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Why buy gens?

pam63C

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I have rapidly grown my genuine collection for 1 reason.
Investments
- Guaranteed ROIs
- Closed loop security
- Can be sold anywhere in the world
- Can be recognized as an investment anywhere in the world

I use reps for day to day use, stuff I throw around and dont care.
Constrained supply of the watches considered as investment assets (by which you mean ROI) make this a different strategy to achieve. It is important to know that most watches are bad investments including complicated watches from PP and most non-Royal Oak watches from AP.

Buying at inflated market prices for the investment grade watches is not a wise move either.
 
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A330

You're Saying I Can Sell?
21/5/22
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Constrained supply of the watches considered as investment assets (by which you mean ROI) make this a different strategy to achieve. It is important to know that most watches are bad investments including complicated watches from PP and most non-Royal Oak watches from AP.

Buying at inflated market prices for the investment grade watches is not a wise move either.
I only buy Rolex watches from 3 local ADs, GMTs, Subs, Daytonas. Ill pop a pic around here sometime soon.
 
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Tim4682

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For me…i buy reps because tastes change and the initial buy decision is an impossible one: you buy something you touch for a few minutes at a shop and then wear a watch and realize it doesnt fit under your dress shirt, or is uncomfortably heavy (everyday is different than sitting in a showroom), or its too loud, or its uncomfortable while typing, literally anything…. Why spend 5k or 10k to have that realization later on that it isnt actually what you expected (living with the watch ,not that the rep isnt great quality) vs buying a rep and you can live with it for a year and decide: “i love this watch, i wear it all the time, its my go to, i feel as strongly now as i did when i bought it” or “i havent worn this in months, idk why, i just havent” or “i dont like wearing this because its too loud and the questions are annoying”, “i havent worn this in forever, no good reason i just havent”, etc etc etc. ive had all those feelings.

Ive been 100% sure i loved a watch and bought it and a year later realized i was wrong. I hated Panerai when i first started, i wanted loud and aggressive. I realized after going through a few reps, i hated them all and Panerai started growing on me and it became what I loved the most and now i have 5+.

you dont know what you dont know and thats the problem with anything you do the first time. Thats why I like reps. I could tell you today the 3 or 4 watches I would buy gen if i was going that route because ive had those exact rep watches for years and still love them so I would buy them Gen.

If i had bought gen from the beginning, i would have had A LOT of regret lol.

Another reason for me is caring…it REALLY bothers me when i hit my watch against something, or scratch it. I would be sooooo stressed out w a gen that i wouldnt enjoy wearing it as much. I own a couple gens and ive gotten used to the way i walk around and instinctively twist my arm around corners, etc to not hit stuff, but still stressful.

Just my 2 cents…
 

Got20Mate

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For me…i buy reps because tastes change and the initial buy decision is an impossible one: you buy something you touch for a few minutes at a shop and then wear a watch and realize it doesnt fit under your dress shirt, or is uncomfortably heavy (everyday is different than sitting in a showroom), or its too loud, or its uncomfortable while typing, literally anything…. Why spend 5k or 10k to have that realization later on that it isnt actually what you expected (living with the watch ,not that the rep isnt great quality) vs buying a rep and you can live with it for a year and decide: “i love this watch, i wear it all the time, its my go to, i feel as strongly now as i did when i bought it” or “i havent worn this in months, idk why, i just havent” or “i dont like wearing this because its too loud and the questions are annoying”, “i havent worn this in forever, no good reason i just havent”, etc etc etc. ive had all those feelings.

Ive been 100% sure i loved a watch and bought it and a year later realized i was wrong. I hated Panerai when i first started, i wanted loud and aggressive. I realized after going through a few reps, i hated them all and Panerai started growing on me and it became what I loved the most and now i have 5+.

you dont know what you dont know and thats the problem with anything you do the first time. Thats why I like reps. I could tell you today the 3 or 4 watches I would buy gen if i was going that route because ive had those exact rep watches for years and still love them so I would buy them Gen.

If i had bought gen from the beginning, i would have had A LOT of regret lol.

Another reason for me is caring…it REALLY bothers me when i hit my watch against something, or scratch it. I would be sooooo stressed out w a gen that i wouldnt enjoy wearing it as much. I own a couple gens and ive gotten used to the way i walk around and instinctively twist my arm around corners, etc to not hit stuff, but still stressful.

Just my 2 cents…
This is pretty insightful, spot on and very well put.
 

joeyc

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I'll tell you one reason.....

I recently SERIOUSLY considered purchasing one of the finest Tudor frankens I've ever seen.... and I mean VERY seriously. I already own a couple of decent frankens and have had them for over a decade. They are great watches.

The primary reason I didn't buy the watch was the fact I can buy a genuine remake for +/- $1k more. I'm currently on the prowl for the deal...

