ZF RM55, new super clone movement

[BIONONE]

To be honest the answer "nothing can be done about it - they tried everything" oftentimes refers to the fact that they (ZF in this case) already ordered hundreds if not thousands of these movements or at least signed contracts with the movement factories.

The same applied to this weird trend of releasing V1, V2, Vx up to V11 etc. It was not always about getting closer to gen with a new version but about to implement new parts from new suppliers or of different production methods. To account for differences between batches it was easier to market it as an upgrade in one way while being silent about small downgrades. This whole game is not just plug and play on repeat. It is still illegal and so many variables have to work together to give us releases like we're witnessing right now.

That does not mean that future batches will suffer from the same defects. As long as the stock lasts we have to live with painted ribs while getting the most gen like case we've ever seen so far.

Just remember where we started with RM reps...

 

[Stuvetjee]

How come YSF and RMF have the movement polished then?

Your guess is as good as mine

Okay, imma break this down for ya lads

The movement cage of the gen RM is made from grade 5 titanium if i remember correctly. This means the base metal color always appears silverish. After they powdercoat the entire cage black/dark grey, they put it in a cnc mill which is set to 0.001mm to shave off the top powdercoated layer on the ribs. After this step the movement RMUL etc. prints are applied with the pad printer.

Now since ZF doesn't use a titanium cage base (rather alloy or brass), the coating cannot be shaved off. Because that would expose the brass/alloy gold colored material. Plating afterwards also wont help and will damage the powdercoating.

my analysis on the RMF model is that they plated the cage firstly to a titanium/silver look and later sprayed the entire cage with the ribs being masked.

 

[Reaps]

Okay, imma break this down for ya lads

The movement cage of the gen RM is made from grade 5 titanium if i remember correctly. This means the base metal color always appears silverish. After they powdercoat the entire cage black/dark grey, they put it in a cnc mill which is set to 0.001mm to shave off the top powdercoated layer on the ribs. After this step the movement RMUL etc. prints are applied with the pad printer.

Now since ZF doesn't use a titanium cage base (rather alloy or brass), the coating cannot be shaved off. Because that would expose the brass/alloy gold colored material. Plating afterwards also wont help and will damage the powdercoating.

my analysis on the RMF model is that they plated the cage firstly to a titanium/silver look and later sprayed the entire cage with the ribs being masked.

Always love learning new stuff about real watches. This post also helped me gain a tad more appreciation for RM. I know how painful it is to CNC 0.0001mm off of anything lol. Thank you for your insight sir.

 

[Stuvetjee]

Always love learning new stuff about real watches. This post also helped me gain a tad more appreciation for RM. I know how painful it is to CNC 0.0001mm off of anything lol. Thank you for your insight sir.

well i said 0.0001mm but take that with a pinch of salt lol. who knows maybe its less. Not sure how many microns the powdercoat.

 

[Th4ySoN]

Movement is lubricated/ essentially serviced though, so for a grand I see they actually give you a proper serviced watch.
Unfortunately the movement is brass, so to brush the ribs it'd need to be stripped then plated, I imagine thales won't be easy without effecting the black or the writing.

RM55 to be like Gen;

● Ribs on main-plate/ Balance bridge/ train bridge/ motion works bridge need brushing.
● Pallet bridge needs reshaping then refinishing.
● All wheels need refinishing.
● Balance/ bridge needs replacing with free-sprung.
● Setting lever needs brushing/ bevelling and black polishing.
● Hack needs black polishing (both parts).
● Screws need refinishing.
● On gen the screw holes have polished steel inserts/ tubes with threaded interior, rep does not. (Biggest tell for people that know RMs)
● Setting lever spring locating posts on rep main-plate need to be bevelled and polished.
● Escape wheel jewel should be larger in diameter and capped.
● Jewels should all be flush with the surface of the movement.
● Train bridge a little too thin.
● On bottom right rib doesn’t extend all the way to one side like they do on gen.

(The vaucher caliber has all these things addressed and correct)


The info above was supplied by my friend and local watchmaker @Stevetick. Enjoy.!

