Welcome to the Brig: OASCOM

[VenomGT3]

I had severe food poisoning or the stomach flu back in February and I had either my mom or sister mail out a GMT I had sold on here. It’s not hard to do the right thing and avoid delays which only lead to people questioning you and wondering if they've been scammed.

When someone sends you their money, it’s on you to make sure they are comfortable and not worried that they might be screwed. We’re dealing with replica watches so scumbags are bound to be more common than other hobbies and items, as recourse is less likely due to the nature of the hobby. That means most people genuinely have some anxiety until the product they purchased is sent out and tracking is provided, or services are made in a timely fashion.

 

[SaiyanSaiyanNoMi]

I know exactly who you refer to and yes, he's an artisan alright.

Also stand up guy too. Sent me updates throughout the process (which I was able to pass on the the buyer) and when his power was knocked out, he offered nothing but apologies and offered to pay for faster shipping (I declined. I was floored that he was apologizing to begin with.)

 

[GV-SP]

lol, there is always one playing the devil's apologist... gotta love it

 

[SaiyanSaiyanNoMi]

lol, there is always one playing the devil's apologist... gotta love it

I'll never understand. There are hundreds of examples, hell how many do we have showing the inmate claiming an "illness"? (Favorite one was the guy's "wife" commenting for him.)
Staff don't toss people here off a whim.

Even if it's true about the illness, what he posted was all I needed to see.

 

[Gaz1a]

lol, there is always one playing the devil's apologist... gotta love it

Oh come on.

I understand that people are frustrated, and I’m not trying to minimize that. From what I can see, the main issue seems to be the long wait times for builds—not delivering as expected or within a reasonable timeframe. If that’s the case, then I agree it’s not ideal, and he should definitely prioritize his workflow and improve his communication strategy. He just said he would. And it seems people are seeing responses with packaging arriving etc.

That said, if his website clearly outlines a long timeframe and people are still choosing to pay upfront, I’m trying to understand what constitutes an offense beyond the poor communication and delays. If there’s something more serious I’m missing, I’d genuinely appreciate clarification. Otherwise, it does feel like this has turned into a bit of a pile-on, which may not be the most productive approach.

 

[SaiyanSaiyanNoMi]

That said, if his website clearly outlines a long timeframe and people are still choosing to pay upfront, I’m trying to understand what constitutes an offense beyond the poor communication and delays. If there’s something more serious I’m missing, I’d genuinely appreciate clarification. Otherwise, it does feel like this has turned into a bit of a pile-on, which may not be the most productive approach.

I get what you're saying, it's in the same vein as what we say here "buy the buyer/seller, not the watch," however, when delays happen, you let your customers know.
If you're ill and it's going to be difficult to fulfill orders, you broadcast that.
If people pull their orders, at least you have your integrity, which for me is important.

It took this brig post for him to respond, and that's pretty damning.

 

[trailboss99]

Otherwise, it does feel like this has turned into a bit of a pile-on, which may not be the most productive approach.

Do you not think we tried every other option first? Until this morning no one had heard from him in weeks, emails were being ignored. Lo and behold, all of a sudden he's replied to some of those he owes goods and services to. Whether he makes good on anything he says remains to be seen.

 

[dogwood]

Has anyone ever seen all this "machinery"?

I have.

Pat and I have discussed various machine tools over the last couple of years. As far as I know he's acquired a high end watchmaker's lathe and tooling, a benchtop 5-axis CNC, and a MOPA fibre laser for his shop. I'm on a watchmaker group chat with Pat and he's demonstrated quite a few high end machines over the last year.

I'm not making excuses for him. But I suspect the reason he may not be simply paying people back is because he might have spent the pre-payment cash on machines, tooling, and equipment for his workshop.

I sincerely hope that Pat is able to refund everybody who wants a refund and swiftly delivery on work to everybody who would prefer that option.

I've never had anything except high integrity interactions with Pat over the years, so I have to say this situation has shaken me to my core. I know that @trailboss99 and @daytona4me would not brigg someone lightly, so I have to assume that the evidence against Pat is damning and extremely grave.

However, I hold out hope that Pat will eventually do right to those he ows work / money.

