The Battle Has Already Begun

[Sdc83]

I didn’t want to share this because it was only a prototype and they are still working on it.

I picked a few numbers, the top is gen and the bottom is the new AR date wheel, not good enough and I have told them to do it better.

Not sure if you can see from the images, the maker does too much AR costing on the cyclops and the cyclops disappeared LOL, also told them to fix that as well.

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Thank you, Angus. but, I repeat, until I will not see with my own eyes I will not believe. photos of a decent dw had also been shared for the new arf 16610 before it was officially put on the market. and today we all know that the dw of 16610 unfortunately is horrible

 

[m5smg2]

@puretime I think none of the current reps has the correct black hole effect. They have an effect but there is no line visible surrounds the cyclops same as gen.


b25-295-c12-c1 is the submariner crystal. I am gussing the c12 crystal has a *SINGLE* ar coating on one side (inside watch) amd the ar is not strong. And a tiny portion just under the cyclops under the cyclops from the other side. . I am not sure of it. But there is something missing on the reps.

Here is the effect.

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Friend what you are describing is the halo effect—the “white frost” line around the cyclops edge. It’s a great photo showing the cyclops halo.

The black hole effect is the clarity looking through the cyclops to see the dial opening for the date, even at an angle. On a black dial it’s a black hole. On the HULK dial I guess it’s green hole effect, and so on..

 

[pwo]

OK so no correct halo effect.

What did you mean by squared and rounded edge? Can you point them out with arrows?

On the GMT the crystal edge is rounded which result the dial markers to be reflected on the edge same as picture.

This is very visible on GMTs.

But in Submariners the crystal edge is squared. Which result on minimal markers reflection on edge or even near invisible.

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[puretime]

Thank you, Angus. but, I repeat, until I will not see with my own eyes I will not believe. photos of a decent dw had also been shared for the new arf 16610 before it was officially put on the market. and today we all know that the dw of 16610 unfortunately is horrible

Did you not see my pics with your own eyes?

Or you mean seeing it in front of your eyes in real life?


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[puretime]

On the GMT the crystal edge is rounded which result the dial markers to be reflected on the edge same as picture.

This is very visible on GMTs.

But in Submariners the crystal edge is squared. Which result on minimal markers reflection on edge or even near invisible.

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Thanks for the explanation.

Even the latest GMT models (Batman and Pepsi) have squared edges?


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[Sdc83]

Did you not see my pics with your own eyes?

Or you mean seeing it in front of your eyes in real life?


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Mate, the same thing was done with the previews of arf 16610. And it is clear to everyone that the dw of those previews is different from the one currently installed. so the answer is: yes, I will wait to see it when it is finally released. until that moment I will not believe any preview. I'm sorry but past experience has taught me this

 

[puretime]

Mate, the same thing was done with the previews of arf 16610. And it is clear to everyone that the dw of those previews is different from the one currently installed. so the answer is: yes, I will wait to see it when it is finally released. until that moment I will not believe any preview. I'm sorry but past experience has taught me this

The pics I showed you was the QC pics between me and the ARF, they are doing the DW in purpose.

For the 16610 they didn’t even look at the DW when the movement factory printed the DW because they didn’t expect it could go wrong. This time they are focusing on the DW since they are using a new movement this time.

Hope they don’t let us down this time


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[pwo]

Thanks for the explanation.

Even the latest GMT models (Batman and Pepsi) have squared edges?


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Sorry mate, I just got info for 116710 and 116610 but Not sure about the new 126610, and gmt 126710 variants. I didn't get to hold gens and check.

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[puretime]

Sorry mate, I just got info for 116710 and 116610 but Not sure about the new 126610, and gmt 126710 variants. I didn't get to hold gens and check.

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No problems, just wanted to make sure it is model oriented rather than the time of release.

 

[Sdc83]

The pics I showed you was the QC pics between me and the ARF, they are doing the DW in purpose.

For the 16610 they didn’t even look at the DW when the movement factory printed the DW because they didn’t expect it could go wrong. This time they are focusing on the DW since they are using a new movement this time.

