Decal printed dial

[WatchN3RD]

I hate to admit it, but couldn't give up on the Sunnyscopa sheets I still had left. I inadvertently spilled the glue various times when the bag hadn't properly sealed, so I still have a few sheets with no binder to use. Decided to try some Liquitex gloss medium, which is "almost" the same as clear acrylic waterbased paint.
It came out okay, but it's much thicker and doesn't have any noticeable benefits from the glue Sunnyscopa comes with. I decided to apply white acrylic before to have a sharp white base for the lume, and the final result was great for having a white base, but it really lost the beauty of a mirror polished gilt dial. With that, I misted the final result with a strong clear. It's much more textured than I want, but a clean white base for lume was the goal here.

Just an update. I'm still using this dial to build a watch. Anything before I forget how the assembly is even supposed to work. Still undecided with hands, final lume, un-aged date disc, bezel, case shape, and more. But I'm somewhat impressed a watch is coming together. Here's a close-up of how crappy it looks under magnification, and another one or two in a case under a lamp with decent light.
Many, many issues, but I'm happy to finally be close to throwing something new on my wrist.

 

[WatchN3RD]

Very, very minor update... I reshaped a dental cleaning tool to apply paint and get rid of the unsightly scratch I accidentally put in the center of the dial, installed a sweep hand, new crystal, barely reshaped a few edges of the Milk V1.0 case with those amazingly fat crown guards (need the correct crown in place to finalize), just barely aged the bezel, and I'm thankful for the progress!
All she needs is a proper length stem, a case back gasket, and some sort of band.

And finally, an adjusted picture to show the what the actual colors and contrast look like in person... [url=https://clickpix.org/image/FE22366E-BA8F-4F43-89F6-A7943AB2E64F.hL5CTv] [/URL]

 

[WatchN3RD]

I will not say I cracked the code to Sunnyscopa, but ever since I started trying to get rid of those prints, they've started to work.
I'm somewhat happy about it, but mostly angry!!!

Here's my advice:
1) Feel free to use some cheap acrylic paint without much opacity. Lay it on thick. Don't add water until you are laying on the transfer film and need a little water.
2) Clean the dial enough, but a mirror polish might not allow enough grit.
3) Let the transfer sit in cold or room temperature water for a few minutes after you slide it off the paper backing. It may stretch, so you want it to un-stretch back to normal, and you want all the glue off the side you will be touching to try and align it.
4) Align your transfer under magnification.
5) Let it dry some before you add any heat. Might be 20 minutes, might be 12 hours?
6) For heat, throw everything out the window. Use a hairdryer and only that. After step 5, consider using really hot for step 6.

You want everything glued in place, but what's working against you is that nothing is really in place until it's melted.
2 glues are needed. An "initial final" glue to have everything solidly in place. A second gluing that actually melts everything down properly.
If it sounds like the directions of Sunnyscopa, it's not. The third heating is after the first two work and you can peel off the film for a film free bake in the oven.
All these paints have worked for gluing with this method.

 

[chrome72]

@WatchN3RD have you ever thought about putting an acid on the bare spots where the toner didn't take? If they are clean enough for the acid to work, an acid that turns brass brown would give you some cool tropical accents.

 

[dpd3672]

@WatchN3RD have you ever thought about putting an acid on the bare spots where the toner didn't take? If they are clean enough for the acid to work, an acid that turns brass brown would give you some cool tropical accents.

I've done that with Brass Black. It isn't a perfect match, but it does even it out a lot, and gives the dial a bit of artificial wear and tear.

 

[WatchN3RD]

@WatchN3RD have you ever thought about putting an acid on the bare spots where the toner didn't take? If they are clean enough for the acid to work, an acid that turns brass brown would give you some cool tropical accents.

I've only tried it once, but for other reasons, I redid that specific dial. I think the transfer was too off center so I started over. I'm going to retry the brass black method though. I don't think the etching will deter from the outcome, if it's minor, and I'm thinking the slightest etch might even work in my favor. We shall see. Hoping to try it on this one next, hopefully tonight...

 

[chrome72]

@WatchN3RD when you say a slight etch, do you mean expose it to something like ferric chloride for a small amount of time? What is your thought for a slight etch and why it might help? Very curious.

 

[WatchN3RD]

@WatchN3RD when you say a slight etch, do you mean expose it to something like ferric chloride for a small amount of time? What is your thought for a slight etch and why it might help? Very curious.

I'm not sure what the correct terms are, but the sake of explaining, I'll call this a negative etch. That's what I ideally want.



But because of the blackening process using Jax Black or similar, the opposite is likely to occur. If it occurs only slightly, I think the "positive etch" will be barely visible after clear coating, but the physical etch will still work to accentuate the contrast between the shiny parts of the dial and the blackened portion.

Totally separate from that, I may use a very mild acid like lemon juice or citric acid to clean the surface prior to blackening. That would be strictly for cleaning -- not to produce any type of etch.

 

[janneau]

Not been having any good results with white text dials with decal over a white base.
Either the text was too bright a white, or too much white base coming through the black on the decal.
Thought I'd try a 'silver for white' base, using rattle-can silver (cheap 'Steel Wheels' silver) as a base.




Quite happy with the brightness of the text and lack of bleed-through. Just need sharpening up

 

[WatchN3RD]

Pretty cool. First I've seen someone try silver.
But after many consecutive successes, my luck seems to have run out with Sunnyscopa. When I tried the black patina method again, the patina started to flake off. I also ran into problems trying to remove the glue layer without removing all the text. The smooth sailing plane that was on autopilot has crashed into the side of the mountain!
Thankfully, I still have a few nice dials with the regular transfer method.