With that said, IF I ever sell the genuine, at present, I can sell the watch for a small profit. IF I ever tried to sell the franken I know I'd (more than likely) lose money. It'd also be harder to sell.

So there is one reason to purchase genuine...(albeit a unique situation)
Smart getting a tutor I highly recommend it
 

Powerfluff

You're Saying I Can Sell?
27/2/21
67
31
18
I got a OP36 rep to try while I wait on the wait list. I started not liking it after the first week. Months later I love it and now know 100% if I get the call I will pull the trigger now.

So it is great for a try before you buy situation. I recommend keeping it for 6months to see if you still like it. I tried the bb36 first but I didn't like it 100% in the end of the day and couldn't pull the trigger.
 

phelan771

You're Saying I Can Sell?
1/2/14
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55
18
For me…i buy reps because tastes change and the initial buy decision is an impossible one: you buy something you touch for a few minutes at a shop and then wear a watch and realize it doesnt fit under your dress shirt, or is uncomfortably heavy (everyday is different than sitting in a showroom), or its too loud, or its uncomfortable while typing, literally anything…. Why spend 5k or 10k to have that realization later on that it isnt actually what you expected (living with the watch ,not that the rep isnt great quality) vs buying a rep and you can live with it for a year and decide: “i love this watch, i wear it all the time, its my go to, i feel as strongly now as i did when i bought it” or “i havent worn this in months, idk why, i just havent” or “i dont like wearing this because its too loud and the questions are annoying”, “i havent worn this in forever, no good reason i just havent”, etc etc etc. ive had all those feelings.

Ive been 100% sure i loved a watch and bought it and a year later realized i was wrong. I hated Panerai when i first started, i wanted loud and aggressive. I realized after going through a few reps, i hated them all and Panerai started growing on me and it became what I loved the most and now i have 5+.

you dont know what you dont know and thats the problem with anything you do the first time. Thats why I like reps. I could tell you today the 3 or 4 watches I would buy gen if i was going that route because ive had those exact rep watches for years and still love them so I would buy them Gen.

If i had bought gen from the beginning, i would have had A LOT of regret lol.

Another reason for me is caring…it REALLY bothers me when i hit my watch against something, or scratch it. I would be sooooo stressed out w a gen that i wouldnt enjoy wearing it as much. I own a couple gens and ive gotten used to the way i walk around and instinctively twist my arm around corners, etc to not hit stuff, but still stressful.

Just my 2 cents…
This above, Exact same reason for me. If i am interested in a watch, i would purchase a rep first. If that watch ends up being in my weekly rotation, then (after 6 -12 months) i would consider buying a genuine watch. The only exception was my TC LV watch, it ended up being in my weekly rotation but i never got a call from the AD while on waiting list....
 
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Got20Mate

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This above, Exact same reason for me. If i am interested in a watch, i would purchase a rep first. If that watch ends up being in my weekly rotation, then (after 6 -12 months) i would consider buying a genuine watch. The only exception was my TC LV watch, it ended up being in my weekly rotation but i never got a call from the AD while on waiting list....
I did the exact same thing with a Tudor Heritage Stainless Steel - The gen was superb but I wanted the gen as it's so attainable for me personally. Never looked back.

Shame I can't do that with all the reps, maybe one day :ROFLMAO:
 

Melvin rod

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8/4/23
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I belive gens last longer (decades) than reps and can take more abuse/neglect. I am having a Gen GMT 16713 serviced for the first time since purchased new in 2005.

If you're buying for the collection/legacy I would recommend a Gen. If you just want to get 95% of the experience and then sell it later get a rep.
 
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Galenik

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22/7/21
477
166
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I do mostly agree with you but there are also watches with an easy to replace and long lasting ETW/Selita movement like my VF7 Pilot Mark 18. If the Asia movement breaks (runs at +\- 0 sec/day at the moment), I’ll just have a gen Selita movement installed.
 
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GrandmasterChime

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I think the happy median is having both. I buy reps semi regularly sometimes on a whim because if i dont like it no bother. I also buy gen which i put much more thought and time into. I picked up a steel rolex from the ad on saturday, would i have done that if i thought my money was gone, probably not. Theres pleasure in owning both, reps stop me from dropping even more money on gens that i may not be able to get out of.
 

Chumbleflea

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9/5/23
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I think the happy median is having both. I buy reps semi regularly sometimes on a whim because if i dont like it no bother. I also buy gen which i put much more thought and time into. I picked up a steel rolex from the ad on saturday, would i have done that if i thought my money was gone, probably not. Theres pleasure in owning both, reps stop me from dropping even more money on gens that i may not be able to get out of.
well said
 

JTT

You're Saying I Can Sell?
29/5/21
27
53
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I think most answers in this thread are almost responding to a version of the question posed by the original poster, which is to say this is 'why I buy both Gens and Reps, not just one or the other'. I think this is key, reps don't offer you the variety and flexibility that gens do, but gens don't offer you the variety and flexibility that reps do.

