So true. I feel like this is an N+1 tool hobby — that is, the optimal number of tools on my bench can by calculated by the formula N+1, where N is the current number of tools on my bench.
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Dogwood's Watchmaking Journey
- Thread starter dogwood
- Start date
I always try and avoid this part of the forums because I end up getting sucked into someone’s journey and lose an hour of my life 
Your thread didn’t disappoint. Great pics and details! I’ll be following along from now on.
Your thread didn’t disappoint. Great pics and details! I’ll be following along from now on.
- 13/3/16
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I had a similar experience with whirling hands but it was a dislodged pallet jewel.
When attaching the train bridge I spin the wheels with a puff of air to be sure all pivots are in their places before the final tightening of the screws.
Nice pics and keep up the good work!!
When attaching the train bridge I spin the wheels with a puff of air to be sure all pivots are in their places before the final tightening of the screws.
Nice pics and keep up the good work!!
Never thought to use air. That’s a much safer practice than what I usually do.
An interesting issue came up this morning when I was working on a VSF 8500 Omega movement. The VSF 8500 Omega movement is actually a hybrid ETA 7750 and 2824 movement, where the keyless works is the 7750 part. After cleaning all the parts in my Elma cleaner, I noticed an extra small metal pin (about 1mm in diameter and 3-4mm long) in the parts as I unpacked the mess cleaning trays. I wasn't sure where this part went since I didn't recognize it, but felt that it would become obvious during re-assembly. And sure enough it was...
As I started re-assembling the keyless works, I notice that there was something wrong when I placed the rocking lever into position. This pin was supposed to be held firmly in the hold in the mainplate:
It looks like the process at the factory for installing this pin is to put it in the hole and the upset the metal of the mainplate to peen it into place. Or at least that's my guess based on the ugly upset metal in the keyless slot:
My problem was that the hole was too big to even hold the pin in place, the pin would just drop straight through the hole. So it's not surprising that the pin came free during cleaning.
My solution was to place a tiny piece of tape on the back side of the mainplate to prevent the pin from dropping through the hole:
Then I flipped over the main plate and dropped the pin into place, and with the tape in place it didn't fall through:
Then I used a spring loaded metal punch to upset the metal of the main plate (crushing the hole in the main plate) with the pin in place. These spring loaded metal punches are usually the kind of tool you use for punching metal when you need to drill a hole in an exact location and want a dimple for the drill bit to start in. But I figured the same kind of force would be enough to upset enough of the mainplate metal to close the hole around the pin to hold it in place.
The spring loaded punch was great because it allowed me to use my other hand to hold the mainplate in the movement vise. A normal metal punch would have required two hands: one to hold the punch and another to hold the hammer; so I would have had to rig up a jig in my bench vise. The spring loaded punch made things easier.
After the punch went "bang", I was able to remove the tape on the backside of the mainplate and the pin was nicely held in place.
I asked a few watchsmiths what a less improvised solution might have been, and @Oascom suggested that I could have used a staking set to peen the pin into place more symmetrically. And with that I know exactly what my next tool purchase is going to be
As I started re-assembling the keyless works, I notice that there was something wrong when I placed the rocking lever into position. This pin was supposed to be held firmly in the hold in the mainplate:
It looks like the process at the factory for installing this pin is to put it in the hole and the upset the metal of the mainplate to peen it into place. Or at least that's my guess based on the ugly upset metal in the keyless slot:
My problem was that the hole was too big to even hold the pin in place, the pin would just drop straight through the hole. So it's not surprising that the pin came free during cleaning.
My solution was to place a tiny piece of tape on the back side of the mainplate to prevent the pin from dropping through the hole:
Then I flipped over the main plate and dropped the pin into place, and with the tape in place it didn't fall through:
Then I used a spring loaded metal punch to upset the metal of the main plate (crushing the hole in the main plate) with the pin in place. These spring loaded metal punches are usually the kind of tool you use for punching metal when you need to drill a hole in an exact location and want a dimple for the drill bit to start in. But I figured the same kind of force would be enough to upset enough of the mainplate metal to close the hole around the pin to hold it in place.
The spring loaded punch was great because it allowed me to use my other hand to hold the mainplate in the movement vise. A normal metal punch would have required two hands: one to hold the punch and another to hold the hammer; so I would have had to rig up a jig in my bench vise. The spring loaded punch made things easier.
After the punch went "bang", I was able to remove the tape on the backside of the mainplate and the pin was nicely held in place.
I asked a few watchsmiths what a less improvised solution might have been, and @Oascom suggested that I could have used a staking set to peen the pin into place more symmetrically. And with that I know exactly what my next tool purchase is going to be
mightynimrod
Active Member
Good god man, this is an amazing thread.
