The 1016: The Under Appreciated Thread

[Fpicabia]

I think i am going to switch to this method. The paint with brush and wash does not seem to work for me. I am missing something here about it.

There's not much of a "binder" in watercolor paints as they seep and bleed into paper. Other paints carry a binder that acts as an adhesive of sorts, some more tenacious than others. If the surface is porous, watercolor paints will be absorbed, if not, it just dries on top. The dials I've played with all had non-porous lume. That's why I ended up mixing my watercolor paints with titebond III glue thinned out quite a bit with water, to add the binder/adhesive. This method doesn't let you rinse off the color after the application but can be peeled off after it dries if you're not happy with the result. That said, it's pretty forgiving as it dries and you can guide the drying paint with a sharp toothpick or fine brush.

Titebond III dries a light mustard color when dry but I imagine any white glue, like Elmer's, would work too. I'm considering Elmer's for actual lume binder as it's clear when it cures.
Long live research and develpoment

 

[316lad]

I let the colour dry out and then re-coated at least 5 or 6 times and then did the polish thing to seal it in. Remember, I was only going for a very off-yellow look for my service dial and hands vibe.
Fpic's idea of adding a binder seems very good indeed. I will try that myself next time.

I know it's Raffles but which dial have you got Karbon?

 

[Karbon74]

I let the colour dry out and then re-coated at least 5 or 6 times and then did the polish thing to seal it in. Remember, I was only going for a very off-yellow look for my service dial and hands vibe.
Fpic's idea of adding a binder seems very good indeed. I will try that myself next time.

I know it's Raffles but which dial have you got Karbon?

this one
https://rafflesdials.com/vintage-st...-or-2836-or-dg-2813-or-miyota-8215-in-28-5mm/


I think that I am using the wrong technique for what I want to do. I want a darkened lume, that is a bit spotty in color simulating the lume plots breaking down.

The brush and wash slightly alter the color, but not enough. I think I am being too hasty. I will try the multiple long dry cycles.

 

[316lad]

this one
https://rafflesdials.com/vintage-st...-or-2836-or-dg-2813-or-miyota-8215-in-28-5mm/


I think that I am using the wrong technique for what I want to do. I want a darkened lume, that is a bit spotty in color simulating the lume plots breaking down.

The brush and wash slightly alter the color, but not enough. I think I am being too hasty. I will try the multiple long dry cycles.

Umm, you might be better off with 369's method.
I wanted a colour wash only on the indices to suggest only ageing. Hands too. My dial (and hands) were completely white OOTB.

 

[Fpicabia]

I let the colour dry out and then re-coated at least 5 or 6 times and then did the polish thing to seal it in. Remember, I was only going for a very off-yellow look for my service dial and hands vibe.
Fpic's idea of adding a binder seems very good indeed. I will try that myself next time.

I know it's Raffles but which dial have you got Karbon?

Thank you. I often think I might be stating the obvious regarding methods and techniques I've learned over the years. Wood/metal working and smithing, welding/brazing, patinas and small scale electroplating, machining, painting/sculpture, surfboard building, motorcycles, blah, blah, blah. Always learning, making mistakes, adding, refinining. I've added quite a few new tools to my tool kit from the fantastic free sharing of research and development on this site. The enthusiasm is infectious. The Law of Instrument concept is something I'd known about but didn't realize it had that name. The quote- "If the only tool you have is a hammer, it is tempting to treat everything as if it were a nail." It's applications are legion.

I recently inherited an illustrated book on metalsmithing from an uncle that recently died. We hadn't been that close until recent years and it was, frankly, shocking and beautiful to discover our similar interests and skill sets. Vietnam vet, biologist, fly fisherman, metalsmith/jewelry maker. Had an absolutely stunning collection of marine chronometers, nautical instruments, etc. Varied but deep focused interests.
The book has a great deep dive into how to patina, oxidize, acid etch, shape, braze/solder, etc. EVERYTHING in there on how to work, shape, treat, join everything from platinum to bronze. An incredible handbook. I'd never heard of it before and it's great. For those interested here, it is, among MANY other things, basically an instruction manual on how to make a watch dial from raw stock to whatever ancient to modern techniques that were out there at the time of it's writing. An absolute treasure. That and a comprehensive machinist's handbook on the shelf and you're good to go. Long live R & D and sharing skills.

