necro123
Getting To Know The Place
- 17/4/22
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Dogwood's Watchmaking Journey
- Thread starter dogwood
- Start date
I had an interesting watch on my bench today — the new APSF IWC perpetual calendar. It’s a chonker of a watch, but it looks good. But the person who sent it to me said that the rotor wasn’t spinning. I said I’d take a look but didn’t promise I could fix it since it’s a new movement that I haven’t played with before…
Well, it turns out it was a pretty trivial fix. One of the case clamp screws had come loose, and the case clamp tab was jamming the rotor.
The screw from the case clamp had migrated and was lodged near the balance wheel. Fortunately it hadn’t gotten itself tangled in the hairspring.
I re-secured the case clamp and tightened the other case clamp (its screw wasn’t tight either). And checked the movement on my time grapher — the movement still ticks nicely.
I read somewhere that 90% of the time when a movement suddenly stops working it’s because a screw came loose inside the movement and is jamming something. I’m not sure it’s that high, but I’ve seen it a few times now.
Well, it turns out it was a pretty trivial fix. One of the case clamp screws had come loose, and the case clamp tab was jamming the rotor.
The screw from the case clamp had migrated and was lodged near the balance wheel. Fortunately it hadn’t gotten itself tangled in the hairspring.
I re-secured the case clamp and tightened the other case clamp (its screw wasn’t tight either). And checked the movement on my time grapher — the movement still ticks nicely.
I read somewhere that 90% of the time when a movement suddenly stops working it’s because a screw came loose inside the movement and is jamming something. I’m not sure it’s that high, but I’ve seen it a few times now.
Love to see this. As a former photographer myself, I always had a thing for old mechanical stuff within cameras, lenses, etc.Ok… this is a little off topic, but since it involves clockwork I figured I’d share. A few months ago I moved to a new town. As such I needed to find a new barber. My new barber’s hobby is film photography using old mechanical rangefinder cameras. He has a 1961 Fujica 35 EE which is having some issues and he asked if I’d take a look at it…
I got it open, and WOW… old cameras look a lot like mechanical watches on the inside:
The parts inside were all filthy. And I stopped short of fully disassembling the camera since I was a little afraid I’d never get it back together. But I might have found a fun side hobby.
Also - you should take apart an old cassette player, there's loads of mechanics to be marveled at as well
Today I was working on a DJ28… I’m always amazed by how small movements are, but the movements in lady-reps are tiny! The size of the reversing wheels is incredible.
Regardless, today’s project was to correct a crooked coronet on the dial.
The markers on the dial are usually secured with pins through the dial and then glued in place. To remove the coronet I scraped off the glue from the back of the dial, and then gently pried it up using my wooden tipped tweezers.
To straighten the coronet, I simply bent the pins (one up and own down) so the crown would mount rotated slightly. This took a few iterations to get the alignment right. And having a digital microscope was a huge help.
Then I mixed up some 5 minute epoxy and applied a tiny amount to each of the holes in the dial using a sharpened end of a paperclip. And then I carefully positioned the coronet into position.
Regardless, today’s project was to correct a crooked coronet on the dial.
The markers on the dial are usually secured with pins through the dial and then glued in place. To remove the coronet I scraped off the glue from the back of the dial, and then gently pried it up using my wooden tipped tweezers.
To straighten the coronet, I simply bent the pins (one up and own down) so the crown would mount rotated slightly. This took a few iterations to get the alignment right. And having a digital microscope was a huge help.
Then I mixed up some 5 minute epoxy and applied a tiny amount to each of the holes in the dial using a sharpened end of a paperclip. And then I carefully positioned the coronet into position.
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I recently got the chance to service the new clone Patek 240 movement that's found in the PPF Pakte 5712. This is a new movement and I haven't seen many picture heavy tear downs of the movement, so I thought I'd share the pics I took while I was disassembling the movement.
Removing the micro-rotor is simple, it is secured by a single screw.