I’ve no clue what half of what you’re typing means but I’ve thoroughly enjoyed reading it nonetheless.
Hell, I’d even consider sending you my TC Sub for a damn good servicing from the UK
I’ve no clue what half of what you’re typing means but I’ve thoroughly enjoyed reading it nonetheless.
Hell, I’d even consider sending you my TC Sub for a damn good servicing from the UK
Glad you’re enjoying the thread. If you’re looking for UK local service, I know @Stevetick (UnderTheDial) in the UK does great work.
Follow-up to the mainplate pin issue on the VSF 8500... the pin was tiny compared to the hole in the mainplate, so when I peened it into position, it was a few tenths of a mm in on the wrong side of the hole. Since I didn't want try to re-position the pin in the hole, but the pin acts as a stopper for the rocker lever of the keyless works, so when the crown is in the 1st postion (date correction), the teeth of the sliding pinion are only just brushing against the intermediate crown wheel:
The best solution seems to be to take 0.2mm off the contact point of the rocker lever so that the intermediate crown wheel can move a little farther across to engage with the sliding pinion:
I positioned the rocker lever in my bench vise between two soft jaws, and used a file and then 1000 grit sand paper to slowly remove 0.2mm of metal.
Then I cleaned the rocker lever in alcohol to remove and metal shards and grit from the process, re-installed the parts and checked the clearances. It looks like the teeth of the sliding pinion and the intermediate crown wheel are engaging properly now.
This feels like an example of where the asian clones of the ETA movements really suffer from loose manufacturing tolerances. If this was a swiss ETA then 1) the pin wouldn't have fallen out because 2) the hole for the pin would be the correct size, so even if 3) it did fall out it could only go back in exactly the right location.
The best solution seems to be to take 0.2mm off the contact point of the rocker lever so that the intermediate crown wheel can move a little farther across to engage with the sliding pinion:
I positioned the rocker lever in my bench vise between two soft jaws, and used a file and then 1000 grit sand paper to slowly remove 0.2mm of metal.
Then I cleaned the rocker lever in alcohol to remove and metal shards and grit from the process, re-installed the parts and checked the clearances. It looks like the teeth of the sliding pinion and the intermediate crown wheel are engaging properly now.
This feels like an example of where the asian clones of the ETA movements really suffer from loose manufacturing tolerances. If this was a swiss ETA then 1) the pin wouldn't have fallen out because 2) the hole for the pin would be the correct size, so even if 3) it did fall out it could only go back in exactly the right location.
An interesting watch arrived on my bench this week. It’s a low end AP rep (the owner didn’t know the factory). It has a decorated miyota 9015 movement inside. The problem was the the rotor had come off and was rattling around inside the case.
Upon inspection it appears as though the rotor and bearing block were attached using a press fit. And interestingly, the bearing block was missing one of its three screws which attach it to the main bridge of the movement. My guess is that one of these screws came loose and acted as a cam to lift the rotor off the bearing block from within.
My solution was to use the anvils on my watch press to fit the bearing block back into the rotor.
I didn’t want to leave the rotor block only connected with two screws, so I measured the existing screws (0.67mm thread, 1.20mm head, and 1.0mm long) and found a suitable spare in my parts drawer. The problem was that my screw was 1.3mm long. So I have to file it down a bit so that it would sit GPUs abd now foul the rotor.
The new screw fit nicely and the rotor stayed in place nicely.
Not a typical repair but a fun little project all the same.
Upon inspection it appears as though the rotor and bearing block were attached using a press fit. And interestingly, the bearing block was missing one of its three screws which attach it to the main bridge of the movement. My guess is that one of these screws came loose and acted as a cam to lift the rotor off the bearing block from within.
My solution was to use the anvils on my watch press to fit the bearing block back into the rotor.
I didn’t want to leave the rotor block only connected with two screws, so I measured the existing screws (0.67mm thread, 1.20mm head, and 1.0mm long) and found a suitable spare in my parts drawer. The problem was that my screw was 1.3mm long. So I have to file it down a bit so that it would sit GPUs abd now foul the rotor.
The new screw fit nicely and the rotor stayed in place nicely.
Not a typical repair but a fun little project all the same.
I never thought to actually use the “anvils” for anything. I thought maybe they were just there to protect the press during shipping. Thankfully they’re still in a drawer and I didn’t toss them out.A VSF Omega Seamaster arrived on my bench a few days ago with both a non-functioning movement, and a 5 o'clock marker that had fallen off and was rattling around inside the case.
The VSF Omega is powered by a heavily decorated Asian clone of an ETA 2824-2 movement. As far as Asian clones of the ETA 2824-2, this isn't a bad one. But the decoration place is impossible to remove without also removing the hands and dial, so the watch is impossible to regulate without taking the movement out of the case, removing the hands, and removing the dial.
