The VSF Submariners Thread

[SS72]

The only way I know is to see what will scratch it. Sapphire known as corundum can only scratched by something harder like diamonds or as hard like rubies and sapphires which are both corundum just slightly different composition. Diamonds are a 10 on the hardness scale and corundum is a 9. Mineral crystals are softer so they can be scratched by softer material. Lots of quartz which is like a high 7 to low 8 on the hardness scale. The clarity of sapphire crystals compared to mineral crystals are night and day.

Your first point is not the only way, and not an approach I'd choose to take. You can confirm if it's sapphire crystal vs mineral using the water drop method. Place a single drop of water on the crystal. If the drop remains spherical when it moves around, then it's sapphire. If it spreads and runs (i.e., gets longer), it's mineral.

 

[Zeta7]

Your first point is not the only way, and not an approach I'd choose to take. You can confirm if it's sapphire crystal vs mineral using the water drop method. Place a single drop of water on the crystal. If the drop remains spherical when it moves around, then it's sapphire. If it spreads and runs (i.e., gets longer), it's mineral.

Lol

 

[muiramas]

The only way I know is to see what will scratch it. Sapphire known as corundum can only scratched by something harder like diamonds or as hard like rubies and sapphires which are both corundum just slightly different composition. Diamonds are a 10 on the hardness scale and corundum is a 9. Mineral crystals are softer so they can be scratched by softer material. Lots of quartz which is like a high 7 to low 8 on the hardness scale. The clarity of sapphire crystals compared to mineral crystals are night and day.

This isn’t quite accurate. Sapphire can be scratched or shattered. If you draw a nail or any sharp metal object across one with reasonable force it will scratch. On clarity, it really comes down to the purity of the raw material, the equipment and the environment used to to grown the crystals, and then cut and polish them. There are good sapphires and bad ones.

 

[Zeta7]

This isn’t quite accurate. Sapphire can be scratched or shattered. If you draw a nail or any sharp metal object across one with reasonable force it will scratch. On clarity, it really comes down to the purity of the raw material, the equipment and the environment used to to grown the crystals, and then cut and polish them. There are good sapphires and bad ones.

You forgot to explain the flame fusion process and use of beryllium and such in growing sapphire. Of course that’s just one method they use but we already knew that didn’t we?
The fact remains that the hardness and clarity of sapphire crystals is greater than mineral crystals. My point has simply been that I don’t believe the crystals in the vsf reps are true sapphire crystals but are really good mineral crystals. I stated that because lots, and I do mean a bunch, of people have issues with their crystals clarity. Instead of buying the $20 latest and greatest mineral crystal that was mislabeled as sapphire or the $300 gen they could find a reputable watch maker and buy a real sapphire crystal. 25 years ago they were about $50 so they’re probably closer to a hundred bucks nowadays. However I haven’t bothered to google it. Considering their cost it’s doubtful they’d use real sapphire crystals especially when such a small percentage of the people would even know.

 

[Reaps]

I know this is fucking crazy. But my method is to take the watch and put the crystal on my forehead. If its cold, it's sapphire.

Crazy, but try it with a mineral crystal first. You'll botice the sapphire crystal is much cooler.

 

[Zeta7]

I know this is fucking crazy. But my method is to take the watch and put the crystal on my forehead. If its cold, it's sapphire.

Crazy, but try it with a mineral crystal first. You'll botice the sapphire crystal is much cooler.

I seen that one too when I googled the water thing the other fella said. Did your vsf pass the forehead test?

 

[Reaps]

I seen that one too when I googled the water thing the other fella said. Did your vsf pass the forehead test?

Yes, it did.

 

[Zeta7]

Yes, it did.

My forehead is unsure. My vsf felt the same as my $50 Daytona shitter. I’m probably just coming down with a cold or something.

 

[Reaps]

My forehead is unsure. My vsf felt the same as my $50 Daytona shitter. I’m probably just coming down with a cold or something.

More likely your daytona shitter has a low grade sapphire. Stuff is not that expensive.

 

[muiramas]

You forgot to explain the flame fusion process and use of beryllium and such in growing sapphire. Of course that’s just one method they use but we already knew that didn’t we?
The fact remains that the hardness and clarity of sapphire crystals is greater than mineral crystals. My point has simply been that I don’t believe the crystals in the vsf reps are true sapphire crystals but are really good mineral crystals. I stated that because lots, and I do mean a bunch, of people have issues with their crystals clarity. Instead of buying the $20 latest and greatest mineral crystal that was mislabeled as sapphire or the $300 gen they could find a reputable watch maker and buy a real sapphire crystal. 25 years ago they were about $50 so they’re probably closer to a hundred bucks nowadays. However I haven’t bothered to google it. Considering their cost it’s doubtful they’d use real sapphire crystals especially when such a small percentage of the people would even know.

I think the process of growing sapphire is beyond the scope of this thread, so it's not something I forgot to explain, as that would serve no purpose. But to your point, I do know how they are made, and I know that not all sapphires are created equal - far from it. And this is also evident in the price of commercially available sapphire which ranges from dirt cheap to expensive.

Some, especially Clean, are lacking in clarity because the processes used by their supplier are not optimal. I don't doubt that they use sapphire - they just don't use very good ones.

 

[Zeta7]

More likely your daytona shitter has a low grade sapphire. Stuff is not that expensive.