The movement is a "front loader" so you need to remove the front bezel-crystal assembly to get the movement out. That process is simple, just remove the 4 screws that secure the bezel to the case lugs.
There's a nice thick rubber gasket under the bezel, so the waterproofness of this watch should be good (although testing any rep to make sure is important).
The movement is secured to the case with two small screws at the 27 and 59 minute marks.
The hands are easy to remove, but as always be sure to protect the dial.
The dial is attached to the movement by two little press fit pins at 3 and 33 minute marks.
The dial side of the movement houses all of the motion works for the calendar, power reserve, and moon phase under four nicely finished plates.
The moon phase display disk can then be removed to show the jumping mechanisms below.
Removing the plate covering the moon phase corrector works reveals the first three of the thin springs (there are many) that are used in this watch.
Next I removed the plate covering the power reserve works. You can see how the power reserve indicator works with the wheel that only has teeth on one side. The wheel is moved clockwise as the mainspring is wound up, but can only rotate so far since it only has teeth that wrap around so far. This wheel is turned back counter clockwise as the movement runs down... that's how the power indicator works.
Removing the wheels of the power indicator works, we see yet another tiny spring. There are two types of these springs, some are secured with screws, but some appear to be glued into brass holders. The power reserve spring is of the latter type.
Removing the other plate that covers the other half of the power reserve mechanism, we can see the gears and wheels that drive the motion of the power reserve indicator. The small wheel on the right is the wheel that drives the motion of the power reserve indicator as the movement winds down, and the planetary gears drive the motion from the mainspring arbor as the movement is wound up.
This is a view of the power reserve mechanism with the planetary gears and driving gear removed.
The final dial side plate to remove is the one covering the date corrector works. Unfortunately I didn't take a pic with all the date correction works wheels in place. Sorry. There's a wheel that drops onto the obvious center position. We also see the spring that controls the motion of the date correction lever.
Now onto the balance side. The balance cock and pallet fork are very standard and easy to remove.
Removing the automatic works bridge reveals the click and automatic wheels. The click spring is another example of one of those tiny springs that is glued into a brass fitting. Also, it's worth noting that there's no obvious port / place for a tool to hold back the click when you want to release mainspring power, you just need to hold the stem (as normal) and then insert a tool under the automatic bridge to push the click out of the way. It's easy once you know where to insert the tool, but it's not obvious and there's no cutout in the plate like there is on many other movements.
For the escape wheel bridge there are two screws of different lengths, you can see which screw goes where in this pic:
It's not really possible to remove the train wheels without also removing the barrel bridge, but here's a pic showing the configuration of the train wheels with just the escape wheel bridge removed.
And here's what the movement looks like with the barrel bridge removed.
There is a wheel mounted under the barrel bridge for connecting the ratchet wheel to the crown.
And this is the mainplate on the balance side with everything removed.
Now we're back on the dial side to remove the motion works plate to get at the keyless works.
The dial side once the motion works plate has been removed:
Removing the hour/minute wheel plate shows yet another tiny spring secured with epoxy.
The keyless works is a very standard design.
And that is the Patek Clone 240 movement fully disassembled. NB I didn't disassemble the mainspring since I wasn't sure if I had a winder to get it back into the barrel. If anybody knows what type of winder will works, please let me know.
Removing the micro-rotor is simple, it is secured by a single screw.
The movement is a "front loader" so you need to remove the front bezel-crystal assembly to get the movement out. That process is simple, just remove the 4 screws that secure the bezel to the case lugs.
There's a nice thick rubber gasket under the bezel, so the waterproofness of this watch should be good (although testing any rep to make sure is important).
The movement is secured to the case with two small screws at the 27 and 59 minute marks.
The hands are easy to remove, but as always be sure to protect the dial.
The dial is attached to the movement by two little press fit pins at 3 and 33 minute marks.
The dial side of the movement houses all of the motion works for the calendar, power reserve, and moon phase under four nicely finished plates.
