Dogwood's Watchmaking Journey

[dogwood]

April was a tough month with a lot of medical travel — a friend from university was diagnosed with Stage 3B breast cancer. She has a 4 year old son. If she’d caught it a year ago she’d 100% have seen her son graduate and get married. As it stands there’s a less than 20% chance she’ll see his 10th birthday.

We have a cure for cancer, it’s called early detection. I’m as guilty as anybody about this. Mammograms and prostrate exams aren’t pleasant. But they work. If you’re like me and don’t get checked regularly, here’s your shot across the bow — go and get it done.

Ok… I’ll get off my soap box.

Something else I don’t do often enough is organize my parts drawer, so that’s what I’ve been doing today. I’ve accumulated quite a few vr31XX movements over the past few years. Today I broken them down to squirrel the parts into my spares drawer.

 

[Pinion Minion]

Kudos to having a respectable number of spare springs!!!

 

[majwilliams0308]

Sorry to hear about your friend buddy, but yes a good reminder that our bodies are tough at times and quite fragile in others. I remember an old thread on r/medicine where a bunch of doctors listed what they’ve learned over the years in their specialties and this is what I remember vividly:

- ophthalmology: wear eye protection even if it is a quick job that might get something in your eye
- GI doc: get your colon checked
- dermatology: sunscreen and hats, sunscreen behind your ears
- ortho doc: winter sports are risky
- trauma doc: life is short, and can take you out for unlucky reasons. Cherish every day because not everything is in your control.

Back to watchmaking, I am envious of the time to organize spare parts. I have small containers with 3-4 movements by caliber. Somewhat organized for fragile things but the time required is intense. This looks like it will pay dividends though.

 

[dogwood]

I had the pleasure of working on the SH4131 movement found in the new 12-series Daytonas today. This watch was sent to me from @CTbeforeLP. I've completed the disassembly and the parts are in the cleaning machine, but thought I'd offer a few thoughts on the movement after an initial inspection and disassembly. My impression is that this is generally a pretty good movement. There are some things which are upgrades over the Dandong DD4130, e.g. the rotor which is supported by a full ring of ball bearings. There are some things which I think are downgrades from the DD4130, e.g. the decoration plate on the balance bridge (see below). And there are some differences which I think are a bit of a wash, e.g. the fact that the SH4131 doesn't have shock settings for the escape wheel (not a big deal since the escape wheel is super light). Below are some pictures with some commentary.

First thing is the rotor... it has a full ring of ball bearings. This is a very nice upgrade. Rotor noise is a common complaint for rep owners, this should help reduce it.



Next is the lack of support jewel for the pinion that connects the automatic works to the winding wheel on the mainspring. This jewel is also missing on the VR3235 vs the VS3235. I guess the engineers at Shanghai movement factory don't see the benefit of including it.



Next is the missing shock setting for the escape wheel. I don't think this is that much of a bad thing. The shock setting on the DD4130 is very hard to service and doesn't serve much of a purpose since the escape wheel is so light it's unlikely to damage its pivots if the watch takes a hard knock.



Something I did find annoying is the fact that the balance bridge has a decoration plate on it to make it look like there's a paraflex shock setting and a hairspring stud. On the VR3235 this decoration plate is held in place with a screw that would normally be used to adjust the balance end shake, but here, the end shake screw is functional, so instead there are two screws that secure the decoration plate on the bottom of the balance bridge. These screws are quite hard to get at, and make servicing the balance bridge shock setting a HUGE pain in the ass.



I also noticed that the friction spring for the chronograph seconds wheel had some unusual geometry in how it was punched out. Not a big deal, but interesting:



And finally, I noticed that this movement was over lubricated. There were dots of oil in places where it shouldn't have been, and there was a LOT of grease on and around the column wheel.




Other than that, I didn't find anything that was too surprising. I suspect this will be a good movement if it doesn't have the weak metal issues that plagued the VR3285 resulting in broken setting levers.

 

[KJ2020]

Great pics and commentary bro, kudos. That balance bridge deco plate, wtf.

 

[dogwood]

A very fun movement hit my bench today: the new free spring ACE patek 240 clone movement that goes in the 5712 reps. There's a video out there showing a free sprung 240 movement with extremely bad time keeping across different positions. This isn't what I found at all. I found the movement to have mid-tier ETA positional stability:



The movement looks ok up close. I'm sure there are many visible differences between this and the gen under magnification... but a free spring balance is a cool innovation for rep makers.



Here's a video of the balance wheel viewed under the microscope viewed side on. There's more wobble than I'd like to see, but this doesn't seem to manifest itself in timing errors, so I guess it's not that bad.

