Negative experience with ChazingTime - falsified timegrapher pics, non-running watch shipped.

[dogwood]

Well hell. I love the watch, but Chazing has apparently been doing this for a while. This is from May 2024. My watch but the same exact timegrapher photo. Of course, I have no idea what I was looking at, so I saw nothing wrong.

This is very worrying. It implies 2 things:

1. This has been going on for a quite a while. That’s a long time for Ken to not realize what his employee was doing.
2. This wasn’t an accident. I could believe that somebody might have set the timegrapher with a lift angle of 58 degrees for a DJ which they thought had a Dandong 3235 movement (even it it actually had a vr3235). But setting it to 58 degrees for an ETA clone 2836 is another thing. The correct lift angle should be 50 degrees. That’s 8 degrees off. That means the amplitude you saw in QC was off by 36 degrees. In your case, it was fine. But that’s not a small error.

Ken has said he fired the employee. That’s a good start. But Ken, as a business owner, the buck stops with you — you should have monitored your employees more closely. The reputation damage from something like this is serious. Many of us know what to look for in QC, but the “Trust” in “Trusted Dealer” means that when I tell people here and on Reddit to only ever buy from RWI trusted dealers and not from the scum and villainy on WeChat and Discord, it’s because being a “TD” on RWI means something. Being a TD means you should have known your employee was pulling this kind of shit and fired them months ago.

 

[davelister]

I'm still trying to figure out why this employee did this. Surely it means nothing to him if he has to tell his boss a customer rejected a watch? Not his fault.

Unless he's paid per successful QA and not hourly. Only thing I can think of.

 

[Reaps]

I'm still trying to figure out why this employee did this. Surely it means nothing to him if he has to tell his boss a customer rejected a watch? Not his fault.

Unless he's paid per successful QA and not hourly. Only thing I can think of.

Because probably he thinks its a pain in the ass to have to return the watch, get a new one, send new QC pictures, etc, extra work

 

[MaximillianGT]

Because probably he thinks its a pain in the ass to have to return the watch, get a new one, send new QC pictures, etc, extra work

^^^This!

Think about you are the guy who has to handle all the RLs and angry emails. Extra money is not the case especially in China, to avoid extra workload is the key. Also to make the process faster and easier so that one can get off from work on time.

 

[davelister]

^^^This!

Think about you are the guy who has to handle all the RLs and angry emails. Extra money is not the case especially in China, to avoid extra workload is the key. Also to make the process faster and easier so that one can get off from work on time.

I guess. My brain doesn't work like that, so it's a foreign concept to me. I'd rather do my job properly.

No, I don't want to move to China to QA reps.

 

[Pedalo]

I have been reading through this thread and some of the Time graph stuff is over my head. In the case of the original owner though it seems like a mute point as the watch was not running and his watchmaker said it would never have ran with the metal stuck in it. No amount of lift angle etc would matter in that situation as you have basically got a staff member putting a broken watch on it. I hope it gets sorted out for all parties involved.

 

[rolex4me]

That's a huge problem.

That's not just a big problem, it's shit.
ps. I have already formed my own opinion about the TD in question.

 

[rolex4me]

I read through all the posts and formed my own opinion.

What particularly upsets me is that the people in charge ALWAYS shift the blame onto others.
None of us know whether the (alleged) guilty QC people actually exist.

In my professional field, I often experience that incorrect work is blamed on other employees (usually on the employees who don't dare to say anything against their superiors).
and do you know what I tell them then?
I tell these people that I'm not interested in that (after all, the boss or foreman is my contact person) and they should make sure that the work is done properly.
As a superior, I am responsible for the work of my employees and have to stand up for it (and control it).

So, that's it from my side on this topic.

(sorry I had to vent now, otherwise I would have exploded because I don't want to hear any more excuses)

Have a nice Sunday everyone

 

[Dave2302]

Wow, when I wenna bed last night I thought this was pretty much done, this mornings coffee break reading the overnight posts, has, for me, proved beyond any reasonable doubt that this is not an isolated incident

We all know reps can be a crap shoot, in my experience buying from November last year I have bought around 70 watches from various sources, all have arrived working, and excepting a few from DHG, all matched my expectations or were better than.

So lets look at percentage failure, inside 2 weeks of ownership of those 70 watches, I have had 5 movements fail over a year of buying.
Take off 1 (very first buy), as it was operator error, (me) so 4 failures = 4 / 70 X 100 = 5.7 %
In my eyes that's not bad

Now imagine you sell lets say 200 watches a week but probably more like 1000's or it wouldn't be financially viable !!
So, that is 11 watches in a week to go back, the risk involved of police watching factories, the customer annoyed at the delay, the cost of an employees time etc etc ....

As opposed to ....

Send out a the faulty watches and it is no longer the sellers problem at this stage.
Now, how many are going to send them back, which often involves it going missing in the post, big delays in replacement, even bigger delays if a refund plus currency costs.