The moon phase display disk can then be removed to show the jumping mechanisms below.
Removing the plate covering the moon phase corrector works reveals the first three of the thin springs (there are many) that are used in this watch.
Next I removed the plate covering the power reserve works. You can see how the power reserve indicator works with the wheel that only has teeth on one side. The wheel is moved clockwise as the mainspring is wound up, but can only rotate so far since it only has teeth that wrap around so far. This wheel is turned back counter clockwise as the movement runs down... that's how the power indicator works.
Removing the wheels of the power indicator works, we see yet another tiny spring. There are two types of these springs, some are secured with screws, but some appear to be glued into brass holders. The power reserve spring is of the latter type.
Removing the other plate that covers the other half of the power reserve mechanism, we can see the gears and wheels that drive the motion of the power reserve indicator. The small wheel on the right is the wheel that drives the motion of the power reserve indicator as the movement winds down, and the planetary gears drive the motion from the mainspring arbor as the movement is wound up.
This is a view of the power reserve mechanism with the planetary gears and driving gear removed.
The final dial side plate to remove is the one covering the date corrector works. Unfortunately I didn't take a pic with all the date correction works wheels in place. Sorry. There's a wheel that drops onto the obvious center position. We also see the spring that controls the motion of the date correction lever.
Now onto the balance side. The balance cock and pallet fork are very standard and easy to remove.
Removing the automatic works bridge reveals the click and automatic wheels. The click spring is another example of one of those tiny springs that is glued into a brass fitting. Also, it's worth noting that there's no obvious port / place for a tool to hold back the click when you want to release mainspring power, you just need to hold the stem (as normal) and then insert a tool under the automatic bridge to push the click out of the way. It's easy once you know where to insert the tool, but it's not obvious and there's no cutout in the plate like there is on many other movements.
For the escape wheel bridge there are two screws of different lengths, you can see which screw goes where in this pic:
It's not really possible to remove the train wheels without also removing the barrel bridge, but here's a pic showing the configuration of the train wheels with just the escape wheel bridge removed.
And here's what the movement looks like with the barrel bridge removed.
There is a wheel mounted under the barrel bridge for connecting the ratchet wheel to the crown.
And this is the mainplate on the balance side with everything removed.
Now we're back on the dial side to remove the motion works plate to get at the keyless works.
The dial side once the motion works plate has been removed:
Removing the hour/minute wheel plate shows yet another tiny spring secured with epoxy.
The keyless works is a very standard design.
And that is the Patek Clone 240 movement fully disassembled. NB I didn't disassemble the mainspring since I wasn't sure if I had a winder to get it back into the barrel. If anybody knows what type of winder will works, please let me know.
I had the pleasure today of working on a gen AP 5402 that’s owned by a member here on RWI who lives in the same city as I do. He came by to return a rep that he’d borrowed and then casually mentioned that he had a gen AP in his pocket that wasn’t running and would I mind maybe taking a look at it. Ummm… hell yes!!!
Initially he and I struggled to get the movement out of the case, but some quick advice from @majwilliams0308 and @Nik19 about how you have to pull the stem apart (terrifying) got me started.
The movement is crazy thin (around 3mm)… and everything is tiny. Normally I use the screw drivers in the middle of my set, today I exclusively used my two smallest screw drivers. I was very happy to have my digital microscope.
It turns out the reason the watch wasn’t running was due to a broken mainspring. A new one is on order, and hopefully this amazing piece will be ticking again soon.
A few pics from the process:
Initially he and I struggled to get the movement out of the case, but some quick advice from @majwilliams0308 and @Nik19 about how you have to pull the stem apart (terrifying) got me started.
The movement is crazy thin (around 3mm)… and everything is tiny. Normally I use the screw drivers in the middle of my set, today I exclusively used my two smallest screw drivers. I was very happy to have my digital microscope.
It turns out the reason the watch wasn’t running was due to a broken mainspring. A new one is on order, and hopefully this amazing piece will be ticking again soon.