Here's another view of the balance from the top... If i got the video settings right this should be in 4x slow-mo.

This build is going into a custom CNC gold case which has a lot of gravity in it...



And because I know I'll get asked, here are a bunch of macro pics of the movement and the engraving.

 

[daytonadude]

Not the 240, but this video shows a great comparison of a gen 324 movement compared to the free sprung 324 ACE movement.

 

[Prizon]

A very fun movement hit my bench today: the new free spring ACE patek 240 clone movement that goes in the 5712 reps. There's a video out there showing a free sprung 240 movement with extremely bad time keeping across different positions. This isn't what I found at all. I found the movement to have mid-tier ETA positional stability:



The movement looks ok up close. I'm sure there are many visible differences between this and the gen under magnification... but a free spring balance is a cool innovation for rep makers.



Here's a video of the balance wheel viewed under the microscope viewed side on. There's more wobble than I'd like to see, but this doesn't seem to manifest itself in timing errors, so I guess it's not that bad.

Here's another view of the balance from the top... If i got the video settings right this should be in 4x slow-mo.

This build is going into a custom CNC gold case which has a lot of gravity in it...



And because I know I'll get asked, here are a bunch of macro pics of the movement and the engraving.

looking forward to it!!!

 

[VixLa3]

A very fun movement hit my bench today: the new free spring ACE patek 240 clone movement that goes in the 5712 reps. There's a video out there showing a free sprung 240 movement with extremely bad time keeping across different positions. This isn't what I found at all. I found the movement to have mid-tier ETA positional stability:



The movement looks ok up close. I'm sure there are many visible differences between this and the gen under magnification... but a free spring balance is a cool innovation for rep makers.



Here's a video of the balance wheel viewed under the microscope viewed side on. There's more wobble than I'd like to see, but this doesn't seem to manifest itself in timing errors, so I guess it's not that bad.

Here's another view of the balance from the top... If i got the video settings right this should be in 4x slow-mo.

This build is going into a custom CNC gold case which has a lot of gravity in it...



And because I know I'll get asked, here are a bunch of macro pics of the movement and the engraving.

Great @dogwood ! It's always a pleasure to read you! thanks for your shares

 

[TheDan772]

Great @dogwood ! It's always a pleasure to read you! thanks for your shares

Wow. I’m blown away by your work again and again, dogwood. Thanks much.

 

[CTbeforeLP]

I had the pleasure of working on the SH4131 movement found in the new 12-series Daytonas today. This watch was sent to me from @CTbeforeLP. I've completed the disassembly and the parts are in the cleaning machine, but thought I'd offer a few thoughts on the movement after an initial inspection and disassembly. My impression is that this is generally a pretty good movement. There are some things which are upgrades over the Dandong DD4130, e.g. the rotor which is supported by a full ring of ball bearings. There are some things which I think are downgrades from the DD4130, e.g. the decoration plate on the balance bridge (see below). And there are some differences which I think are a bit of a wash, e.g. the fact that the SH4131 doesn't have shock settings for the escape wheel (not a big deal since the escape wheel is super light). Below are some pictures with some commentary.

First thing is the rotor... it has a full ring of ball bearings. This is a very nice upgrade. Rotor noise is a common complaint for rep owners, this should help reduce it.



Next is the lack of support jewel for the pinion that connects the automatic works to the winding wheel on the mainspring. This jewel is also missing on the VR3235 vs the VS3235. I guess the engineers at Shanghai movement factory don't see the benefit of including it.



Next is the missing shock setting for the escape wheel. I don't think this is that much of a bad thing. The shock setting on the DD4130 is very hard to service and doesn't serve much of a purpose since the escape wheel is so light it's unlikely to damage its pivots if the watch takes a hard knock.



Something I did find annoying is the fact that the balance bridge has a decoration plate on it to make it look like there's a paraflex shock setting and a hairspring stud. On the VR3235 this decoration plate is held in place with a screw that would normally be used to adjust the balance end shake, but here, the end shake screw is functional, so instead there are two screws that secure the decoration plate on the bottom of the balance bridge. These screws are quite hard to get at, and make servicing the balance bridge shock setting a HUGE pain in the ass.



I also noticed that the friction spring for the chronograph seconds wheel had some unusual geometry in how it was punched out. Not a big deal, but interesting:



And finally, I noticed that this movement was over lubricated. There were dots of oil in places where it shouldn't have been, and there was a LOT of grease on and around the column wheel.




Other than that, I didn't find anything that was too surprising. I suspect this will be a good movement if it doesn't have the weak metal issues that plagued the VR3285 resulting in broken setting levers.

Thank you

 

[dogwood]

Thank you

Finally a Daytona that fits your wrist. It looks great buddy. Wear it in good health!

