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Noob ceramic insert with platinum plating

maxracingshox

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Yes, but DLC comes in more then black. It comes in grey and silver also. In motorsports applications it is primarily seen in black. But I have had other stuff done that were different colors other than black. It depends on the chemical compound that the DLC is made up of. But it is done in a PVD chamber. A lot if people interchange the terms PVD and DLC, although that is not correct. DLC is Diamond like carbon.
That's true, I have some dlc coated engine and suspension parts and actually find it really difficult to determine a color. The polished parts shade somewhere between the deepest black and a greyish, shiney silver.
Especially dlc'd gudgeon pins look very interesting. It also depends on wether the parts are degreased or oily.
Super interesting stuff to play around with :)
 

FastPaced

Preformer
26/2/17
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So did some testing, my Gen survived, Spongbob insert sadly did not.
PM's sent to a few of you guys.
I will just add this and them I am done in this thread.
Spongbob mod LOOKS exactly like Gen insert and Steve is a really nice guy! So everyone must decide on their own if they want this mod or not and if it is worth the money. I ordered twice and did not get what I expected, so no more for me.
The first one Steve sent looked WAY better then this one, not even comparable. Sadly it was for a DSSD mot a Sub like I wanted, steve refunded my money once he received it after I sent it back.
This second one is a Sub insert but besides being unfinished does not look nearly as good as the first one. The big tick marks were splotchy and you could see a dark spot in the center of each of them like the silver base he put down was showing through.
Steve is a nice guy and He DID offer to send me another one for free. But 2 for 2 is not for me. It was MY choice to test it to see if it would come off easy wrecking it in the process- no one said I had to do it - I wanted to know for myself and I wasn't putting it on my watch with the splotchy tick marks.
Now, there is a possibility I just got a defective one. Other people may order (as my first one looked PERFECT, but I think he changed the process or something) get perfect ones, and if they are not I am confident that steve will fix any problem with it. He is a nice guy for sure. But 2 for 2 is just not for me.
I am not responding to any questions on this, so if you quote me I will not answer.
 

eswilly

Respected Member
2/11/14
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As always, nothing compares to a gen. [emoji856][emoji856][emoji857][emoji857]


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Spongebob

Active Member
8/9/10
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbH16yT_sLg
Here is the clip showing how Rolex makes its ceramic bezel which was provided by smoke

Please pay attention to 0:29

"Entire bezel is bombarded with gold, atom by atom"

So why did they emphasize the bezel to be "bombarded" and "atom by atom"? It is because they are using PVD (Physical Vapor Deposition).

Because the platinum material is first removed from the raw material(target) by the high energy particles(ionized carrier gas) and becomes atoms or cluster of that, which were then attracted to the surface by the machine, this is the basic mechanism of PVD (Physical Vapor deposition) or sputtering process. I assume everyone or at least some of you would know this, as it is the very basic knowledge of the technique.

There is a very well known phenomenon and I hope the PVD experts here could help me further elaborate on this later. The PVD process is highly affected by the gas flow inside the chamber. The material will only reach the surface where the gas-flow could approach to. So no gas-flow, no material deposit. The gas flow could highly affected the effective area. And there are also other factors like the distance between the sample and raw material, voltage, charge current and working pressure, etc. which would greatly affect the process of succeed in coating or not.

Referring to the question why the insert I provide is silver on the back and edges, it is because the insert is covered by the platinum-riched gas flow. As I have mentioned, when there is air-flow, there is coating. When the current passes the front, it also go through the body of the insert and hit the back of the insert. That is the reason why platinum grows on the entire surface. An experienced or practical expert would know it.

Talking about the raw material I used, I am pretty sure it is 99.99% of platinum. And I have mentioned it in the previous reply. There are many ways to test it and some could be done without harming the inserts.

Wet etching, which could dissolve the platinum, is done by soaking it in aqua regia. The process can be further facilitated by increasing the temp and also by applying ultrasound bath. What you would get is the platinum being reacted. But there are also many other metal or material could be reacted and removed in the same way. So I really don’t think this is a good method to identify the material.

Personally I would recommend using EDX, ESCA as these should be non-invasive measures to be done to the insert and the chances of hurting the insert is low. These could be done in many laboratory. From these results, you could get what composition and their corresponding concentration in making up the inserts. This is a more scientific way in defining what has been used in the my and the gen inserts.

