable than the sh3135. And better yet, the vr3135 is the older version without hidden regulating pins which allows easier regulation.
5. The seconds hand looks thin like gen
6. The watch appears to accept all of my gen parts without problem, except for the gen seconds hand which requires slightly (reversible) crimping because vr3135 and v3186 have slightly smaller diameter seconds wheel.

Cons
1. The crystal retainer is missing a gasket beneath. This has been a recurring problem since JF to ARF and RAF. I don't understand how these factories can cheap-out and forget or omit from installing this gasket.
2. The pearl on my insert is seriously misaligned
3. The number "2" in "20" on the insert is hooked too much

What no pics bro?

Haha, great review, like your skillzzz...

 

[mclarendude]

@pompompurin reported for the lack of pictures.

 

[pompompurin]

What no pics bro?

Haha, great review, like your skilzzz...

Haha ok here they are lol

Finished product

- Gen dial
- Gen hands
- Gen date disc
- Gen insert
- Gen crystal
- Gen crown
- Added missing gaskets (for tube and crystal retainer)
- Modified the clickspring's tension and tip so that the bezel clicks are even more satisfying
- Regulated movement



The seriously misaligned pearl and hooked 2



The missing gasket beneath the crystal retainer



The added gasket between the case and tube to mimic the full triplock system

 

[mclarendude]

The added gasket between the case and tube to mimic the full triplock system

PM sent for the slipper missing a foot.

 

[pompompurin]

PM sent for the slipper missing a foot.

I think it has become part of my work uniform. I think there has been countless times I have taken watch pics with the slippers in it

 

[krizzy]

PM sent for the slipper missing a foot.

Which Factory?

 

[GMTFanboy]

Haha ok here they are lol

Finished product

- Gen dial
- Gen hands
- Gen date disc
- Gen insert
- Gen crystal
- Gen crown
- Added missing gaskets (for tube and crystal retainer)
- Modified the clickspring's tension and tip so that the bezel clicks are even more satisfying
- Regulated movement



The seriously misaligned pearl and hooked 2



The missing gasket beneath the crystal retainer



The added gasket between the case and tube to mimic the full triplock system

So can you confirm that the tube is slightly curved? Also, the GEN crown fit on the existing tube? Did you use the same stem or a new one? Did you have to trim it if so?

 

[KJ2020]

Haha ok here they are lol

Finished product

- Gen dial
- Gen hands
- Gen date disc
- Gen insert
- Gen crystal
- Gen crown
- Added missing gaskets (for tube and crystal retainer)
- Modified the clickspring's tension and tip so that the bezel clicks are even more satisfying
- Regulated movement



The seriously misaligned pearl and hooked 2



The missing gasket beneath the crystal retainer



The added gasket between the case and tube to mimic the full triplock system

Beautiful work as always bro. I hope you're going to hold on to this one, for a while at least. You deserve to enjoy it.

 

[pompompurin]

So can you confirm that the tube is slightly curved? Also, the GEN crown fit on the existing tube? Did you use the same stem or a new one? Did you have to trim it if so?

Please elaborate on what do you mean by the "tube is slightly curved"

Gen crown fits the stock tube.

I used the same stem and no trimming.

 

[pompompurin]

Beautiful work as always bro. I hope you're going to hold on to this one, for a while at least. You deserve to enjoy it.

bought it out of curiosity and i hoarded various gen parts including 3 gen dials. Now that my curiosity of the latest ARF has been satisfied, I will sell it haha

 

[GMTFanboy]

Please elaborate on what do you mean by the "tube is slightly curved"

Gen crown fits the stock tube.

I used the same stem and no trimming.

My crown is not flush with the case, and I was told it is because of the shape of the tube on this v2. Apologies! Didn’t know how to best describe it.

Did you have a gap between case and crown on yours before you did work? I’m just curious if going Gen will cure this problem

 

[pompompurin]

My crown is not flush with the case, and I was told it is because of the shape of the tube on this v2. Apologies! Didn’t know how to best describe it.

Did you have a gap between case and crown on yours before you did work? I’m just curious if going Gen will cure this problem

lol that's ok. The tube in my watch is parallel and straight.

FYI, the gen crown and stock rep crown does not sit flush against the case either. This is as expected because there should be a small gap between the crown and the case when the crown is fully screwed in. This applies for gens as well. In fact, no screw-in crowns should ever sit flush against the case because that does not ensure full waterproofing

 

[KJ2020]

bought it out of curiosity and i hoarded various gen parts including 3 gen dials. Now that my curiosity of the latest ARF has been satisfied, I will sell it haha

Heh, I figured as much. Someone's going to get an awesome piece for sure.

Hey I'm curious about lume on the LN - can you comment on its quality? Mainly wondering if the hands and dial lume match. I'm sure you've seen the LV mismatch in both daylight and dark environments.