Here's why I think given time Pat may yet do right by those he owes: Several years ago I bought a set of 3D printed bezel dies from Pat. Last summer I left the dies out on my side bench and they got quite hot in the sun and warped. I messaged Pat and told him what happened more as an FYI to change whatever filament he was using in his 3D printer to something more warp resistant. Pat offered to print me a new set of dies for free or (since I needed the dies quickly) he offered to send me the CAD files for his complete die set so that I could get a set made locally. Pat didn't owe me anything. I left the dies out in the sun / heat. But instead of leaving me in the lurch, he did what it took to get me sorted out.

I realise the scale of what we're talking about here is very different. From what has been publicly disclosed, I suspect Pat used pre-payments to fund acquisitions of equipment and then got hit with health issues so he couldn't deliver. If that's the case, then it speaks to poor business managment decisions. But bad management is the reason why chapter-11 (creditor protection) exists for large businesses. Better a business be restructed and eventually pull through than it implode and leave everyone holding an empty bucket. Obviously creditor protection and a court appointed manager aren't solutions here. But, I sincerely hope that if this is the case, then Pat will put his nose to the grind stone and clear the backlog of people to whom he owes work.

 

[GV-SP]

Oh come on.

i dunno man, maybe you don't have an issue with some stranger taking your money and your watches for an undisclosed amount of time & ghosting you completely and when he's forced back up to surface, he gives you some bullshit apology that can't be backed up or verified.

idk, i don't think anyone should be telling the owners of this place how to conduct their accountability business specially when, what was it 30k of peoples hard earned money and belongings are currently in the possesion of someone else who just... vanishes.

incidentally, im very damned certain the money has been spent a long time ago. that's why there's no refund offers

 

[themaxx25]

Oh come on.

I understand that people are frustrated, and I’m not trying to minimize that. From what I can see, the main issue seems to be the long wait times for builds—not delivering as expected or within a reasonable timeframe. If that’s the case, then I agree it’s not ideal, and he should definitely prioritize his workflow and improve his communication strategy. He just said he would. And it seems people are seeing responses with packaging arriving etc.

That said, if his website clearly outlines a long timeframe and people are still choosing to pay upfront, I’m trying to understand what constitutes an offense beyond the poor communication and delays. If there’s something more serious I’m missing, I’d genuinely appreciate clarification. Otherwise, it does feel like this has turned into a bit of a pile-on, which may not be the most productive approach.

Several issues and you are minimizing it! Long wait times, while you are holding someones money and property... All while ghosting them. There is ZERO excuse for not communicating! Stop trying to defend the indefensible!

Update: the order I placed this past Friday before this post went up (which F* scared the living daylights out of me) did arrive today! I am hopeful there is light at the end of the tunnel for everyone effected.

 

[themaxx25]

@Gaz1a The Mods have been trying to get Oascom to communicate and do the right thing for the last year. This just didn't happen overnight. He thought he could ignore it, and still have a customer base on reddit. You really believe he was able to muster up the energy to post on reddit and on his Insta while dealing with health issues, but couldn't get back to his customers regarding their orders? Seriously, you really believe that? He finally chimed in because he's now fully exposed.

 

[Gaz1a]

@Gaz1a The Mods have been trying to get Oascom to communicate and do the right this for the last year. This just didn't happen overnight. He thought he could ignore it, and still have a customer base on reddit. You really believe he was able to muster up the energy to post on reddit and on his Insta while dealing with health issues, but couldn't get back to his customers regarding their orders? Seriously, you really believe that? He finally chimed in because he's now fully exposed.

What exactly are we exposing here? That his site clearly states lead times can be up to 1 year, or even 2 years for some builds? And despite that, people willingly—though maybe anxiously—pay him hundreds or thousands of dollars upfront?

The real and most important question is: has anyone actually been defrauded by Oascom? Are there customers out there who’ve waited longer than 12 months without receiving their orders, despite the guidance on his website? If so, that’s a real offense and should be addressed. We’ve seen people in the Brig for actual theft—taking money with no intention of delivering—and if that’s the case here, it should be made clear with evidence.