Or is there any other better way to test it? I hope the experts in the RWI would help provide some other ways to help testing it.

I am really sorry for what have happened to fastpaced’s insert. I have to admit that I made a mistake for not paying attention to the edge and the back of inserts. I will pay attention to these areas from now on. And thank you for raising up the questions. I do gained a lot from answering all these. Thank you so much guys and I hope you understand my poor English as it is really not my mother-tongue. Feel free to throw me questions if you do find this hard to understand.
 
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FastPaced

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I just want to say again in case some of you skimmed over it- Steve seems like a good guy. Anyone that has had a problem with his stuff he has always offered to fix it. If you do get his mod and there is a problem, he is sure to take care of it for you. Many have already got his mod with no problems.
 

eswilly

Respected Member
2/11/14
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@FastPaced
You're being honest and not throwing anyone under the bus. We have to be informed and we have to stick together on these things. Steve is having success and I'm sure as with anything mistakes happen. He takes care of issues as you've stated and it can only make his a better member/vendor.
No worries here mate.


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watchservicesny

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The back and edges didn't bother me at all as you can't see them installed
The insert were in the ocean and right after that on tremendous heat on the beach followed with hot shower with no sign of damaging the platinum
I'm happy with the results as could be
Thank you Steve


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Spatiumtemporis

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Okay, let's clear things up a bit, because I have the feeling terms get mixed up at this point:
Cvd is a chemical process, which is not involved here at all, so let's forget about it.
PVD stands for physical vapor deposition and you need the following stuff:
You have a substrate (i.e. platinum), an object you want to coat (i.e. bezel), a vacuum chamber, a magnetron and a device to ignite the plasma.
How does it work?
In order to release platinum particles (molecule or atom sized) we subject it to a plasma in a noble gas low pressure chamber and an electromagnetic beam.
We now have platinum particles "floating around" ready to bond to virtually anything on the atomic level.
To make this process more efficient we electrically charge our bezel or put something charged behind it so the platinum particles fly in its' direction.
Once the particles hit our bezel they bond to it very, very strong.
This process is also called sputtering, but there are many different ways to do it in detail.
DLC is a different thing. DLC means that you coat something with a carbon layer (i.e. via pvd as described) which forms a thin, black layer of high hardness and superb wear resistance.
Finally !

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Bozrep

Known Member
2/7/15
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This looks like the best solution so far to tackle the very very bad V7 grey marker insert. My compliments! For me 200 dollar is too much to get this little insert changed. I have a rep, don't want to act if it's a gen, so it may have flaws. But this is a major improvement and you are sitting on a little goldmine. If the price drops under 100 dollars I am interested. But anyway congrats with this great result in making the insert so much better.


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johnlogan

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18/12/15
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This looks like the best solution so far to tackle the very very bad V7 grey marker insert. My compliments! For me 200 dollar is too much to get this little insert changed. I have a rep, don't want to act if it's a gen, so it may have flaws. But this is a major improvement and you are sitting on a little goldmine. If the price drops under 100 dollars I am interested. But anyway congrats with this great result in making the insert so much better.


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For a gen looking insert the price should be $500. $200 even is a very generous offer from sprung.

Reach out to Smoke, it's basically cost free compared. And you will look gen in no time.
 

Bozrep

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2/7/15
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Yeah I think Smoke has a very attractive alternative at a very reasonable price


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pwo

Active Member
12/6/17
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Very glad yo see the profissional discussion between spung and fastpaced and maxracingshox.

Different opinions for different people.
Big credit also must go for spong and his acheivement. The amount of effort and time and cost put in this work not done by other members. At least somebody is trying real plating.

Perhaps rolex is not using 100% pure platinum. Might be a compound to resist polishers and chemical agents. Who knows

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FastPaced

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Perhaps rolex is not using 100% pure platinum. Might be a compound to resist polishers and chemical agents. Who knows
I don't think Rolex is using 100% pure platinum. I think that is why it is hard to copy. I think 100% platinum is to "silvery". Theirs looks silver with a hint of white.
 

Duzza

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13/9/13
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I don't think Rolex is using 100% pure platinum. I think that is why it is hard to copy. I think 100% platinum is to "silvery". Theirs looks silver with a hint of white.
Like this?

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