 

[WatchN3RD]

Not been having any good results with white text dials with decal over a white base.
Either the text was too bright a white, or too much white base coming through the black on the decal.
Thought I'd try a 'silver for white' base, using rattle-can silver (cheap 'Steel Wheels' silver) as a base.




Quite happy with the brightness of the text and lack of bleed-through. Just need sharpening up

I just noticed you reapplied the indices...pretty clever. Do you already have the watch the dial will go in, or is the dial its own project?

 

[janneau]

I just noticed you reapplied the indices...pretty clever. Do you already have the watch the dial will go in, or is the dial its own project?

Not got a watch for the dial, just experimenting trying to get a decent 'white' print.

 

[chrome72]

was there ever any consensus on how to get a similar finish to the base brass on the gilt dials? its almost sparkly.

 

[chrome72]

was there ever any consensus on how to get a similar finish to the base brass on the gilt dials? its almost sparkly.

so i posted this to a metal finishing group and someone suggested micro sandblasting. I did a quick google image search and it does indeed look like that.

 

[WatchN3RD]

so i posted this to a metal finishing group and someone suggested micro sandblasting. I did a quick google image search and it does indeed look like that.

Interesting, I could only think of two ways to replicate:
1) Mild etching on a smooth surface finish. It must be relatively smooth because, if the surface is rough, like with deep sand scratches, the etchant would fill those scratches and continue to etch the line/scratch pattern on the surface (at least in my experience). I'm not sure if that happens if you are submerging the entire piece in acid though.
2) Minor sandblasting with some fine grit media. I'm picturing 220 grit aluminum oxide, but there's probably a better media. Aluminum oxide can sometimes embed itself into the surface, so there's likely a soda or glass bead with similar properties. Few people have sandblasters though.

 

[chrome72]

Interesting, I could only think of two ways to replicate:
1) Mild etching on a smooth surface finish. It must be relatively smooth because, if the surface is rough, like with deep sand scratches, the etchant would fill those scratches and continue to etch the line/scratch pattern on the surface (at least in my experience). I'm not sure if that happens if you are submerging the entire piece in acid though.
2) Minor sandblasting with some fine grit media. I'm picturing 220 grit aluminum oxide, but there's probably a better media. Aluminum oxide can sometimes embed itself into the surface, so there's likely a soda or glass bead with similar properties. Few people have sandblasters though.

I had people suggest on a metal finishing forum crushed garnet and water as the media. This makes much more sense bulk blasting and using an acid to clean the dial as a step prior to electroplating Vs trying to get bulk mirror polish finish would would require looking for any and all scratches.

 

[WatchN3RD]

I had people suggest on a metal finishing forum crushed garnet and water as the media. This makes much more sense bulk blasting and using an acid to clean the dial as a step prior to electroplating Vs trying to get bulk mirror polish finish would would require looking for any and all scratches.

I agree, but I'm going to foolishly assume garnet and water was not common at the time. Just in the 80's, I'm thinking CNC waterjets, sandblasting with pressure washers, and similar were uncommon. Unfortunately I don't know anything about garnet and water, so I'm just going off stupid intuition.
I think you are on to something though. But ultimately, reproducing the same finish is our goal, so I'm not overly concerned about using the exact same method.

Somewhat related, is black chrome electroplating solution the same as black chromate? Without a doubt, there was electroplating in the process that also led to a negative relief, however minor it may have been.

 

[chrome72]

I agree, but I'm going to foolishly assume garnet and water was not common at the time. Just in the 80's, I'm thinking CNC waterjets, sandblasting with pressure washers, and similar were uncommon. Unfortunately I don't know anything about garnet and water, so I'm just going off stupid intuition.
I think you are on to something though. But ultimately, reproducing the same finish is our goal, so I'm not overly concerned about using the exact same method.

Somewhat related, is black chrome electroplating solution the same as black chromate? Without a doubt, there was electroplating in the process that also led to a negative relief, however minor it may have been.

Black zinc was common in industrial settings. formulatioms for blacks chromate (the part these turns zinc black) have been around before
Sometimes I felt my polished dials were actually too shiny. Someone told me lightly swirling with 120 grit sandpaper might give a similar result. I will have to tinker.


1900 and the specific type of black chromate (hexavalent with chromium 6) were pretty much the only way to blacken zinc in commercial settings. Black chromate also has the ability to turn brown due to its silver content.

The exact formula used by rolex is probably unknown but many ways to bake a cake and at the end of the day it’s still a cake.

Sometime in the 70s platers switched to a less carcinogenic and more stable black zinc which contained chromium 3 which wouldn’t turn brown as brown was considered a defect back then.

 

[janneau]

Another attempt at a white text dial. This time using white rattle can as a base and different GMT design

 

[WatchN3RD]

Another attempt at a white text dial. This time using white rattle can as a base and different GMT design

Now we're talking. What type of white base were you using before? Looks like you fixed the issues you were having with your previous white attempt(s)?
Maybe you were using acrylic water-based first, and then using a solvent-based rattle can "melted" the coats together??? If so, how long did you wait for the paint to dry?
Was it a lacquer or an enamel?

Looks very promising to me, and it appears to have none of the issues you mentioned before. Would love to know the changes you made.