New PAM312 VSF in the Making with P9000 After PAM441

[ALE7575]

If you are looking just for accuracy PAM 312 is your choice
ALE

 

[bangsters]

If you are looking just for accuracy PAM 312 is your choice
ALE

Were you able to review this like you did the 441?

 

[bangsters]

If you are looking just for accuracy PAM 312 is your choice
ALE

Thank you Ale.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

 

[th0r_]

Any good reviews and final verdict vs gen ? Is this the real deal ?

 

[beith]

Any good reviews and final verdict vs gen ? Is this the real deal ?

Here's my review. Watch overall is good. Quality of construction is good, case accuracy is good, CG well made, CG lever feels good, movement so far is solid with good PR, for the most part accuracy to gen is high - probably somewhere around a top first class rep near super rep status (imo).

Cons: DW font colour is too dark (biggest tell), date box is too deep, engraving on CG and caseback not deep enough, position of CG engraving slightly off, engraving on rotor and movement not crisp enough, movement very close but not entirely correct: escapement wheel position incorrect, jewels different, screws are different and a few other minor differences. Finally ofc, no P9000 functions. The buckle is inaccurate (for those who care): font slightly off, engraving not deep enough, edges too sharp, not as well polished as gen.

Overall, very good watch. Well constructed with good finishing. If you want better accuracy then you'll need a DW change, then it may be super rep status

 

[Repwatchesv1]

Here's my review. Watch overall is good. Quality of construction is good, case accuracy is good, CG well made, CG lever feels good, movement so far is solid with good PR, for the most part accuracy to gen is high - probably somewhere around a top first class rep near super rep status (imo).

Cons: DW font colour is too dark (biggest tell), date box is too deep, engraving on CG and caseback not deep enough, position of CG engraving slightly off, engraving on rotor and movement not crisp enough, movement very close but not entirely correct: escapement wheel position incorrect, jewels different, screws are different and a few other minor differences. Finally ofc, no P9000 functions. The buckle is inaccurate (for those who care): font slightly off, engraving not deep enough, edges too sharp, not as well polished as gen.

Overall, very good watch. Well constructed with good finishing. If you want better accuracy then you'll need a DW change, then it may be super rep status

Okay so I just want to get this straight before I pull the trigger... the watch is visually accurate but the movement has none of the functions of the P9000 (independent adjustment hour hand kind of stuff?).

Also, JF has made a PAM 312 and they claim to have all those functionalities. I'll provide the link:
http://www.ts-station.cn/18028-pa18...ovement_d1c1174d9e0223800ea0f9d1bc0398c1.html

Has anyone done a review on that watch? Is it true that they made a fully functioning movement?

 

[beith]

Okay so I just want to get this straight before I pull the trigger... the watch is visually accurate but the movement has none of the functions of the P9000 (independent adjustment hour hand kind of stuff?).

Also, JF has made a PAM 312 and they claim to have all those functionalities. I'll provide the link:
http://www.ts-station.cn/18028-pa18...ovement_d1c1174d9e0223800ea0f9d1bc0398c1.html

Has anyone done a review on that watch? Is it true that they made a fully functioning movement?

Correct for the first part of your question. Not sure about the JF watch (although balance wheel looks to be at 6 o'clock)

 

[mysterio]

Correct for the first part of your question. Not sure about the JF watch (although balance wheel looks to be at 6 o'clock)

The JF P.9000 clone movement has the balance wheel @9, not @6. It's true it copies the function of the gen P.9000 but there is a trade off of an offset in the subdial location. Plus the obvious balance wheel location flaw. One step forward, two steps back.

 

[bangsters]

The JF P.9000 clone movement has the balance wheel @9, not @6. It's true it copies the function of the gen P.9000 but there is a trade off of an offset in the subdial location. Plus the obvious balance wheel location flaw. One step forward, two steps back.

