i said US not just exclusively me. i think if you have a hard time understanding what i wrote, then you should go back and learn some english.do you even english bro?
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Cheating at QC pictures?
- Thread starter s3g0y
- Start date
i said US not just exclusively me. i think if you have a hard time understanding what i wrote, then you should go back and learn some english.do you even english bro?
I don't see the need for insults, op posted a thread, it's a open forum and we are all entitled to post our own opinion or experiences, why does it need to take a turn to personal insults or even question a members knowledge of the English language?
Sent from my iPhone 5 Using TapaTalk2 S???R?I?????
Questioning my English leprechaun ? Not a good idea. No one on this forum is so special that a dealer should serve them. Its 2013 Lucky Charms. Slavery is illegal in most countries.
A discussion, debate or whatever it is call should not have include any insulting in it, to call someone an asshole just because he doesn't agree with what you say is absolutely not needed imo. Not siding anyone, just my opinion.
I've been reading this thread with interest and posted earlier to say that I thought this was a bit of a naughty trick being pulled by either a TD, his/her employee or someone at the factory.
The more I come to think about it, the more I agree with TB and sympathise with the TDs, as well as the OP.
Is setting out to trick someone wrong? Yes, no issues with stating that, however, why has someone felt the need to do this?
In my eyes it is to do with the point rasied by TB above. I'm sure 99% of reps have a flaw which is not 'designed in', i.e. left over from the manufacturing process rather than CGs which are too short, lettering too high on the dial, etc.. In a perfect world, the TD hand selects a watch which meets their standards, which are no doubt based on an inspection using the Mk1 Human Eyeball and their knowledge of the model and factory. I'm pretty sure they can't spend an hour looking at each watch, so a swift but thorough look over is all it gets.
They then take macro, high res images of it to send to us, and this is where the problems start... What they couldn't see either without a loupe or without spending all day looking at every single detail now "jumps off the screen" to an eagerly awaiting watch geek, who then wants another one when 15 other people have pointed out every speck of dust on the dial! In reality these 'flaws' are invisible during normal use.
Don't think I'm trivialising the issue here, in my opinion, people have been less than honest in an industry which only works (at the TD to customer end) when everyone is seen to be honest, and this is a problem.
As TB says, this is all down to QC pics, I don't request them and I don't hold any real faith in them, how do you even know it is your watch? If my TD says the watch is ok, it has always been good enough for me, if I deal with someone in the future and his/her standards don't meet mine, I won't deal with them again.
It annoys me when people say "get real, its a rep" or "you're expecting gen quality" as I don't believe people are, they simply want what they've seen advertised on a website or in a picture on this forum, and a mark on the dial, pube under the crystal or an off-centre pearl are not that, so we have a duty to raise a flag if we receive goods which are not 'as advertised', as this (as others have rightly pointed out) is how the rep industry has improved its standards, and failing to do so would invite a slip.
This is a no-win situation for the TDs as far as I'm concerned, if they get so picky that they reject everything a factory has to offer, the prices will go up (which we all moan about), however, if they accept something with a very minor (even invisible to the naked eye) flaw which is then visible in a QC pic, they get moaned at by us!
My solution would be for TDs to only send QC pics if they see a flaw which MIGHT be detectable in normal use, then the customer can either accept, refuse or negotiate a discount. Failing that, lets start paying them for an additional detailed inspection. I'd give my TD an extra $20 for him to spend 30 minutes really looking at a watch and assuring me that there are either no visible flaws, or giving me the details of anything he has see. Full disclosure which no one can then argue with.
As a case in point, I noticed a chunk of debris on my PAM 292 dial the other day. I've had the watch over a year and this has always been there. Did I get QC pics? No. Did I notice it when I received the watch? No. Am I going to try to send it back? No. Will anyone in the real world ever notice it, even if I let them handle the watch? No. Does it now bug me? YES! However, it doesn't stop me wearing a watch I love and I'll take the movement out one day and remove it.
This is a 'game' which is about building relationships at every level. I'm fortunate enough to now have a dealer I trust, who gives me what I consider to be good advice and has sent me what I've asked for every time and, if I do ever have a problem, I'm pretty sure he'd sort out with minimum fuss.
As far as I'm concerend, these debates are healthy when conducted in the right way (as I think the OP intended), and both buyers and TDs can take a lot away from them, however, they are pointless when they end up as name calling and mud slinging contests.
Sorry to interrupt. Just read the whole thread.
From my understanding this is not to do with solving the problem by this or the other TD. No one is questioning their ability and willingness to solve the problems. It's more to do with them bulshitting us no matter if we are their returning customers or newbies.
From my perspective it looks like...:
"OK, one guy wants a 300 SLR rep. OK I got it. I only have to take this bloody qc pics. Ooops... the logo is crappy. Shit! Well... let's try to hide it with the minute hand. Maybe he is not that anal and will not moan... In worst case I will offer him a new dial... OK, what we got next?"
Maybe some of you guys like to be treated like that. Maybe some of you would do exactly the same and this is why you are justifying such behaviours. But fortunately there are also some who understand it the right way:
cheers!
From my understanding this is not to do with solving the problem by this or the other TD. No one is questioning their ability and willingness to solve the problems. It's more to do with them bulshitting us no matter if we are their returning customers or newbies.