Otherwise, is the issue simply that people don’t like how long he takes or that he asks for money upfront? If that’s against the rules of this Forum, then fair enough—those rules should be enforced.

What feels problematic are accusations that, without being put in the Brig, he would’ve just never delivered anything. That’s a serious claim of theft and, without solid evidence, doesn’t seem helpful or fair.

So, what is it? Are we talking about broken promises and poor communication, or something more serious like fraud? Let’s stick to the facts and address the real issue. That's all I've been saying.

 

[GV-SP]

you can lead a horse to the water...

 

[Gaz1a]

you can lead a horse to the water...

True—but it’s a lot easier if the horse isn’t too busy kicking up dust to see the water.

 

[PsychoTee16]

I have.

Pat and I have discussed various machine tools over the last couple of years. As far as I know he's acquired a high end watchmaker's lathe and tooling, a benchtop 5-axis CNC, and a MOPA fibre laser for his shop. I'm on a watchmaker group chat with Pat and he's demonstrated quite a few high end machines over the last year.

I'm not making excuses for him. But I suspect the reason he may not be simply paying people back is because he might have spent the pre-payment cash on machines, tooling, and equipment for his workshop.

I sincerely hope that Pat is able to refund everybody who wants a refund and swiftly delivery on work to everybody who would prefer that option.

I've never had anything except high integrity interactions with Pat over the years, so I have to say this situation has shaken me to my core. I know that @trailboss99 and @daytona4me would not brigg someone lightly, so I have to assume that the evidence against Pat is damning and extremely grave.

However, I hold out hope that Pat will eventually do right to those he ows work / money.

Here's why I think given time Pat may yet do right by those he owes: Several years ago I bought a set of 3D printed bezel dies from Pat. Last summer I left the dies out on my side bench and they got quite hot in the sun and warped. I messaged Pat and told him what happened more as an FYI to change whatever filament he was using in his 3D printer to something more warp resistant. Pat offered to print me a new set of dies for free or (since I needed the dies quickly) he offered to send me the CAD files for his complete die set so that I could get a set made locally. Pat didn't owe me anything. I left the dies out in the sun / heat. But instead of leaving me in the lurch, he did what it took to get me sorted out.

I realise the scale of what we're talking about here is very different. From what has been publicly disclosed, I suspect Pat used pre-payments to fund acquisitions of equipment and then got hit with health issues so he couldn't deliver. If that's the case, then it speaks to poor business managment decisions. But bad management is the reason why chapter-11 (creditor protection) exists for large businesses. Better a business be restructed and eventually pull through than it implode and leave everyone holding an empty bucket. Obviously creditor protection and a court appointed manager aren't solutions here. But, I sincerely hope that if this is the case, then Pat will put his nose to the grind stone and clear the backlog of people to whom he owes work.

The first comment about machinery is just super bad bussiness practice. You should take a loan out rather than use customers money to sink into your bussiness before you’ve actually done the work.
That’s bussiness-101, at least to me, and an easy way to go out of business or just never get customers again.
And I don’t think any of that adds up to $30k. But I could be wrong. And some of that was purchased awhile ago….like over a year ago.

This Gaz1a guy just doesn’t listen.
Would you be okay with spending $3k, and not hearing anything for months?? Come on. I’d start getting suspicious regardless of who it was.

 

[joshhb8282]

What exactly are we exposing here? That his site clearly states lead times can be up to 1 year, or even 2 years for some builds? And despite that, people willingly—though maybe anxiously—pay him hundreds or thousands of dollars upfront?

The real and most important question is: has anyone actually been defrauded by Oascom? Are there customers out there who’ve waited longer than 12 months without receiving their orders, despite the guidance on his website? If so, that’s a real offense and should be addressed. We’ve seen people in the Brig for actual theft—taking money with no intention of delivering—and if that’s the case here, it should be made clear with evidence.

Otherwise, is the issue simply that people don’t like how long he takes or that he asks for money upfront? If that’s against the rules of this Forum, then fair enough—those rules should be enforced.

What feels problematic are accusations that, without being put in the Brig, he would’ve just never delivered anything. That’s a serious claim of theft and, without solid evidence, doesn’t seem helpful or fair.