TLDR; I think both are a valuable part of any collection. If I were to expand.

What reps do not offer:

1. High end, high complication watches / independents: You can't yet get (unless there is a whole segment I don't know about) high end complications and independents. If you want a Moser Perpetual Calendar, a Lange Triple split or Zeitwerk, FPJ resonance, a PP double split or minute repeater, MB&F double chrono or Perpetual Evo, Rollie Annual calendar... you just aren't getting them in the rep world. This is not something many are concerned about admittedly, but it is still a gap which won't be closed.

2. Sufficient Design variety: There isn't the range available to a purchaser in the rep world across price points. From low to medium to high end, mens, women's and children's watches. In the gen world there is just far more variety which fits all tastes, size and price-points. This is not the case in the rep world - majority (not all, of course) is Rolex, PP, AP. Which is fine, that satisfies most tastes I think but maybe not for a collector over the long term.

3. Material variety: Money no object you could wear a carbon-fibre 70g Hublot on the wrist one day (please don't - save yourself), followed by a platinum Daytona or white gold FPJ the next. You could wander around London, or NYC and Singapore on a weekend and have solid gold, silver, titanium, carbon, tantalum etc. on the wrist to enjoy. At high and low budgets you can have an enviable range of materials on your wrist.

4. Quality: Ish - if it is a mass produced Rolex etc. frankly a good stainless steel copy of a 116500, 124060, 126610LN etc. will get you 85-90% of the gen quality but that is for a few models and even with those there is always that 10-15% which is off - that extra accuracy, the likely longevity, that extra polish with finishing. That being said frankly AP and PP have been sitting on their hands with their entry-level models and the movements have not evolved for years, and years, and years. Go into an AP boutique and try on a 39 and change the date, ask about WR and note the power reserve and be very very confused.

That PP introduced the 6700G range as the 'modern' base Calatrava with an upgraded movement but it still has only 35-45 hours power reserve is comical when compared to the H.Moser & Cie base 3-hander movement or any Tudor BB ( I know its dress not sports, but its still 3-hander / 3 hander with date comp).

5. Niche, watches with history: Want a watch that has a story, that was on the wrist of a soldier, sailer or candlestick maker for thirty years. Want a watch only issued to military unit because it was your family unit, a dive school that your aunt and uncle attended, a graduating class of jet pilots that your best mate graduated from who since bought it, a certain employer. Nope. Not only do those not see the light of day for the most part - there isn't the financial incentive to reproduce.

6. Asset / Investment: There is more potential of upside if you buy right with gens but reps are as liquid when compared to a varied gen collection, just the values more likely lower. The most liquid gens will take approx 5 days from the point you would like to sell to having £ in the bank if you use a scale watch dealer (exceptions apply). Factor in insurance, servicing, buying the models you thought you wanted but don't, locking up cash and it's a more interesting story as a scale watch collector when you work across brands. Parking cash in a small physical asset that isn't going to materially depreciate is also valuable to some which is an often overlooked benefit too.

What reps do offer:

1. Accessibility (£ $): No two ways about it, medium-end watches are generally speaking overpriced, high-end almost always are, ultra-high end are crippling. A lot of the 'goal/grail/hype/cool' watches are far out of the range of most financially. Make no bones about it, in this authors opinion people should get a replica rather than put themselves in a precarious financial position and load themselves up with debt or financing. An 18 year old who buys a replica today, could buy a PP grand complication in 15 years having got that first foothold on this forum - buying when they can afford but enjoying the hobby for years before.

Look at JLC and the comical increase in pricing multiple times in the past 18 months, Lange and the 20-30% increase across the board the other month, Tudor (an accessible brand) and the 10% + increases staring to compound and raise eyebrows. Not great.

2. Accessibility (access): Can't get the damn things when you want, usually. Self explanatory - people know the Rolex challenges. Which to be honest, like others have mentioned vary across regions and stores and it's almost (is) unfair how easy these actually are for people connected properly who aren't always genuine collectors. For PP, Lange you will have to snake your purchases through the collection categories rather than go for what you want when you want if you want several (even if you are a noted collector). For MB&F, FPJ - better make your way into the F&F to get what you want, the lists go on. Even when you drop to the more accessible but hype like some from Baltic, Studio UnderDog, Christopher Ward, Tissot you can wait months. I've personally waited longer for some entry-level hype watches than 'in-demand' professionals / sports.

3. Try before you buy: Not too much more to say - try before you buy and I do this a lot. Not sure if you want a Submariner or Submariner Date then try them both delivered to your house in days. Don't like, sell them. Yes you can go into stores but that doesn't always work well for everyone - i) stores don't always have stock and when they do you won't spent much time with these watches ii) many are intimidated in these high end watch stores and are treated badly - 'don't have an appointment, bugger off please', iii) plenty of people aren't located close to watch stores. People getting pied off in stores is something I see so often and I don't like it, everyone has to start somewhere and not all people are as comfortable, have large spends and know the people who work in stores. Go to watch clubs you say... well some of these and the people in them - that's a whole different post.