Yeah, feck that noise !! For me and others I know here we simply fix it fit or get a trusted watchmaker to repair.

I am not a gambler, but would bet that this has been going on for way more than May and June this year, and propose that the reason for this dodgy procedure would be the extra hassle in taking a faulty watch back to the factory to exchange it.
Perhaps that is a task of the QC guy, and he can't be bothered ?

So, I would like to see some more members QC time-grapher pics from earlier in this year, and perhaps some from last year if anyone reading has bothered to save them.

 

[Mkempes]

This is a leadership failure all along.

Starting from lacking to train the employee to work correctly. Then not performing regular checks, otherwise this behavior would have been detected actively earlier.
And then the way he dealt with this complaint: obviously not looking into it, reacting when this went public. Bare minimal compensation, reacting quite late to this thread ...

I could go on and on.

 

[Dave2302]

This is a leadership failure all along.

100% agree

 

[Geonor]

Lift angles does matter quite a bit. I just wanted to give an example. This is an a6497 which should have a lift angle of 44 degrees on the timegrapher.

Top photo is from TD, obviously not a full wind as they tend not to bother fult charging them. Next is full wind with 52 degrees, bottom is with the correct 44 degrees.

As for the rest of the thread, trust is hard to build and easily lost. Chazing will take a hit from this no doubt.

 

[Dave2302]

Chazing will take a hit from this no doubt.

Self inflicted IMHO, if he had sent the guy a replacement watch instead of messing around I doubt this thread would even exist

 

[Snooky]

Self inflicted IMHO, if he had sent the guy a replacement watch instead of messing around I doubt this thread would even exist

I always look at how a TD deals (or doesn’t deal) with these unfortunate situations. Full blown damage limitation now sadly to either try to regain trust, or even remain a TD .

Thankful that the OP made this post and for once it wasn’t just an unwarranted bashing.

 

[j21]

Why the employee would do something like this?
What was he earning from such act?
@psychospike , you didn't happen to be in front of one qc all that time(looks like it has be done to many watches)
Sorry , but I find it hard to believe it

 

[davelister]

Why the employee would do something like this?
What was he earning from such act?
@psychospike , you didn't happen to be in front of one qc all that time(looks like it has be done to many watches)
Sorry , but I find it hard to believe it

That was my question too. I'd like to know from the boss WHY this was done. It can (and did) blow up so easily what was the payoff?

Edited to add - I have a theory, but it's pure speculation at this point and without any proof I really can't voice it.

 

[MaximillianGT]

Read the 2 immediate above posts, now looks like we are in the right direction.

 

[Dave2302]

I always look at how a TD deals (or doesn’t deal) with these unfortunate situations.

Me too, couldn't agree more

There is an old saying in my business circles, of which there were 3 core businesses, I am now semi retired and just run one small business ....

it is "You are only as good as your last fuck up"

During the course of my work these days, I often get called to other garages, sometimes I can be there days rectifying an issue, and I get to hear the telephone convos between garage owners and a customer who has an issue ....

Customer :- "Since you fixed my Car it's got an issue with the (insert whatever)"

Garage owner :-" Nah, we did't touch that M8, sod all to do with us"

He now has an unhappy customer, who, if he had any sense would not go back there.

Me, if I get a call like that, which isn't often as I do a full check and road test and advise if further work is or will be needed, but, it does happen sometimes ....

"I am so sorry to here that, bring it in as soon as suits you and I'll take a look with you"

Now, often it is "Sod all to do with us", almost always I'd say, but I will show and explain to the customer exactly what is now wrong and why it had nothing to do with the work already done.
If it is our fault or as a result of something we did, I'll lend them a car and it will be sorted for free, or perhaps just charged for a part if it wasn't directly a part we broke or a part that we fitted.

I have never advertised in this business, all word of mouth, and my clients and retail customers have all been coming here for 18 years plus since I moved up here.

Damage limitation and customer service is key to success in any business.

 

[tripdog]

This is something that has obviously been going on for a while. A member posted their QC timegrapher pics from May, I've seen timegrapher pics with the blob of Rodico covering the LED that date back to April of this year.
I'd be surprised if any of the TDs are selling thousands of watches per week, more like a few hundred. If there was a sudden drop in watches being refused by customers and/or returned to the factory for timing/running issues then I think the owner/boss of the business would have noticed it, especially over an 8 month period.
The only reason an employee would make a decision such as this on their own is if they are also the person that goes to the market to collect the watches. If all watches give good timegrapher results then there are no returns.
Either way, in a business which probably has no more than 5 or 6 employees the boss is responsible for everything that happens, good or bad.

 

[Karbon74]

I am so sad reading this.

CZT was my TD for my first purchase ever.
I got awesome service and they helped me out as a noob.
I usually do not mind paying a bit extra for great service, but here it’s just horrible. It’s deliberate intention to misrepresent