So, what is it? Are we talking about broken promises and poor communication, or something more serious like fraud? Let’s stick to the facts and address the real issue. That's all I've been saying.

If someone takes someone's money then drops off the face of the earth that's fraud and theft, plain and simple. Future intent means nothing.

Stop defending the indefensible.

 

[trailboss99]

I have.

Fair enough, you know I trust you and your judgment. I still doubt he's making these dials from scratch like some people think, however.
The thing about taking payment in advance (and I'm sure you will agree here) is that it isn't really your money until you have delivered the goods or services, it shouldn't be spent and you should always have enough liquid capital to cover those payments/deposits. Pat should have no problem issuing prompt refunds for those who don't want to wait any longer. Regrettably, I fear you are correct and he has spent that money and that ends up in a Ponzi type situation where you are using fresh deposits to fulfil previous orders, a situation that can quickly get out of hand.

I just paid a deposit on some mew equipment for my workshop, it went into the company's trust account where it will sit until the goods are off the boat and I make the rest of the payment and take delivery. Now, while yo don't need to use a full-blown trust account a reputable business will keep those funds liquid until the order is fulfilled.

 

[Guiltycat]

What exactly are we exposing here? That his site clearly states lead times can be up to 1 year, or even 2 years for some builds? And despite that, people willingly—though maybe anxiously—pay him hundreds or thousands of dollars upfront?

The real and most important question is: has anyone actually been defrauded by Oascom? Are there customers out there who’ve waited longer than 12 months without receiving their orders, despite the guidance on his website? If so, that’s a real offense and should be addressed. We’ve seen people in the Brig for actual theft—taking money with no intention of delivering—and if that’s the case here, it should be made clear with evidence.

Otherwise, is the issue simply that people don’t like how long he takes or that he asks for money upfront? If that’s against the rules of this Forum, then fair enough—those rules should be enforced.

What feels problematic are accusations that, without being put in the Brig, he would’ve just never delivered anything. That’s a serious claim of theft and, without solid evidence, doesn’t seem helpful or fair.

So, what is it? Are we talking about broken promises and poor communication, or something more serious like fraud? Let’s stick to the facts and address the real issue. That's all I've been saying.

Have you read the multiple threads about the problems?

Most of the people raising issues with this (including me) is because we sent a pm before making the order asking for the price and time frame. When the quoted time arrives we send a pm asking for an update and we get radio silence.

So @Gaz1a you’re telling us it’s ok to take thousands of dollars from people and proceed ignore the customers for weeks/months after the quoted time frame?

 

[dogwood]

The first comment about machinery is just super bad bussiness practice. You should take a loan out rather than use customers money to sink into your bussiness before you’ve actually done the work.
That’s bussiness-101, at least to me, and an easy way to go out of business or just never get customers again.
And I don’t think any of that adds up to $30k. But I could be wrong. And some of that was purchased awhile ago….like over a year ago.

This Gaz1a guy just doesn’t listen.
Would you be okay with spending $3k, and not hearing anything for months?? Come on. I’d start getting suspicious regardless of who it was.

A couple of points.

1. I agree with you, financing capital expenditures for your business by taking pre-payments isn’t the way I’d ever do business. but its not an unheard of business strategy — KickStarter is literally a platform for doing just that. However, everybody backing a product on KickStarter knows (or ought to know) that there’s a real chance they’ll never get anything in return or if they do it will be years late. But “pre-sales” campaigns require that backers know they’re buying a pre-sale, and require regular updates on progress (two things that don’t apply here).
2. Importantly, my theory is just that, a theory. I don’t know if that’s what happened. But given the information in front of me, that’s what seemed most likely.
3. I’m pretty sure that the 5-axis CNC and watchmakers lathe together would easily be in the range of the amount of funds we’re talking about here. But again, I’m speculating. My theory is just that: a theory.

I sincerely hope a resolution to this situation is found soon for everyone involved.

 

[dogwood]

The thing about taking payment in advance (and I'm sure you will agree here) is that it isn't really your money until you have delivered the goods or services, it shouldn't be spent and you should always have enough liquid capital to cover those payments/deposits.

I agree.