4. Insurance, Servicing, Ancillary costs: These go up or down with scale but it is not nothing. Insurance can be low - often sitting at c.1% of watch value for something like a Sub is good, but this adds up. Independent servicing (not all - some are VERY good in this regard) or complication servicing takes time, £/$ and pain sometimes. Paying for safe deposit boxes, serviced or monitored alarms costs £ too.

Pay to play: Even top tier collectors for the v. high end brands will be required to buy watches you don't really want on the journey - or watches you want but too frequently (ironically). It's the price of entry and doesn't matter who you are. Can you get rid yes, but for the v.high end it's a small world and whilst you might get a shot across the bow on the first one you dump v.v. quickly as everyone knows it was a. stepping stone, twice and they will sink your battleship.

5. Loss: Lose a replica. Ok, don't care .. what's for dinner. Lose a gen, oh this is going to be fun - police, insurance, watch shops and registers etc.

6. Security: If we are talking well-known watches like sports PP, sports Rolex etc. then one has less concern in many locations and times with a replica. Obviously you don't want to flash either around in certain locations or at certain times but this is somewhat self explanatory. Also with reps you don't need to make sure you strictly adhering to insurance conditions / expectations ('oh did I put it in the safe' etc.). Side point, with reps your most frequent trip isn't to the bank and WAITING FOREVER every time for the box opening procedures.

Im sure there are more reasons and arguments both sides, just adding in two cents.
 
Last edited:

Got20Mate

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I think most answers in this thread are almost responding to a version of the question posed by the original poster, which is to say this is 'why I buy both Gens and Reps, not just one or the other'. I think this is key, reps don't offer you the variety and flexibility that gens do, but gens don't offer you the variety and flexibility that reps do.

TLDR; I think both are a valuable part of any collection. If I were to expand.

What reps do not offer:

1. High end, high complication watches / independents: You can't yet get (unless there is a whole segment I don't know about) high end complications and independents. If you want a Moser Perpetual Calendar, a Lange Triple split or Zeitwerk, FPJ resonance, a PP double split or minute repeater, MB&F double chrono or Perpetual Evo, Rollie Annual calendar... you just aren't getting them in the rep world. This is not something many are concerned about admittedly, but it is still a gap which won't be closed.

2. Sufficient Design variety: There isn't the range available to a purchaser in the rep world across price points. From low to medium to high end, mens, women's and children's watches. In the gen world there is just far more variety which fits all tastes, size and price-points. This is not the case in the rep world - majority (not all, of course) is Rolex, PP, AP. Which is fine, that satisfies most tastes I think but maybe not for a collector over the long term.

3. Material variety: Money no object you could wear a carbon-fibre 70g Hublot on the wrist one day (please don't - save yourself), followed by a platinum Daytona or white gold FPJ the next. You could wander around London, or NYC and Singapore on a weekend and have solid gold, silver, titanium, carbon, tantalum etc. on the wrist to enjoy. At high and low budgets you can have an enviable range of materials on your wrist.

4. Quality: Ish - if it is a mass produced Rolex etc. frankly a good stainless steel copy of a 116500, 124060, 126610LN etc. will get you 85-90% of the gen quality but that is for a few models and even with those there is always that 10-15% which is off - that extra accuracy, the likely longevity, that extra polish with finishing. That being said frankly AP and PP have been sitting on their hands with their entry-level models and the movements have not evolved for years, and years, and years. Go into an AP boutique and try on a 39 and change the date, ask about WR and note the power reserve and be very very confused.

That PP introduced the 6700G range as the 'modern' base Calatrava with an upgraded movement but it still has only 35-45 hours power reserve is comical when compared to the H.Moser & Cie base 3-hander movement or any Tudor BB ( I know its dress not sports, but its still 3-hander / 3 hander with date comp).

5. Niche, watches with history: Want a watch that has a story, that was on the wrist of a soldier, sailer or candlestick maker for thirty years. Want a watch only issued to military unit because it was your family unit, a dive school that your aunt and uncle attended, a graduating class of jet pilots that your best mate graduated from who since bought it, a certain employer. Nope. Not only do those not see the light of day for the most part - there isn't the financial incentive to reproduce.

6. Asset / Investment: There is more potential of upside if you buy right with gens but reps are as liquid when compared to a varied gen collection, just the values more likely lower. The most liquid gens will take approx 5 days from the point you would like to sell to having £ in the bank if you use a scale watch dealer (exceptions apply). Factor in insurance, servicing, buying the models you thought you wanted but don't, locking up cash and it's a more interesting story as a scale watch collector when you work across brands. Parking cash in a small physical asset that isn't going to materially depreciate is also valuable to some which is an often overlooked benefit too.