Yea the balance wheel is in the wrong spot. So they gained a feature but lost on the look

Sent from my HTC 10

 

[Repwatchesv1]

Yea the balance wheel is in the wrong spot. So they gained a feature but lost on the look

Sent from my HTC 10

Sigh, that makes me sad lol. So currently, no reps have the full function of a P9000 and still maintains visual accuracy...what a shame

 

[mysterio]

Sigh, that makes me sad lol. So currently, no reps have the full function of a P9000 and still maintains visual accuracy...what a shame

That makes you sad? Then I'm so sad for you as well. You might not enjoy this hobby.

 

[Repwatchesv1]

That makes you sad? Then I'm so sad for you as well. You might not enjoy this hobby.

Honestly more of a rolex enthusiast but trying to expand my realm. I'd appreciate it if you didn't try to discourage others from trying.

 

[mysterio]

Honestly more of a rolex enthusiast but trying to expand my realm. I'd appreciate it if you didn't try to discourage others from trying.

Honestly I'd appreciate it if you didn't imply I was discouraging people from trying PAMs, of all people. You saying "So currently, no reps have the full function of a P9000 and still maintains visual accuracy...what a shame" is more discouraging. So what? If that small detail makes you sad then you might not enjoy some PAM reps, especially those which use the P.9000. That's what I'm saying.

Nothing about the previous crop (before this P.9000 movement from VSF) of reps using the P.9000 movement is "a shame". In fact some of them reached super rep status even without the benefit of the full functioning P.9000 because it's just something that's icing on the cake. No one is going to watch you like a hawk and see if you use the P.9000 function. But they will see any other visual inaccuracies that are visible (somewhat, because whatever inaccuracies there are, they aren't visible from an arm's length and maybe not even noticeable unless you bring the gen beside it). That's why the movement with the copied P.9000 function did not do so well.

A few years ago, there weren't any P.9000 reps aside from the PAM312/359/351/320 because of the obviously inaccurate movement. Then the factories had the idea of putting deco plates on the existing A7750 and we saw some new P.9000 based reps. The excellent PAM388, basically the Radiomir version of the PAM312, was one of them and then the floodgates were opened and we saw the emergence of the 47mm submersibles, like the PAM389, PAM364 and the most awaited submersible of them all, the PAM382 Bronzo.

They still weren't perfect, but hey, we take whatever wins we can get in this cat and mouse game in the rep world. Eventually we told ourselves, someday the factories will come up with a movement with the balance wheel at the correct @7 position. That day did come, and not only that, but the A7750 became a preferred movement with the release of the P.9010 based PAMs, so the movement with the balance wheel @11 became appropriate to use in the just recently released PAM1xxx series.

I apologize for the history lesson. But I realized that you may not know and so not appreciate what had come before, and how lucky newcomers are for coming in at such a great period in PAM rep collecting.

 

[Repwatchesv1]

Honestly I'd appreciate it if you didn't imply I was discouraging people from trying PAMs, of all people. You saying "So currently, no reps have the full function of a P9000 and still maintains visual accuracy...what a shame" is more discouraging. So what? If that small detail makes you sad then you might not enjoy some PAM reps, especially those which use the P.9000. That's what I'm saying.

Nothing about the previous crop (before this P.9000 movement from VSF) of reps using the P.9000 movement is "a shame". In fact some of them reached super rep status even without the benefit of the full functioning P.9000 because it's just something that's icing on the cake. No one is going to watch you like a hawk and see if you use the P.9000 function. But they will see any other visual inaccuracies that are visible (somewhat, because whatever inaccuracies there are, they aren't visible from an arm's length and maybe not even noticeable unless you bring the gen beside it). That's why the movement with the copied P.9000 function did not do so well.

A few years ago, there weren't any P.9000 reps aside from the PAM312/359/351/320 because of the obviously inaccurate movement. Then the factories had the idea of putting deco plates on the existing A7750 and we saw some new P.9000 based reps. The excellent PAM388, basically the Radiomir version of the PAM312, was one of them and then the floodgates were opened and we saw the emergence of the 47mm submersibles, like the PAM389, PAM364 and the most awaited submersible of them all, the PAM382 Bronzo.