I don’t know. I literally paid $56 and that included shipping from China. Not a lot of meat left on the bone for fancy glass man

 

[Zeta7]

I think the process of growing sapphire is beyond the scope of this thread, so it's not something I forgot to explain, as that would serve no purpose. But to your point, I do know how they are made, and I know that not all sapphires are created equal - far from it. And this is also evident in the price of commercially available sapphire which ranges from dirt cheap to expensive.

Some, especially Clean, are lacking in clarity because the processes used by their supplier are not optimal. I don't doubt that they use sapphire - they just don't use very good ones.

I can’t argue with you on that. I’m just extremely cynical and don’t believe anything I’m told anymore especially when money is involved. It’s as likely that they chensed out on polishing as materials or anything else. Your guess is certainly as good or better than mine. I’m gonna find out for us as soon as I can find someone to install a different crystal for me. I found gens on ebay for about $100 after shipping from Rome and have one on the way. You know anyone interested they might should grab one while they last. Just a suggestion

 

[Janes Bond]

Hi friends,
I am considering the new VSF 41mm date in black(probably from JTime).
My question is: after a lot of reading, it’s still no clear for me if the previous version (40mm) is a better Rep. if I’m not mistaken, the 40mm from VSF is now at it’s 12 version so it makes a lot of sense that it is more accurate.

What do you guys think?

 

[diamonds]

... if I’m not mistaken, the 40mm from VSF is now at it’s 12 version so it makes a lot of sense that it is more accurate.

What do you guys think?

Unfortunately, you are mistaken.
VSF is not on a 12th version of the 40mm Submariner.
12 refers to the Rolex series edition.
Size / series / Submariner / Submariner Date
40mm / 11 series / 114060 / 116610
41mm / 12 series / 124060 / 126610

 

[Janes Bond]

Unfortunately, you are mistaken.
VSF is not on a 12th version of the 40mm Submariner.
12 refers to the Rolex series edition.
Size / series / Submariner / Submariner Date
40mm / 11 series / 114060 / 116610
41mm / 12 series / 124060 / 126610

Thank you! This was really helpful.
So in terms of VSF best rep, both 41/40 should be the same in terms of accuracy ?

 

[diamonds]

Thank you! This was really helpful.
So in terms of VSF best rep, both 41/40 should be the same in terms of accuracy ?

Yes.
The next thing is the battle of 11 series vs 12 series, which is an entirely subjective and person to each individual. Some people prefer the rugged look of the 11 series, while others prefer thr refined look of the 12 series.
Both are beautiful.
I prefer thr 11 series. Specifically the 114060 No Date.

 

[Janes Bond]

Thanks!

Yes.
The next thing is the battle of 11 series vs 12 series, which is an entirely subjective and person to each individual. Some people prefer the rugged look of the 11 series, while others prefer thr refined look of the 12 series.
Both are beautiful.
I prefer thr 11 series. Specifically the 114060 No Date.

Thanks
To be honest I’m not sure what to do.
VSF is my first option but I don’t know if I should go for an easier movement that doesn’t request so much maintenance. Where I live I’m afraid is very hard to find people that repair reps…

 

[Pureblood]

Thanks!

Thanks
To be honest I’m not sure what to do.
VSF is my first option but I don’t know if I should go for an easier movement that doesn’t request so much maintenance. Where I live I’m afraid is very hard to find people that repair reps…

The 114060 has more wrist presence imo. It just has more hefty feels despite having a smaller diameter (by like .5mm). The 126040 has more taper to the lugs so it wears smaller despite being bigger however the bracelet feels much thicker since it doesn’t taper down like the 11 does. I didn’t like the clasp on the 12 it felt too big and chunky since they had to change the size to fit the new bracelet. I tried both gens on and the 11 just felt better to me than the 12. To each their own but I’m not a fan of the newer one. The 11 just feels more “Rolex” to me. It’s all just opinion though. As far as reps go the 124060 does have a ghost date, they haven’t made a 3230 no date movement for it yet which may bother some more than others. They are both good watches it all comes down to preference. For maintenance/repairs it would probably be best to send it to one of the excellent rwi watchsmiths.

 

[Kalev007]

The 114060 has more wrist presence imo. It just has more hefty feels despite having a smaller diameter (by like .5mm). The 126040 has more taper to the lugs so it wears smaller despite being bigger however the bracelet feels much thicker since it doesn’t taper down like the 11 does. I didn’t like the clasp on the 12 it felt too big and chunky since they had to change the size to fit the new bracelet. I tried both gens on and the 11 just felt better to me than the 12. To each their own but I’m not a fan of the newer one. The 11 just feels more “Rolex” to me. It’s all just opinion though. As far as reps go the 124060 does have a ghost date, they haven’t made a 3230 no date movement for it yet which may bother some more than others. They are both good watches it all comes down to preference. For maintenance/repairs it would probably be best to send it to one of the excellent rwi watchsmiths.

11 series is also cheaper and easier to franken due to the gen parts being more available and at lower cost.

 

[Zeta7]

Thanks!

Thanks
To be honest I’m not sure what to do.
VSF is my first option but I don’t know if I should go for an easier movement that doesn’t request so much maintenance. Where I live I’m afraid is very hard to find people that repair reps…

I really like my vsf Starbucks but when it dies I’m gonna have that problem too. I’m thinking 2824 and 2836 reps for my next purchases. Not because the vsf requires excessive maintenance but because 2 reps are better than one. When one rep needs some work I won’t be going around naked for 2 months waiting on QC pics. One should never wait until he needs toilet paper to buy toilet paper.