What reps do offer:

1. Accessibility (£ $): No two ways about it, medium-end watches are generally speaking overpriced, high-end almost always are, ultra-high end are crippling. A lot of the 'goal/grail/hype/cool' watches are far out of the range of most financially. Make no bones about it, in this authors opinion people should get a replica rather than put themselves in a precarious financial position and load themselves up with debt or financing. An 18 year old who buys a replica today, could buy a PP grand complication in 15 years having got that first foothold on this forum - buying when they can afford but enjoying the hobby for years before.

Look at JLC and the comical increase in pricing multiple times in the past 18 months, Lange and the 20-30% increase across the board the other month, Tudor (an accessible brand) and the 10% + increases staring to compound and raise eyebrows. Not great.

2. Accessibility (access): Can't get the damn things when you want, usually. Self explanatory - people know the Rolex challenges. Which to be honest, like others have mentioned vary across regions and stores and it's almost (is) unfair how easy these actually are for people connected properly who aren't always genuine collectors. For PP, Lange you will have to snake your purchases through the collection categories rather than go for what you want when you want if you want several (even if you are a noted collector). For MB&F, FPJ - better make your way into the F&F to get what you want, the lists go on. Even when you drop to the more accessible but hype like some from Baltic, Studio UnderDog, Christopher Ward, Tissot you can wait months. I've personally waited longer for some entry-level hype watches than 'in-demand' professionals / sports.

3. Try before you buy: Not too much more to say - try before you buy and I do this a lot. Not sure if you want a Submariner or Submariner Date then try them both delivered to your house in days. Don't like, sell them. Yes you can go into stores but that doesn't always work well for everyone - i) stores don't always have stock and when they do you won't spent much time with these watches ii) many are intimidated in these high end watch stores and are treated badly - 'don't have an appointment, bugger off please', iii) plenty of people aren't located close to watch stores. People getting pied off in stores is something I see so often and I don't like it, everyone has to start somewhere and not all people are as comfortable, have large spends and know the people who work in stores. Go to watch clubs you say... well some of these and the people in them - that's a whole different post.

4. Insurance, Servicing, Ancillary costs: These go up or down with scale but it is not nothing. Insurance can be low - often sitting at c.1% of watch value for something like a Sub is good, but this adds up. Independent servicing (not all - some are VERY good in this regard) or complication servicing takes time, £/$ and pain sometimes. Paying for safe deposit boxes, serviced or monitored alarms costs £ too.

Pay to play: Even top tier collectors for the v. high end brands will be required to buy watches you don't really want on the journey - or watches you want but too frequently (ironically). It's the price of entry and doesn't matter who you are. Can you get rid yes, but for the v.high end it's a small world and whilst you might get a shot across the bow on the first one you dump v.v. quickly as everyone knows it was a. stepping stone, twice and they will sink your battleship.

5. Loss: Lose a replica. Ok, don't care .. what's for dinner. Lose a gen, oh this is going to be fun - police, insurance, watch shops and registers etc.

6. Security: If we are talking well-known watches like sports PP, sports Rolex etc. then one has less concern in many locations and times with a replica. Obviously you don't want to flash either around in certain locations or at certain times but this is somewhat self explanatory. Also with reps you don't need to make sure you strictly adhering to insurance conditions / expectations ('oh did I put it in the safe' etc.). Side point, with reps your most frequent trip isn't to the bank and WAITING FOREVER every time for the box opening procedures.

Im sure there are more reasons and arguments both sides, just adding in two cents.

5. Loss: Lose a replica. Ok, don't care .. what's for dinner. Lose a gen, oh this is going to be fun - police, insurance, watch shops and registers etc.


Says it all - Superb write up that deserves a sticky! haha
 

Horace_Derwent

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I think most answers in this thread are almost responding to a version of the question posed by the original poster, which is to say this is 'why I buy both Gens and Reps, not just one or the other'. I think this is key, reps don't offer you the variety and flexibility that gens do, but gens don't offer you the variety and flexibility that reps do.

TLDR; I think both are a valuable part of any collection. If I were to expand.

What reps do not offer:

1. High end, high complication watches / independents: You can't yet get (unless there is a whole segment I don't know about) high end complications and independents. If you want a Moser Perpetual Calendar, a Lange Triple split or Zeitwerk, FPJ resonance, a PP double split or minute repeater, MB&F double chrono or Perpetual Evo, Rollie Annual calendar... you just aren't getting them in the rep world. This is not something many are concerned about admittedly, but it is still a gap which won't be closed.
This is a so well written and articulated post that it deserves to be on the Top of the thread, at the very least !
 

Sumo86

Active Member
8/1/23
312
311
63
Uk
I think most answers in this thread are almost responding to a version of the question posed by the original poster, which is to say this is 'why I buy both Gens and Reps, not just one or the other'. I think this is key, reps don't offer you the variety and flexibility that gens do, but gens don't offer you the variety and flexibility that reps do.