THE COMPLETE METALSMITH
an illustrated handbook
TIM McCREIGHT

 

[Fpicabia]

Thank you. I often think I might be stating the obvious regarding methods and techniques I've learned over the years. Wood/metal working and smithing, welding/brazing, patinas and small scale electroplating, machining, painting/sculpture, surfboard building, motorcycles, blah, blah, blah. Always learning, making mistakes, adding, refinining. I've added quite a few new tools to my tool kit from the fantastic free sharing of research and development on this site. The enthusiasm is infectious. The Law of Instrument concept is something I'd known about but didn't realize it had that name. The quote- "If the only tool you have is a hammer, it is tempting to treat everything as if it were a nail." It's applications are legion.

I recently inherited an illustrated book on metalsmithing from an uncle that recently died. We hadn't been that close until recent years and it was, frankly, shocking and beautiful to discover our similar interests and skill sets. Vietnam vet, biologist, fly fisherman, metalsmith/jewelry maker. Had an absolutely stunning collection of marine chronometers, nautical instruments, etc. Varied but deep focused interests.
The book has a great deep dive into how to patina, oxidize, acid etch, shape, braze/solder, etc. EVERYTHING in there on how to work, shape, treat, join everything from platinum to bronze. An incredible handbook. I'd never heard of it before and it's great. For those interested here, it is, among MANY other things, basically an instruction manual on how to make a watch dial from raw stock to whatever ancient to modern techniques that were out there at the time of it's writing. An absolute treasure. That and a comprehensive machinist's handbook on the shelf and you're good to go. Long live R & D and sharing skills.

THE COMPLETE METALSMITH
an illustrated handbook
TIM McCREIGHT

Oops, please remove one of these posts. I accidentally posted twice. Thank you

 

[Karbon74]

such a book would be the death of me. I live in an appartment, so no workshop

 

[Fpicabia]

such a book would be the death of me. I live in an appartment, so no workshop

Ha, yeah. It should be said that most, if not all of the information in the book is for small bench stuff. Model making, jewelry, etc. The chemistries, temperatures, ductility, etc. translate to large scale fabricating but are focused on smaller, hand made stuff. Some of the processes are surprisingly simple and logical. I haven't read the whole thing yet. Just use it for referencing detailed specifics about the project at hand. Not for everyone but, I'd say, indispensable if you're so inclined. For me it's like brain food.

 

[dpd3672]

Thank you. I often think I might be stating the obvious regarding methods and techniques I've learned over the years. Wood/metal working and smithing, welding/brazing, patinas and small scale electroplating, machining, painting/sculpture, surfboard building, motorcycles, blah, blah, blah. Always learning, making mistakes, adding, refinining. I've added quite a few new tools to my tool kit from the fantastic free sharing of research and development on this site. The enthusiasm is infectious. The Law of Instrument concept is something I'd known about but didn't realize it had that name. The quote- "If the only tool you have is a hammer, it is tempting to treat everything as if it were a nail." It's applications are legion.

I recently inherited an illustrated book on metalsmithing from an uncle that recently died. We hadn't been that close until recent years and it was, frankly, shocking and beautiful to discover our similar interests and skill sets. Vietnam vet, biologist, fly fisherman, metalsmith/jewelry maker. Had an absolutely stunning collection of marine chronometers, nautical instruments, etc. Varied but deep focused interests.
The book has a great deep dive into how to patina, oxidize, acid etch, shape, braze/solder, etc. EVERYTHING in there on how to work, shape, treat, join everything from platinum to bronze. An incredible handbook. I'd never heard of it before and it's great. For those interested here, it is, among MANY other things, basically an instruction manual on how to make a watch dial from raw stock to whatever ancient to modern techniques that were out there at the time of it's writing. An absolute treasure. That and a comprehensive machinist's handbook on the shelf and you're good to go. Long live R & D and sharing skills.

THE COMPLETE METALSMITH
an illustrated handbook
TIM McCREIGHT

Another rabbit hole...ordered the book on Kindle, since I had a bunch of Amazon credits to burn, and it was only $10. It looks like it's worth the time to read.

