How to make a true gilt dial on the cheap - Tropical or Black

[manodeoro]

Wow, I'm always amazed at the crazy sharp results you get from these homemade dials. Film free decal like the rest?

Hi buddy ... thanks for the kind words about my dial work
YES ... I stay faithfull to the film free method as it proved to be efficient.
I try to improve my skills and to control the process better and better ... design / print definition / way I print / etc ...
It may sound pretentious but my secret goal is to improve the quality of my dials to approach those made by "the one whose name must not be pronounced"
I know I'm still far from that goal and I'll certainly never reach it but it's very motivating and helps me to improve my work

 

[rangan]

Hi buddy ... thanks for the kind words about my dial work
YES ... I stay faithfull to the film free method as it proved to be efficient.
I try to improve my skills and to control the process better and better ... design / print definition / way I print / etc ...
It may sound pretentious but my secret goal is to improve the quality of my dials to approach those made by "the one whose name must not be pronounced"
I know I'm still far from that goal and I'll certainly never reach it but it's very motivating and helps me to improve my work

......should never be pronounced .......D.L...........

 

[chrome72]

......should never be pronounced .......D.L...........

So what is the deal with the dark lord ? Don’t know if I have ever seen anything other than people jokingly say don’t Talk about him

 

[jamiex]

So that’s $3 per brass dial. Pretty good deal. Granted they are 28.5mm and fit the nh35 movement. If you use a different movement you can just cut the feet and widen dial opening a bit if needed before using the dial.

Mine arrived from the same source today so I will be getting cracking soon myself.

Nice find btw.

 

[chrome72]

Any thoughts on this oxidizers effect? Hard to capture but it’s like a red/brown color in the shade and almost brown/pink in the sun.
Seen some similar tropical dials out there with red/brown coloration and this is a bit lighter in that color. This oxidizer is way different than all the other ones I’ve used and I don’t think I’ve fully tamed it yet but it’s a start.

 

[rangan]

@chrome72 Truly excellent , and I congratulate you for your dedication, study and especially commitment to the realization . Can you please post pics of the final result, or are you still progressing with the proofs? Congratulations again!!

 

[chrome72]

Still in progress. Waiting for an update in my design thst will better help me do alignment of the dials. A little bit off on something as small as dials can mean you are off enough where it matters.

Otherwise got the blank dials and got the know how.

 

[manodeoro]

@chrome72 Truly excellent , and I congratulate you for your dedication, study and especially commitment to the realization . Can you please post pics of the final result, or are you still progressing with the proofs? Congratulations again!!

ranga convinced me to try again to make a tropical dial
I'm thinking about a process that may work ... maybe ... the goal is to reproduce this

 

[rangan]

Strength and courage @manodeoro , you have no limits and I know you will succeed , we are all with you !!!!

 

[chrome72]

ranga convinced me to try again to make a tropical dial
I'm thinking about a process that may work ... maybe ... the goal is to reproduce this

If you get the oxidizer I mentioned earlier on in this threqd, after you have your resist mask on, you can dab on the oxidizer here and there making sure to have spots of bare brass. Let the dial darken. Then go over the bare spots with the oxidizer and don’t let it darken much. You should have contrasting spots of light and dark tropical effect. I think a dial like that would look cool with an amber tinted lacquer.

 

[chrome72]

Came across this from model makers. They used jax black which is similar to brass black. They soaked their brass in a specific acid to clean it and got deeper blacks from it. Just putting that out there for anyone who tries.

Blackening revisited

For those of you who have had hit or miss success with blackening I have found the following techniques to work consistently and create a durable finish that won't rub or flake off. Most of the products are available from Beaducation, a jewelry supply store that also has great learning videos htt...

modelshipworld.com

 

[chrome72]

Tried being artistic with acids to try and create the type of tropical dial where the center area is lighter and it fades to the outer portion of the dial being dark/black. I was sloppy with the toner transfer as I was just testing application methods. Both images are of same dial just different lighting. Gives you an idea of how you can somewhat control oxidation.

 

[bigtiddygothgf]

The splotchy tropical dials are by far the best ones IMO, those results look great. I'm curious though, what the end product would look like on a polished blank. Looks like your experiments so far (at least the ones posted) have been on brushed blanks and I'm thinking a polished base may even affect how the coated surfaces would look.