TLDR; I think both are a valuable part of any collection. If I were to expand.

What reps do not offer:

1. High end, high complication watches / independents: You can't yet get (unless there is a whole segment I don't know about) high end complications and independents. If you want a Moser Perpetual Calendar, a Lange Triple split or Zeitwerk, FPJ resonance, a PP double split or minute repeater, MB&F double chrono or Perpetual Evo, Rollie Annual calendar... you just aren't getting them in the rep world. This is not something many are concerned about admittedly, but it is still a gap which won't be closed.

2. Sufficient Design variety: There isn't the range available to a purchaser in the rep world across price points. From low to medium to high end, mens, women's and children's watches. In the gen world there is just far more variety which fits all tastes, size and price-points. This is not the case in the rep world - majority (not all, of course) is Rolex, PP, AP. Which is fine, that satisfies most tastes I think but maybe not for a collector over the long term.

3. Material variety: Money no object you could wear a carbon-fibre 70g Hublot on the wrist one day (please don't - save yourself), followed by a platinum Daytona or white gold FPJ the next. You could wander around London, or NYC and Singapore on a weekend and have solid gold, silver, titanium, carbon, tantalum etc. on the wrist to enjoy. At high and low budgets you can have an enviable range of materials on your wrist.

4. Quality: Ish - if it is a mass produced Rolex etc. frankly a good stainless steel copy of a 116500, 124060, 126610LN etc. will get you 85-90% of the gen quality but that is for a few models and even with those there is always that 10-15% which is off - that extra accuracy, the likely longevity, that extra polish with finishing. That being said frankly AP and PP have been sitting on their hands with their entry-level models and the movements have not evolved for years, and years, and years. Go into an AP boutique and try on a 39 and change the date, ask about WR and note the power reserve and be very very confused.

That PP introduced the 6700G range as the 'modern' base Calatrava with an upgraded movement but it still has only 35-45 hours power reserve is comical when compared to the H.Moser & Cie base 3-hander movement or any Tudor BB ( I know its dress not sports, but its still 3-hander / 3 hander with date comp).

5. Niche, watches with history: Want a watch that has a story, that was on the wrist of a soldier, sailer or candlestick maker for thirty years. Want a watch only issued to military unit because it was your family unit, a dive school that your aunt and uncle attended, a graduating class of jet pilots that your best mate graduated from who since bought it, a certain employer. Nope. Not only do those not see the light of day for the most part - there isn't the financial incentive to reproduce.

6. Asset / Investment: There is more potential of upside if you buy right with gens but reps are as liquid when compared to a varied gen collection, just the values more likely lower. The most liquid gens will take approx 5 days from the point you would like to sell to having £ in the bank if you use a scale watch dealer (exceptions apply). Factor in insurance, servicing, buying the models you thought you wanted but don't, locking up cash and it's a more interesting story as a scale watch collector when you work across brands. Parking cash in a small physical asset that isn't going to materially depreciate is also valuable to some which is an often overlooked benefit too.

What reps do offer:

1. Accessibility (£ $): No two ways about it, medium-end watches are generally speaking overpriced, high-end almost always are, ultra-high end are crippling. A lot of the 'goal/grail/hype/cool' watches are far out of the range of most financially. Make no bones about it, in this authors opinion people should get a replica rather than put themselves in a precarious financial position and load themselves up with debt or financing. An 18 year old who buys a replica today, could buy a PP grand complication in 15 years having got that first foothold on this forum - buying when they can afford but enjoying the hobby for years before.

Look at JLC and the comical increase in pricing multiple times in the past 18 months, Lange and the 20-30% increase across the board the other month, Tudor (an accessible brand) and the 10% + increases staring to compound and raise eyebrows. Not great.

2. Accessibility (access): Can't get the damn things when you want, usually. Self explanatory - people know the Rolex challenges. Which to be honest, like others have mentioned vary across regions and stores and it's almost (is) unfair how easy these actually are for people connected properly who aren't always genuine collectors. For PP, Lange you will have to snake your purchases through the collection categories rather than go for what you want when you want if you want several (even if you are a noted collector). For MB&F, FPJ - better make your way into the F&F to get what you want, the lists go on. Even when you drop to the more accessible but hype like some from Baltic, Studio UnderDog, Christopher Ward, Tissot you can wait months. I've personally waited longer for some entry-level hype watches than 'in-demand' professionals / sports.

3. Try before you buy: Not too much more to say - try before you buy and I do this a lot. Not sure if you want a Submariner or Submariner Date then try them both delivered to your house in days. Don't like, sell them. Yes you can go into stores but that doesn't always work well for everyone - i) stores don't always have stock and when they do you won't spent much time with these watches ii) many are intimidated in these high end watch stores and are treated badly - 'don't have an appointment, bugger off please', iii) plenty of people aren't located close to watch stores. People getting pied off in stores is something I see so often and I don't like it, everyone has to start somewhere and not all people are as comfortable, have large spends and know the people who work in stores. Go to watch clubs you say... well some of these and the people in them - that's a whole different post.