 

[Th4ySoN]

well i said 0.0001mm but take that with a pinch of salt lol. who knows maybe its less. Not sure how many microns the powdercoat.

If I’m not wrong RM tolerances are 80 microns or 0.08mm, idk if applies to the coating.

 

[greenbeans]

Movement is lubricated/ essentially serviced though, so for a grand I see they actually give you a proper serviced watch.
Unfortunately the movement is brass, so to brush the ribs it'd need to be stripped then plated, I imagine thales won't be easy without effecting the black or the writing.

RM55 to be like Gen;

● Ribs on main-plate/ Balance bridge/ train bridge/ motion works bridge need brushing.
● Pallet bridge needs reshaping then refinishing.
● All wheels need refinishing.
● Balance/ bridge needs replacing with free-sprung.
● Setting lever needs brushing/ bevelling and black polishing.
● Hack needs black polishing (both parts).
● Screws need refinishing.
● On gen the screw holes have polished steel inserts/ tubes with threaded interior, rep does not. (Biggest tell for people that know RMs)
● Setting lever spring locating posts on rep main-plate need to be bevelled and polished.
● Escape wheel jewel should be larger in diameter and capped.
● Jewels should all be flush with the surface of the movement.
● Train bridge a little too thin.
● On bottom right rib doesn’t extend all the way to one side like they do on gen.

(The vaucher caliber has all these things addressed and correct)


The info above was supplied by my friend and local watchmaker @Stevetick. Enjoy.!

wow great post, thanks, v valuable info. Shows that while this ZF is a great step forward, there are still big improvements to be made. Hope we get a mass produced vaucher clone at some point

 

[seanizcool]

Movement is lubricated/ essentially serviced though, so for a grand I see they actually give you a proper serviced watch.
Unfortunately the movement is brass, so to brush the ribs it'd need to be stripped then plated, I imagine thales won't be easy without effecting the black or the writing.

RM55 to be like Gen;

● Ribs on main-plate/ Balance bridge/ train bridge/ motion works bridge need brushing.
● Pallet bridge needs reshaping then refinishing.
● All wheels need refinishing.
● Balance/ bridge needs replacing with free-sprung.
● Setting lever needs brushing/ bevelling and black polishing.
● Hack needs black polishing (both parts).
● Screws need refinishing.
● On gen the screw holes have polished steel inserts/ tubes with threaded interior, rep does not. (Biggest tell for people that know RMs)
● Setting lever spring locating posts on rep main-plate need to be bevelled and polished.
● Escape wheel jewel should be larger in diameter and capped.
● Jewels should all be flush with the surface of the movement.
● Train bridge a little too thin.
● On bottom right rib doesn’t extend all the way to one side like they do on gen.

(The vaucher caliber has all these things addressed and correct)


The info above was supplied by my friend and local watchmaker @Stevetick. Enjoy.!

Great post, thank you to you and Steve

Think I might just pull the trigger, as much as the messed up ribs suck, I bet they look pretty good on the wrist

 

[DalePilledToo]

Quite intrigued by the price of it, finally a grey 55 !!!

Movement is lubricated/ essentially serviced though, so for a grand I see they actually give you a proper serviced watch.
Unfortunately the movement is brass, so to brush the ribs it'd need to be stripped then plated, I imagine thales won't be easy without effecting the black or the writing.

RM55 to be like Gen;

● Ribs on main-plate/ Balance bridge/ train bridge/ motion works bridge need brushing.
● Pallet bridge needs reshaping then refinishing.
● All wheels need refinishing.
● Balance/ bridge needs replacing with free-sprung.
● Setting lever needs brushing/ bevelling and black polishing.
● Hack needs black polishing (both parts).
● Screws need refinishing.
● On gen the screw holes have polished steel inserts/ tubes with threaded interior, rep does not. (Biggest tell for people that know RMs)
● Setting lever spring locating posts on rep main-plate need to be bevelled and polished.
● Escape wheel jewel should be larger in diameter and capped.
● Jewels should all be flush with the surface of the movement.
● Train bridge a little too thin.
● On bottom right rib doesn’t extend all the way to one side like they do on gen.