For anyone else that's interested:

https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Metalsmith-Professional-Tim-McCreight-ebook/dp/B08RLDJ13T/ref=sr_1_1?crid=201E5JT4OS5XP&keywords=complete+metalsmith&qid=1701215797&s=digital-text&sprefix=complete+metalsmith%2Cdigital-text%2C107&sr=1-1

 

[Fpicabia]

Another rabbit hole...ordered the book on Kindle, since I had a bunch of Amazon credits to burn, and it was only $10. It looks like it's worth the time to read.

For anyone else that's interested:

https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Metalsmith-Professional-Tim-McCreight-ebook/dp/B08RLDJ13T/ref=sr_1_1?crid=201E5JT4OS5XP&keywords=complete+metalsmith&qid=1701215797&s=digital-text&sprefix=complete+metalsmith%2Cdigital-text%2C107&sr=1-1

Right on! I'm an oldster, pre-geezer and love a real book. A book I can hold. Especially if it's a reference handbook. The one I inherited has tons of great hand drawings and the complete text was printed in the authors very legible handwriting. Spiral bound, about 6" x 9".

Saddle up, dpd3672, it's truely comprehensive. It's a reference/how-to book so you don't have to read it in order. Don't get overwhelmed, heheheh.

 

[316lad]

Thank you. I often think I might be stating the obvious regarding methods and techniques I've learned over the years. Wood/metal working and smithing, welding/brazing, patinas and small scale electroplating, machining, painting/sculpture, surfboard building, motorcycles, blah, blah, blah. Always learning, making mistakes, adding, refinining. I've added quite a few new tools to my tool kit from the fantastic free sharing of research and development on this site. The enthusiasm is infectious. The Law of Instrument concept is something I'd known about but didn't realize it had that name. The quote- "If the only tool you have is a hammer, it is tempting to treat everything as if it were a nail." It's applications are legion.

I recently inherited an illustrated book on metalsmithing from an uncle that recently died. We hadn't been that close until recent years and it was, frankly, shocking and beautiful to discover our similar interests and skill sets. Vietnam vet, biologist, fly fisherman, metalsmith/jewelry maker. Had an absolutely stunning collection of marine chronometers, nautical instruments, etc. Varied but deep focused interests.
The book has a great deep dive into how to patina, oxidize, acid etch, shape, braze/solder, etc. EVERYTHING in there on how to work, shape, treat, join everything from platinum to bronze. An incredible handbook. I'd never heard of it before and it's great. For those interested here, it is, among MANY other things, basically an instruction manual on how to make a watch dial from raw stock to whatever ancient to modern techniques that were out there at the time of it's writing. An absolute treasure. That and a comprehensive machinist's handbook on the shelf and you're good to go. Long live R & D and sharing skills.

THE COMPLETE METALSMITH
an illustrated handbook
TIM McCREIGHT

That Book looks like a Must-Have. That can be one of my x-mas presents to self. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

 

[Karbon74]

I am buying it, if i can find it.
Amazon FR does not list it, or for a stupid price
might have to order at library

 

[Gaspacho]

Do you fellows know if the og gen spring bars have a rounded or a plain tip?

 

[Fpicabia]

I am buying it, if i can find it.
Amazon FR does not list it, or for a stupid price
might have to order at library

Just found the publishing website of the author of The Complete Metalsmith
Oh no...

Brynmorgen Press

www.brynmorgen.com

 

[Karbon74]

I fukked up the dial
big ass watermark that does not go away...ok I will need to improvise now

the cold weather is not going well for me

 

[316lad]

I fukked up the dial
big ass watermark that does not go away...ok I will need to improvise now

the cold weather is not going well for me

Did you do the polish wipe?

 

[Karbon74]

Did you do the polish wipe?

yeah. but I think I messed up somewhere.
But I have thought of a solution.

 

[Karbon74]

so here is where I landed after improvised salvage

 

[dpd3672]

so here is where I landed after improvised salvage

Looks fantastic.

 

[316lad]

so here is where I landed after improvised salvage

That looks absolutely brilliant matey boy. Not just an excellent salvage but in fact a massive improvement. I love it. Is that a mat lacquer drop? If so, that's what I'm going to do.