They still weren't perfect, but hey, we take whatever wins we can get in this cat and mouse game in the rep world. Eventually we told ourselves, someday the factories will come up with a movement with the balance wheel at the correct @7 position. That day did come, and not only that, but the A7750 became a preferred movement with the release of the P.9010 based PAMs, so the movement with the balance wheel @11 became appropriate to use in the just recently released PAM1xxx series.

I apologize for the history lesson. But I realized that you may not know and so not appreciate what had come before, and how lucky newcomers are for coming in at such a great period in PAM rep collecting.

I'm just not sure as to why you had to say that I might not enjoy this hobby. I do appreciate the work that all these people have done and I have done some research about the past of the P9000. Its honestly amazing as to what the community has done to create these watches. I don't want to cause any insult and I'm sorry for implying that you are discouraging people. My original comment was meant to be harmless, not to insult the PAM watches.

Being into the Rolex rep area, I am well aware that there are imperfections and whatnot but I understand that its so much better than what anyone could have imagined. When I said what a shame, it wasn't meant to admit defeat or to say that they're inferior, it was in hope that one day reps will have the full functionality while maintaining visual accuracy.

 

[mysterio]

Understood. Let's move on.

 

[Repwatchesv1]

Understood. Let's move on.

So being basically a PAM noob here, I'm thinking of purchasing one but idk whats all out there. Maybe you could bounce off some reps that are your personal favorites?

 

[mysterio]

So being basically a PAM noob here, I'm thinking of purchasing one but idk whats all out there. Maybe you could bounce off some reps that are your personal favorites?

Honestly, I am not in the position to recommend PAM reps, as I have quite a few PAMs and I love them all. :lol: It would be more productive if you listed what PAMs interest you (44mm or 47mm, stainless steel or ceramic/PVD/DLC, modern PAMs or Submersibles or Radiomirs) and we could chime in on what might be best suited for your tastes.

Of the top of my head, I would randomly select these PAMs based on how much I've worn them in the past year; PAM243, PAM599, PAM661, PAM127, PAM372, PAM187, PAM285 and PAM382.

 

[Repwatchesv1]

Honestly, I am not in the position to recommend PAM reps, as I have quite a few PAMs and I love them all. :lol: It would be more productive if you listed what PAMs interest you (44mm or 47mm, stainless steel or ceramic/PVD/DLC, modern PAMs or Submersibles or Radiomirs) and we could chime in on what might be best suited for your tastes.

Of the top of my head, I would randomly select these PAMs based on how much I've worn them in the past year; PAM243, PAM599, PAM661,
PAM127, PAM372, PAM187, PAM285 and PAM382.

Hmm, I don't think I would go over 44mm. Stainless steel is preferable, although ceramic is not out of the question. I would say most preferable would be submersibles, then modern, then radiomirs. In the meantime I'll take a look at those ones you've suggested already

And yeah I know what you mean, PAMs look fantastic, thats why I'm having such a hard time XD

 

[bangsters]

Honestly, I am not in the position to recommend PAM reps, as I have quite a few PAMs and I love them all. [emoji38] It would be more productive if you listed what PAMs interest you (44mm or 47mm, stainless steel or ceramic/PVD/DLC, modern PAMs or Submersibles or Radiomirs) and we could chime in on what might be best suited for your tastes.

Of the top of my head, I would randomly select these PAMs based on how much I've worn them in the past year; PAM243, PAM599, PAM661, PAM127, PAM372, PAM187, PAM285 and PAM382.

You would probably recommend all the PAMs you have bro lol

Sent from my HTC 10

 

[Repwatchesv1]

PAM127 and PAM372 would be the kind that I would be looking for..and those ceramics are making me second guess my tastes. Damn, they all look so good haha