(The vaucher caliber has all these things addressed and correct)


The info above was supplied by my friend and local watchmaker @Stevetick. Enjoy.!

Looks fantastic

 

[5711]

They do but it's definitely not as obvious as on most reps including the ZF. I don't understand why rep makers work so hard to improve tiny details but release watches that have such a glaring flaw

I agree on the blue tint. I have the ZF bubba and the blue is very noticeable. But not a big issue at all.

 

[Reaps]

I think it's just down to cost. We are talking about a replica after all.

Let's say for example they sell about 1000 units of this ZF RM055. The extra/proper AR coating may cost them an extra $20 per crystal overall to do (estimate). That's $20,000 dollars. They'd rather pocket this money than improve it. We are talking business after all.

And for us people who are into replicas (as evident because we are on the forum deep diving into analysis of the replica) it bothers us, but let's be real, the 80% of people buying this replica won't really care that much.

 

[Tobel]

I think it's just down to cost. We are talking about a replica after all.

Let's say for example they sell about 1000 units of this ZF RM055. The extra/proper AR coating may cost them an extra $20 per crystal overall to do (estimate). That's $20,000 dollars. They'd rather pocket this money than improve it. We are talking business after all.

And for us people who are into replicas (as evident because we are on the forum deep diving into analysis of the replica) it bothers us, but let's be real, the 80% of people buying this replica won't really care that much.

I disagree. First of all as I said, rep factories are putting a lot of investment into much smaller details, think case, movement etc. And secondly there's plenty of rep crystals that have good AR coating that do not show such an obvious blue tint

 

[Reaps]

I disagree. First of all as I said, rep factories are putting a lot of investment into much smaller details, think case, movement etc. And secondly there's plenty of rep crystals that have good AR coating that do not show such an obvious blue tint

I do respect your opinion but at the end of the day we're at the mercy of the rep factory right? It's not like our opinions will change anything. Time has shown that replica factories will nail small details but then miss out on pretty obvious ones over and over again. And we are talking about ZF, the most infamous factory for skipping out on details lol.

 

[Reaps]

I disagree. First of all as I said, rep factories are putting a lot of investment into much smaller details, think case, movement etc. And secondly there's plenty of rep crystals that have good AR coating that do not show such an obvious blue tint

I'd like to further ask then : which Richard Mille replica do you think has the most accurate crystal suitable to your liking?

 

[WenR]

First of all, zf must fix the thickness of their product...
Zf (ntpt) vs cnc case (white)

You can see how bulky it is, cnc case is 13mm and zf is NOT 13.5mm (like its written at puretime )

 

[GiantSquid]

I'm pretty sure the ceramic models are supposed to be 12-12.5mm and the NTPTs are 13.5 in gen but I'm not certain about that offhand. That said, the NTPT does look bulkier than the ceramic pictured for sure.

 

[ark2506]

I'd like to further ask then : which Richard Mille replica do you think has the most accurate crystal suitable to your liking?

The BBR v2/v3 RM055 crystals have way less of a blue tint compared to the ZF. Like someone said above, regardless of detail, an overly blue tint on the crystal will be noticeable from close or far.

Considering swapping the crystals from my BBRs to my new ZF - anyone know if this is possible?

 

[Reaps]

The BBR v2/v3 RM055 crystals have way less of a blue tint compared to the ZF. Like someone said above, regardless of detail, an overly blue tint on the crystal will be noticeable from close or far.

Considering swapping the crystals from my BBRs to my new ZF - anyone know if this is possible?

I own a BBR v3 and the blue tint is very obvious. Mind you I haven't ever seen a gen RM055 so I can't evaluate how it is to gen.

 

[Tobel]

I'd like to further ask then : which Richard Mille replica do you think has the most accurate crystal suitable to your liking?

The pointbis not which RM rep has the best crystal, the point is why don't RM rep have good enough crystals like they exist for other reps

 

[DalePilledToo]

So whats the move here, fellas? If i dont want to pay $10k for a vaucher clone, im stuck with caked on painted ribs from zf or some weirdly shaped things from rmf or ysf..? Guess im shit out of luck for a nice 055 then :/