 

[dogwood]

An interesting project came across my bench today from @Robinbanks59. The idea was to build a Daytona Le Mans with an 11-series CF Panda Daytona as the starting point.

The dial went onto the DD4130 movement without a hitch and I have to admit it looks quite sharp.

The problem came when it was time to press on the new bezel. The full ceramic bezel has an inner diameter of 30.51mm



The new metal ringed bezel has an inner diameter of 30.57mm



The outer diameter of the gasket when it is installed with the crystal onto the case is 30.53mm.



The difference of those few hundredths of a millimetre is the difference between a tight press fit that requires a bezel press, and a slip fit where the new bezel can be pushed on using just my fingers and then falls off if the watch if held upside down.

I tried out using a few different crystal gaskets that I had in my parts drawer, hoping that the small differences in gasket width would be enough to get a snug fit for the new bezel, but nothing worked. If I could find a thicker walled crystal gasket, then I think I could make this work. But as it stands, I think I'm out of luck (and ideas).

 

[xZeroCoolx]

@dogwood I think some of the generic gaskets I have gotten from Cousins were slightly thicker, not sure if you have tried those. If you haven't, I can measure one when I get home and see.

 

[CTbeforeLP]

An interesting project came across my bench today from @Robinbanks59. The idea was to build a Daytona Le Mans with an 11-series CF Panda Daytona as the starting point.

The dial went onto the DD4130 movement without a hitch and I have to admit it looks quite sharp.

The problem came when it was time to press on the new bezel. The full ceramic bezel has an inner diameter of 30.51mm



The new metal ringed bezel has an inner diameter of 30.57mm



The outer diameter of the gasket when it is installed with the crystal onto the case is 30.53mm.



The difference of those few hundredths of a millimetre is the difference between a tight press fit that requires a bezel press, and a slip fit where the new bezel can be pushed on using just my fingers and then falls off if the watch if held upside down.

I tried out using a few different crystal gaskets that I had in my parts drawer, hoping that the small differences in gasket width would be enough to get a snug fit for the new bezel, but nothing worked. If I could find a thicker walled crystal gasket, then I think I could make this work. But as it stands, I think I'm out of luck (and ideas).

Here's a link to an extra thick 295 crystal gasket. But it's height is 2.7mm.

Extra Thick Sapphire Crystal Gasket For Rolex 295-C, 295, 2.7mm tall | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Extra Thick Sapphire Crystal Gasket For Rolex 295-C, 295, 2.7mm tall at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[dogwood]

@dogwood I think some of the generic gaskets I have gotten from Cousins were slightly thicker, not sure if you have tried those. If you haven't, I can measure one when I get home and see.

Here's a link to an extra thick 295 crystal gasket. But it's height is 2.7mm.

Extra Thick Sapphire Crystal Gasket For Rolex 295-C, 295, 2.7mm tall | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Extra Thick Sapphire Crystal Gasket For Rolex 295-C, 295, 2.7mm tall at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Thank you both! In the end we decided to just use the old gasket and bezel.

 

[Robinbanks59]

Thank you both! In the end we decided to just use the old gasket and bezel.

I ordered that Gasket
& I'll install the bezel, crystal & gasket alongside it.

I'll link some picture eventually as well.

 

[Robinbanks59]

I ordered that Gasket
& I'll install the bezel, crystal & gasket alongside it.

I'll link some picture eventually as well.

We will see if it works

 

[dogwood]

A new tool arrived on my bench today courtesy of @xZeroCoolx (Thank you!!!)... this is a prototype of a triangular socket driver for the date disc retaining clips found on 32XX Rolex movements.



Previously I'd been using the inexpensive and universally available Y-000 screw driver, but the Y-000 isn't a great solution and I've still managed to damage (rounding the socket of) date retaining clips by using the the Y-000. But this new tool fits into the socket perfectly.



Here's a little video of the tool in action:

At this point the tool is a prototype and is made from 440c stainless steel. The problem with 440c is that it's a little bit soft and the hardening process is a bit complicated (not easy to perform in a home shop). I know ZeroCool is looking at different materials to get a hardened tool version of these. Below are a couple of pics from before and after around 5 uses (the soft 440c steel is showing some signs of wear).



Regardless, I've already moved my Y-000 to my spare tools box in the bottom drawer of my bench and have replaced its spot in my screw driver rack with this tool.

 

[dogwood]

I had one of the new DD4131 movements from a BTF 126500 on my bench today for an inspection. I can confirm that the escape wheel is skeletonized (like Gen) and that the pallet fork is the skewed chronenergy design (like gen). Very cool to see Dandong do this level of replication.