4. Insurance, Servicing, Ancillary costs: These go up or down with scale but it is not nothing. Insurance can be low - often sitting at c.1% of watch value for something like a Sub is good, but this adds up. Independent servicing (not all - some are VERY good in this regard) or complication servicing takes time, £/$ and pain sometimes. Paying for safe deposit boxes, serviced or monitored alarms costs £ too.

Pay to play: Even top tier collectors for the v. high end brands will be required to buy watches you don't really want on the journey - or watches you want but too frequently (ironically). It's the price of entry and doesn't matter who you are. Can you get rid yes, but for the v.high end it's a small world and whilst you might get a shot across the bow on the first one you dump v.v. quickly as everyone knows it was a. stepping stone, twice and they will sink your battleship.

5. Loss: Lose a replica. Ok, don't care .. what's for dinner. Lose a gen, oh this is going to be fun - police, insurance, watch shops and registers etc.

6. Security: If we are talking well-known watches like sports PP, sports Rolex etc. then one has less concern in many locations and times with a replica. Obviously you don't want to flash either around in certain locations or at certain times but this is somewhat self explanatory. Also with reps you don't need to make sure you strictly adhering to insurance conditions / expectations ('oh did I put it in the safe' etc.). Side point, with reps your most frequent trip isn't to the bank and WAITING FOREVER every time for the box opening procedures.

Im sure there are more reasons and arguments both sides, just adding in two cents.
What's for dinner 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣💪🏽
 
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TDFBluWaffle

You're Saying I Can Sell?
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I think most answers in this thread are almost responding to a version of the question posed by the original poster, which is to say this is 'why I buy both Gens and Reps, not just one or the other'. I think this is key, reps don't offer you the variety and flexibility that gens do, but gens don't offer you the variety and flexibility that reps do.

TLDR; I think both are a valuable part of any collection. If I were to expand.

What reps do not offer:

1. High end, high complication watches / independents: You can't yet get (unless there is a whole segment I don't know about) high end complications and independents. If you want a Moser Perpetual Calendar, a Lange Triple split or Zeitwerk, FPJ resonance, a PP double split or minute repeater, MB&F double chrono or Perpetual Evo, Rollie Annual calendar... you just aren't getting them in the rep world. This is not something many are concerned about admittedly, but it is still a gap which won't be closed.

2. Sufficient Design variety: There isn't the range available to a purchaser in the rep world across price points. From low to medium to high end, mens, women's and children's watches. In the gen world there is just far more variety which fits all tastes, size and price-points. This is not the case in the rep world - majority (not all, of course) is Rolex, PP, AP. Which is fine, that satisfies most tastes I think but maybe not for a collector over the long term.

3. Material variety: Money no object you could wear a carbon-fibre 70g Hublot on the wrist one day (please don't - save yourself), followed by a platinum Daytona or white gold FPJ the next. You could wander around London, or NYC and Singapore on a weekend and have solid gold, silver, titanium, carbon, tantalum etc. on the wrist to enjoy. At high and low budgets you can have an enviable range of materials on your wrist.

4. Quality: Ish - if it is a mass produced Rolex etc. frankly a good stainless steel copy of a 116500, 124060, 126610LN etc. will get you 85-90% of the gen quality but that is for a few models and even with those there is always that 10-15% which is off - that extra accuracy, the likely longevity, that extra polish with finishing. That being said frankly AP and PP have been sitting on their hands with their entry-level models and the movements have not evolved for years, and years, and years. Go into an AP boutique and try on a 39 and change the date, ask about WR and note the power reserve and be very very confused.

That PP introduced the 6700G range as the 'modern' base Calatrava with an upgraded movement but it still has only 35-45 hours power reserve is comical when compared to the H.Moser & Cie base 3-hander movement or any Tudor BB ( I know its dress not sports, but its still 3-hander / 3 hander with date comp).

5. Niche, watches with history: Want a watch that has a story, that was on the wrist of a soldier, sailer or candlestick maker for thirty years. Want a watch only issued to military unit because it was your family unit, a dive school that your aunt and uncle attended, a graduating class of jet pilots that your best mate graduated from who since bought it, a certain employer. Nope. Not only do those not see the light of day for the most part - there isn't the financial incentive to reproduce.

6. Asset / Investment: There is more potential of upside if you buy right with gens but reps are as liquid when compared to a varied gen collection, just the values more likely lower. The most liquid gens will take approx 5 days from the point you would like to sell to having £ in the bank if you use a scale watch dealer (exceptions apply). Factor in insurance, servicing, buying the models you thought you wanted but don't, locking up cash and it's a more interesting story as a scale watch collector when you work across brands. Parking cash in a small physical asset that isn't going to materially depreciate is also valuable to some which is an often overlooked benefit too.