 

[chrome72]

The splotchy tropical dials are by far the best ones IMO, those results look great. I'm curious though, what the end product would look like on a polished blank. Looks like your experiments so far (at least the ones posted) have been on brushed blanks and I'm thinking a polished base may even affect how the coated surfaces would look.

The first page of this thread has a polished dial result. It’s the first “final product”. Most of my dials on the original thread on making a gilt dial were polished too. I stopped going through the effort of polishing to a super smooth surface till I get updated artwork. I honestly don’t think it really matters though . As long as the metal is clean it appears to oxidize in a similar fashion. You control HOW it oxidizes by adjusting either temp, time, application method, and oxygen. I didn’t clean the dial above very well and you can tell on the edges where the oxidation didn’t occur.

 

[manodeoro]

The splotchy tropical dials are by far the best ones IMO, those results look great. I'm curious though, what the end product would look like on a polished blank. Looks like your experiments so far (at least the ones posted) have been on brushed blanks and I'm thinking a polished base may even affect how the coated surfaces would look.

Agree with you ... that's why I'm working on that beauty
I'll stick to the toner transfer method but will add some stages to the process ...

 

[rangan]

@manodeoro @chrome72

If I may allow myself , I definitely believe that the final effect has as a background a matte or at most semi-gloss intensity , given that the characteristics of the tropical is the weather and prolonged exposure to sunlight that created this effect , giving the final result glossy I think is a nonsense , in any also the variations of brown are many and I believe that the final result is a burnt brown even if the faded central effect of @chrome72 is potential with the consumption of the central part caused over time by the hands .

I report below the various variations of brown which as I repeat are many , it is only time that can vary and create them , but with the right oxidation you can get very close !!!

 

[chrome72]

@rangan if you were saying the actual finish of the dial PRIOR to a lacquer is matt to semi gloss, i think you are right. As it was most likely black nickel that would be a deep black and not glossy. From holding my patina'd dials in my hand, I would say there are not glossy, there is a bit of shine when the sun hits it right angle, but looking at them dead on they appear like a flat metal.

 

[GenuineFool]

Hi @chrome72, fantastic looking results so far. Out of curiosity, does looking at the backs of gen dials inform the original process? I assume that your dials are all black or tropical on the back, but it appears that gen dials are not. For example, see this one:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vintagerolexforum/viewtopic.php?p=619032#p619032

I will continue to follow this thread with great interest!

 

[chrome72]

Hi @chrome72, fantastic looking results so far. Out of curiosity, does looking at the backs of gen dials inform the original process? I assume that your dials are all black or tropical on the back, but it appears that gen dials are not. For example, see this one:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vintagerolexforum/viewtopic.php?p=619032#p619032

I will continue to follow this thread with great interest!

It helped me figure out that they were dip plated. I have also seen how modern dials are plated via basket immersion and I'm willing to bet it was done the same back then too just because you can do a lot of dials at once and get a consistent coating. When I plate OR oxidize my dials they are immersed in the solution. I think the coating portion of the dials is the easiest part. The alignment and transfer of the resist mask and making sure nothing is on the dial to prevent the coating is the hard part.

the dial you posted almost looks like the plating has worn away from abrasion I am not expert but I see scratches and pencil markings on the back which makes me wonder if this is a reprinted dial.

 

[rangan]

It helped me figure out that they were dip plated. I have also seen how modern dials are plated via basket immersion and I'm willing to bet it was done the same back then too just because you can do a lot of dials at once and get a consistent coating. When I plate OR oxidize my dials they are immersed in the solution. I think the coating portion of the dials is the easiest part. The alignment and transfer of the resist mask and making sure nothing is on the dial to prevent the coating is the hard part.

the dial you posted almost looks like the plating has worn away from abrasion I am not expert but I see scratches and pencil markings on the back which makes me wonder if this is a reprinted dial.

Yes , it is a reprinted dial , the dial base has several layers of different color baths , which underscores the various steps of the processing for the reissue , and the dial is too new to have an over processed base .

@chrome72 do you have any latest news on your progress , I follow you with interest !!!