After a full service the movement ticked again nicely. There wasn't anything obviously wrong with the movement when I disassembled it, so it's likely that it was simply dirty and / or dry (not uncommon for rep-movements).
The dial work was interesting... to get the 5 o'clock marker back into position, I first placed the dial on a case cushion, then positioned the marker so that the two pins on the back of the marker slotted into the two holes on the dial, then I placed a case cushion on top of the dial and held it down as I flipped the sandwich of cushion-dial-cushion over.
this ensured that the marker stayed in position and gave me access to the back side of the dial. The pins from the marker were visible in the holes in the dial, and I simply dabbed a tiny amount of 5-minute epoxy onto the hole to secure the pins in place. I also dabbed all the other marker pins/holes since if one marker came free it's likely that the others were also only just holding on.
With that done, I re-assembled the watch. Most of my journey so far has been on servicing movements, so it was fun to do something a little different this time.
The VSF Omega is powered by a heavily decorated Asian clone of an ETA 2824-2 movement. As far as Asian clones of the ETA 2824-2, this isn't a bad one. But the decoration place is impossible to remove without also removing the hands and dial, so the watch is impossible to regulate without taking the movement out of the case, removing the hands, and removing the dial.
After a full service the movement ticked again nicely. There wasn't anything obviously wrong with the movement when I disassembled it, so it's likely that it was simply dirty and / or dry (not uncommon for rep-movements).
The dial work was interesting... to get the 5 o'clock marker back into position, I first placed the dial on a case cushion, then positioned the marker so that the two pins on the back of the marker slotted into the two holes on the dial, then I placed a case cushion on top of the dial and held it down as I flipped the sandwich of cushion-dial-cushion over.
this ensured that the marker stayed in position and gave me access to the back side of the dial. The pins from the marker were visible in the holes in the dial, and I simply dabbed a tiny amount of 5-minute epoxy onto the hole to secure the pins in place. I also dabbed all the other marker pins/holes since if one marker came free it's likely that the others were also only just holding on.
With that done, I re-assembled the watch. Most of my journey so far has been on servicing movements, so it was fun to do something a little different this time.
Ok… this is a little off topic, but since it involves clockwork I figured I’d share. A few months ago I moved to a new town. As such I needed to find a new barber. My new barber’s hobby is film photography using old mechanical rangefinder cameras. He has a 1961 Fujica 35 EE which is having some issues and he asked if I’d take a look at it…
I got it open, and WOW… old cameras look a lot like mechanical watches on the inside:
The parts inside were all filthy. And I stopped short of fully disassembling the camera since I was a little afraid I’d never get it back together. But I might have found a fun side hobby.
I got it open, and WOW… old cameras look a lot like mechanical watches on the inside:
The parts inside were all filthy. And I stopped short of fully disassembling the camera since I was a little afraid I’d never get it back together. But I might have found a fun side hobby.
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I think there's a potentially goooood market for Leica rangefinder repair. Besides Leica I only know of a couple of people doing it. Doesn't seem to be much info on the subject though.Ok… this is a little off topic, but since it involves clockwork I figured I’d share. A few months ago I moved to a new town. As such I needed to find a new barber. My new barber’s hobby is film photography using old mechanical rangefinder cameras. He has a 1961 Fujica 35 EE which is having some issues and he asked if I’d take a look at it…
I got it open, and WOW… old cameras look a lot like mechanical watches on the inside:
The parts inside were all filthy. And I stopped short of fully disassembling the camera since I was a little afraid I’d never get it back together. But I might have found a fun side hobby.
Working on a VSF Omega NTTD today. I don’t understand why VSF uses the skeletonized version of the ETA clone under the decoration plate. I guess since the watch has a closed caseback everything is hidden from view, but I have to assume the skeletonized version of the movement is more expensive than the regular one. Maybe they did it to cut down on the weight? After all, the gen of this watch is titanium so is quite light weight.
Just read through the whole thread, the only thing I found odd way the lack of staking kit for the clone 8500 (7750 keyless) pin. That would have been the solid fix. (Looks like you knew that)
But honestly, I’ve come through a LOT of these exact same learning experiences through the years and must say, you document them well. And your deduction with the TG software (4th wheel due to 60 sec anomaly interval) is awesome! You know more than you think!!
Thank you for this, it’s refreshing on so many levels.
But honestly, I’ve come through a LOT of these exact same learning experiences through the years and must say, you document them well. And your deduction with the TG software (4th wheel due to 60 sec anomaly interval) is awesome! You know more than you think!!
Thank you for this, it’s refreshing on so many levels.
Thanks for the kind words. And yeah. A staking set is at the top of my tool list.
List.