A few pics from the process:
I had the opportunity to replace a chronograph pusher on a BTF Daytona recently. This procedure requires a special spline wrench tool.
Initially I bought this tool from AliExpress:
But it turns out that even though it says “chronograph pushers” in the description, the spline size for the Rolex daytona is just between the two sizes included. I’m not sure if this is just a tolerance issue with rep daytona pushers because the second tool I bought (below) has an opening of around 3.15mm whereas the small tool from my first purchase had an opening of 3.10mm.
As you can see the tool opening sizes are very close.
Maybe the metal of the second tool (the black one) is slightly softer, so that’s why I was able to get it to fit over the screw in part of the pusher.
Regardless… the procedure for replacing a pusher is to disassemble the new pusher, then apply a bit of loctite blue thread locking glue to the threads. @majwilliams0308 has done a deep dive on the loctite website and suggested loctite blue 243. I had the older version loctite 242 on hand, so that’s what I used. Remember to shake the bottle first.
Next you want to screw the threaded spline into the case. Note: I read somewhere that either CF or BTF factories don’t have “standard” gen-spec daytona pusher threads. If someone knows which case is non-gen spec, please comment. I didn’t have to worry since about compatibility since this was a stock pusher that has somehow come loose.
Once the spline is securely screwed into the case, give it 24 hours for the loctite to fully cure. The loctite bottle says 15 minutes to set and 24 hours to cure. You want to let it fully cure.
Next is inserting the stem of the pusher into place. This stem has two o-rings set into groves. Be sure to apply a small amount of o-ring lubricant to these before inserting the stem.
Next is threading on the pusher cap onto the end of the stem. For this use a small screw driver to apply rotation to the stem from inside the case while holding the pusher cap until the threads catch.
I wasn’t completely sure which position to hold the cap in while I was screwing it onto the stem. I ended up pushing the cap inwards but had to do it a few times to get the cap and stem to sit properly.
After assembling the pusher it was into my DIY pressure tester to check for waterproofness. My proper water pressure tester is in the mail and should arrive in a week or so — but my DIY tester is functionally the same it’s just more janky to use.
No leaks at 6atm (60m) so I’m quite happy with that. Pressure testing is the reason to let the loctite fully cure. I tried pressure testing after only 15 minutes and there were a lot of bubbles. Allow the loctite 24 hours to cure in order to get a proper seal on the threads.
Initially I bought this tool from AliExpress:
But it turns out that even though it says “chronograph pushers” in the description, the spline size for the Rolex daytona is just between the two sizes included. I’m not sure if this is just a tolerance issue with rep daytona pushers because the second tool I bought (below) has an opening of around 3.15mm whereas the small tool from my first purchase had an opening of 3.10mm.
As you can see the tool opening sizes are very close.
Maybe the metal of the second tool (the black one) is slightly softer, so that’s why I was able to get it to fit over the screw in part of the pusher.
Regardless… the procedure for replacing a pusher is to disassemble the new pusher, then apply a bit of loctite blue thread locking glue to the threads. @majwilliams0308 has done a deep dive on the loctite website and suggested loctite blue 243. I had the older version loctite 242 on hand, so that’s what I used. Remember to shake the bottle first.
Next you want to screw the threaded spline into the case. Note: I read somewhere that either CF or BTF factories don’t have “standard” gen-spec daytona pusher threads. If someone knows which case is non-gen spec, please comment. I didn’t have to worry since about compatibility since this was a stock pusher that has somehow come loose.
Once the spline is securely screwed into the case, give it 24 hours for the loctite to fully cure. The loctite bottle says 15 minutes to set and 24 hours to cure. You want to let it fully cure.
Next is inserting the stem of the pusher into place. This stem has two o-rings set into groves. Be sure to apply a small amount of o-ring lubricant to these before inserting the stem.
Next is threading on the pusher cap onto the end of the stem. For this use a small screw driver to apply rotation to the stem from inside the case while holding the pusher cap until the threads catch.