Hope they don’t let us down this time


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I really hope it too. Also because the level of the other competitors is high so the question is very simple: or Arf does a great job and finally mounts a decent movement with an excellent dw or people will buy the sub from competitors, who already in the current subs have put the vr moviment with its decent dw

 

[KJ2020]

Rolex has up til now used AR only on the underside of the crystal in the footprint of the cyclops. There's no AR on the cyclops at all, it scratches off too easily if exposed. That's why you never see them with scratched AR. If a gen cyclops is scratched, it's in the glass. I doubt that's changed but who knows.

 

[puretime]

Rolex has up til now used AR only on the underside of the crystal in the footprint of the cyclops. There's no AR on the cyclops at all, it scratches off too easily if exposed. That's why you never see them with scratched AR. If a gen cyclops is scratched, it's in the glass. I doubt that's changed but who knows.

I will have the gen soon and will let you know

 

[Duckber]

No shit Sherlock. Beware of bullshit like this. ARF Submariner lugs are less than .2mm too wide - imperceptible to most. ‘Gigantic’ is pure hyperbole.

I handled one in real life. It was very much not only perceptible, but an eyesore to look at once you see it. Other people feel differently than you do, Sherlock.

 

[philwongnz]

It's not done yet. Only time tells reliability.
A2824 version is feasible but not preferable since the cost difference of the A2824 and 3135 clones is not big, and usually they have contracts with the clone movement supplier and they have to sell a certain amount of clone movements each month so they dont like the A2824 option.

Thanks Angus for the insight, just to be clear I thought I read is 3235 at the top, if they are using 3135 is the wrong movement for this model, hence my question about the reliability when we already seen the normal 3135 breaks down pretty easily with no spare parts

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[puretime]

Thanks Angus for the insight, just to be clear I thought I read is 3235 at the top, if they are using 3135 is the wrong movement for this model, hence my question about the reliability when we already seen the normal 3135 breaks down pretty easily with no spare parts

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No they won’t use 3135, I was explaining why they not prefer 2824 over the clone movements


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[philwongnz]

No they won’t use 3135, I was explaining why they not prefer 2824 over the clone movements


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I see and thank you! If you can some how work with the rep makers to get spare parts for the movement that will be great, as there will be a lot of people with very expensive paper weights if the movement breaks like we saw on the 3135.

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[puretime]

I see and thank you! If you can some how work with the rep makers to get spare parts for the movement that will be great, as there will be a lot of people with very expensive paper weights if the movement breaks like we saw on the 3135.

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The movements are not made by the watch makers, the watch makers got the movements from the movement factories and when there are any problems with the movements and the maker only needs to return the movements to the movement factories so the maker doesn’t have the movement spare parts. It doesn’t mean they can’t get any parts, they might be able to get some but the maker won’t do this all the time. So this is not a good solution, still hope they can make reliable clone movements


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[YellowFin]

Very good! You cant call it a super rep (and thats the future) without super clone movement. Thanks ETA for everything and goodbye.

As far as I understood, "Super Rep" is defined by a knowledgeable person taking a close look at the watch in his hands. If the caseback is closed, a non-clone movement isn't an argument against it being a Super Rep. Of course, a, R factory watchmaker in Geneva will always see the difference - clone movement or not...

Please accept that many customers prefer an Asian ETA clone for reliability and easy replacement + service in the future.

 

[Arik dahan]

The 12, 6, 9 markers of AR are really bad they must change them like the other factories
v6, rx, zzf, noob,
noob did a good job with version v11

 

[philwongnz]

The movements are not made by the watch makers, the watch makers got the movements from the movement factories and when there are any problems with the movements and the maker only needs to return the movements to the movement factories so the maker doesn’t have the movement spare parts. It doesn’t mean they can’t get any parts, they might be able to get some but the maker won’t do this all the time. So this is not a good solution, still hope they can make reliable clone movements


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Thank you, I know we are not a big % of their market, but as you know we share knowledge here. If 3235 deem unreliable, it just means a lot of people here will not be keen to buy the watch. We can discuss the accuracy and aesthetic of the rep all day long, but if the watch simply doesn't work no one is going to wear it out, period.

Thanks again for your great insights and replies Angu, much appreciated!

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