What reps do offer:

1. Accessibility (£ $): No two ways about it, medium-end watches are generally speaking overpriced, high-end almost always are, ultra-high end are crippling. A lot of the 'goal/grail/hype/cool' watches are far out of the range of most financially. Make no bones about it, in this authors opinion people should get a replica rather than put themselves in a precarious financial position and load themselves up with debt or financing. An 18 year old who buys a replica today, could buy a PP grand complication in 15 years having got that first foothold on this forum - buying when they can afford but enjoying the hobby for years before.

Look at JLC and the comical increase in pricing multiple times in the past 18 months, Lange and the 20-30% increase across the board the other month, Tudor (an accessible brand) and the 10% + increases staring to compound and raise eyebrows. Not great.

2. Accessibility (access): Can't get the damn things when you want, usually. Self explanatory - people know the Rolex challenges. Which to be honest, like others have mentioned vary across regions and stores and it's almost (is) unfair how easy these actually are for people connected properly who aren't always genuine collectors. For PP, Lange you will have to snake your purchases through the collection categories rather than go for what you want when you want if you want several (even if you are a noted collector). For MB&F, FPJ - better make your way into the F&F to get what you want, the lists go on. Even when you drop to the more accessible but hype like some from Baltic, Studio UnderDog, Christopher Ward, Tissot you can wait months. I've personally waited longer for some entry-level hype watches than 'in-demand' professionals / sports.

3. Try before you buy: Not too much more to say - try before you buy and I do this a lot. Not sure if you want a Submariner or Submariner Date then try them both delivered to your house in days. Don't like, sell them. Yes you can go into stores but that doesn't always work well for everyone - i) stores don't always have stock and when they do you won't spent much time with these watches ii) many are intimidated in these high end watch stores and are treated badly - 'don't have an appointment, bugger off please', iii) plenty of people aren't located close to watch stores. People getting pied off in stores is something I see so often and I don't like it, everyone has to start somewhere and not all people are as comfortable, have large spends and know the people who work in stores. Go to watch clubs you say... well some of these and the people in them - that's a whole different post.

4. Insurance, Servicing, Ancillary costs: These go up or down with scale but it is not nothing. Insurance can be low - often sitting at c.1% of watch value for something like a Sub is good, but this adds up. Independent servicing (not all - some are VERY good in this regard) or complication servicing takes time, £/$ and pain sometimes. Paying for safe deposit boxes, serviced or monitored alarms costs £ too.

Pay to play: Even top tier collectors for the v. high end brands will be required to buy watches you don't really want on the journey - or watches you want but too frequently (ironically). It's the price of entry and doesn't matter who you are. Can you get rid yes, but for the v.high end it's a small world and whilst you might get a shot across the bow on the first one you dump v.v. quickly as everyone knows it was a. stepping stone, twice and they will sink your battleship.

5. Loss: Lose a replica. Ok, don't care .. what's for dinner. Lose a gen, oh this is going to be fun - police, insurance, watch shops and registers etc.

6. Security: If we are talking well-known watches like sports PP, sports Rolex etc. then one has less concern in many locations and times with a replica. Obviously you don't want to flash either around in certain locations or at certain times but this is somewhat self explanatory. Also with reps you don't need to make sure you strictly adhering to insurance conditions / expectations ('oh did I put it in the safe' etc.). Side point, with reps your most frequent trip isn't to the bank and WAITING FOREVER every time for the box opening procedures.

Im sure there are more reasons and arguments both sides, just adding in two cents.
Holy moly… I vote sticky. Great summary
 
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rolexers

Horology Curious
12/6/23
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Gen... you can pass it down, and theres a certain feeling obtaining one. feels like a milestone in life. but other than that, reps are good if you are traveling to eu or us nowadays.
 

Thatwatchguy

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Gen or rep buy what you like.

I too was on the thought passage of passing gens on to my children as so many do… I gauged the interest over the years.

My teenage boys could care less about watches when I show them. I don’t want them to remember me by a watch they don’t like and won’t wear, I would just rather invest the money into something like their first car, house deposit etc.

So yes I have moved largely away from gens, I only have a gen Heuer Monaco but apart from that I personally don’t see the value so I go for reps for my tastes (although I would like a nice gen speedy).
 

Horace_Derwent

I'm Pretty Popular
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Gen or rep buy what you like.

I too was on the thought passage of passing gens on to my children as so many do… I gauged the interest over the years.

My teenage boys could care less about watches when I show them. I don’t want them to remember me by a watch they don’t like and won’t wear, I would just rather invest the money into something like their first car, house deposit etc.
Well, the lack of interest is also a possibility....we watch enhusiast take for granted the Love for watch....instead a large part of the people cannot care less....:rolleyes:
 
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