I wasn’t completely sure which position to hold the cap in while I was screwing it onto the stem. I ended up pushing the cap inwards but had to do it a few times to get the cap and stem to sit properly.
After assembling the pusher it was into my DIY pressure tester to check for waterproofness. My proper water pressure tester is in the mail and should arrive in a week or so — but my DIY tester is functionally the same it’s just more janky to use.
No leaks at 6atm (60m) so I’m quite happy with that. Pressure testing is the reason to let the loctite fully cure. I tried pressure testing after only 15 minutes and there were a lot of bubbles. Allow the loctite 24 hours to cure in order to get a proper seal on the threads.
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As a follow up on the spline tool for the Daytona pusher. Since I was back on AliExpress to take the screenshots of the two tools I previously ordered, AliExpress now thinks I’m interested in crown/pusher tools, and it suggested this type of tool:
It looks like this kind of “collet” design might have a larger range of sizes it will fit. It’s also a bit cheaper than what I paid for the other two tools. So perhaps something to consider if you have a chronograph pusher replacement project.
It looks like this kind of “collet” design might have a larger range of sizes it will fit. It’s also a bit cheaper than what I paid for the other two tools. So perhaps something to consider if you have a chronograph pusher replacement project.
I had an interesting experience yesterday when I was pressure testing a BTF Daytona case that had been modified with a moissanite set bezel. I pumped up my pressure tester to 6atm with the watch above the water, lowered the watch into the water, and then started slowly releasing the pressure. I saw a bubble forming on the bezel but figured it was simply air escaping from under the gems. But then one of the gems pivoted outwards. Fortunately I was recording the test. Here's a clip of what happened:
The gem ended up falling out and I had to fish it out of the bottom of the pressure tester.
It looks like the gems are set in the bezel between an inner and an outer lip, with some kind of plastic / nylon spacer the runs along the inside wall of the bezel "trench". My guess is that this plastic spacer provides upwards force after the gems have been pushed in so that they stay securely held against the two lips of the bezel trench:
I removed the bezel from the watch case in the hopes that it would makes the walls of the bezel more flexible as I tried to re-insert the gem. And that worked. I was able to push the gem back into place (with some force) using a blunt tool. However, shortly afterwards the gem fell out again. My solution was to mix up a tiny amount of epoxy and to apply a thin coat of glue onto both of the bezel lips and onto the plastic spacer. I then pressed the gem back into position and allowed the epoxy to cure. The gem appears to be securely held in place now.
Setting a moissanite in a bezel is something that's outside of my wheelhouse, so I felt I should share. Please let me know if there's a better way to do this type of repair.
The gem ended up falling out and I had to fish it out of the bottom of the pressure tester.
It looks like the gems are set in the bezel between an inner and an outer lip, with some kind of plastic / nylon spacer the runs along the inside wall of the bezel "trench". My guess is that this plastic spacer provides upwards force after the gems have been pushed in so that they stay securely held against the two lips of the bezel trench:
I removed the bezel from the watch case in the hopes that it would makes the walls of the bezel more flexible as I tried to re-insert the gem. And that worked. I was able to push the gem back into place (with some force) using a blunt tool. However, shortly afterwards the gem fell out again. My solution was to mix up a tiny amount of epoxy and to apply a thin coat of glue onto both of the bezel lips and onto the plastic spacer. I then pressed the gem back into position and allowed the epoxy to cure. The gem appears to be securely held in place now.
Setting a moissanite in a bezel is something that's outside of my wheelhouse, so I felt I should share. Please let me know if there's a better way to do this type of repair.
A few pics from a project today… swapping the date-wheel, dial, and hands on a 3KF nautilus. I have to say the Tiffany dial looks very sharp.
I've almost built up enough courage.... heheheMore datewheel swapping on 3KF 5711s today. This is the first time I’ve seen the 40th anniversary edition in person, and I have to say I do love the royal blue dial.