From my perspective it looks like...:
"OK, one guy wants a 300 SLR rep. OK I got it. I only have to take this bloody qc pics. Ooops... the logo is crappy. Shit! Well... let's try to hide it with the minute hand. Maybe he is not that anal and will not moan... In worst case I will offer him a new dial... OK, what we got next?"
Maybe some of you guys like to be treated like that. Maybe some of you would do exactly the same and this is why you are justifying such behaviours. But fortunately there are also some who understand it the right way:
[...]How are you suppose to see when the hands are blocking..coincident? too coincident isn't it!?
it's unacceptable imo,[...] I hope the runners would open their eyes big enuff to reject flaws, but not move the hands to take cover the flaws and pass on to customers..icard:
cheers!
I don't see anything wrong with him asking if he was being tricked by Ryan. If he did then plenty of others would chime in with the same outing Ryan as a bad dealer. But as we can clearly see plenty chime in saying Ryan is a stand out dealer. So the question asked and answered. Asking the question only protects us all from td's not being honest. Ryan should have nothing to worry about reading all the great comments here. He just got some free advertising!
Sent from my iPhone because I'm such a addict I have to keep on here even when I'm not home.
Sent from my iPhone because I'm such a addict I have to keep on here even when I'm not home.
The whole thing is NOT about Ryan! Don't you get that? Ryan is and remains one of the top TDs over here. And I love him.
This is not the Ryan's feedback section! This is a general discussion rather about the definition of the word "Trusted" when we talk about dealers in general.
Some people may be confused thinking that the person you trust should be honest with you.
I think that Domi got it right.
Sh*t! I was supposed to shut up! Grr......
This is not the Ryan's feedback section! This is a general discussion rather about the definition of the word "Trusted" when we talk about dealers in general.
Some people may be confused thinking that the person you trust should be honest with you.
I think that Domi got it right.
Sh*t! I was supposed to shut up! Grr......
I removed my post, since I read on beyond the post i replied to and saw how negatively the thread went. No point creating a sh**show online.
wow .. ive also read this from the first post and ryan is my dealer of choice and many time he as advised me to wait for a new version that is coming out .. here is a qc pic from ryan .. i dont see him hiding any flaws here by placing the minute hand to cover up the crocked @12 markers ....He very honest up front dealer !! and not hear to cheat anyone !!
do you see anything being hidden here ?
do you see anything being hidden here ?
Ok maybe I should of said it is ok to ask if your being tricked by Ryan or any TD. Not a problem to ask the question. Cause If there is some dishonest activity going on asking will bring it out. If the TD is a honest great dealer that will come out as well. So again asking the question I think is fine. THE ONLY STUPID QUESTION IS THE ONE YOU DON'T ASK! I didn't read this post as accusing anyone only asking if this is happening a lot to see if its what it looks like or just a mistake.
Sent from my iPad cause I'm to lazy to sit at a computer.
Not that my opinion matters much around here, but.....
For the prices some of these watches cost, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect sellers whom want to be called "trusted dealers" to take a few minutes out of their day per watch to inspect it under a 10x loupe with their experienced eyes for obvious manufacturing defects like the one the OP had, to check that the watch works and does indeed keep time reasonably.
The "this is a rep" argument holds no water. This is a product, same as any other.
If anyone were to purchase any product with manufacturing defects such as this, they would, and should be, entitled to return the product, exchange the product or be issued a discount or refund.
We are all aware of the non manufacturing flaws that will likely come with these replica products.
We shouldn't have to additionally deal with obvious manufacturing defects due to poor quality control on either the manufacturers or the dealers end.
The service issue is a two way street. We are here to serve the TD's by buying their products and do so according to theirs and the forums rules.
They are here to serve us by procuring the items wanted in the quantities requested and getting them to us in the timeliest and safest manner possible.
I think the OP's question was legitimate and brought to light in a honest and forthright manner. He didnt outright accuse anyone of anything, but posed a question to see if it could be a common occurrence.
Whether or not any dealer hides flaws a purposeful act should be the question and If so, steps should be taken on their end to rectify the problem before it becomes a problem to the extent that it ruins their reputation or the admins here need to step in.
For the prices some of these watches cost, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect sellers whom want to be called "trusted dealers" to take a few minutes out of their day per watch to inspect it under a 10x loupe with their experienced eyes for obvious manufacturing defects like the one the OP had, to check that the watch works and does indeed keep time reasonably.
The "this is a rep" argument holds no water. This is a product, same as any other.
If anyone were to purchase any product with manufacturing defects such as this, they would, and should be, entitled to return the product, exchange the product or be issued a discount or refund.
We are all aware of the non manufacturing flaws that will likely come with these replica products.
We shouldn't have to additionally deal with obvious manufacturing defects due to poor quality control on either the manufacturers or the dealers end.
The service issue is a two way street. We are here to serve the TD's by buying their products and do so according to theirs and the forums rules.
They are here to serve us by procuring the items wanted in the quantities requested and getting them to us in the timeliest and safest manner possible.
I think the OP's question was legitimate and brought to light in a honest and forthright manner. He didnt outright accuse anyone of anything, but posed a question to see if it could be a common occurrence.
Whether or not any dealer hides flaws a purposeful act should be the question and If so, steps should be taken on their end to rectify the problem before it becomes a problem to the extent that it ruins their reputation or the admins here need to step in.
wow .. ive also read this from the first post and ryan is my dealer of choice and many time he as advised me to wait for a new version that is coming out .. here is a qc pic from ryan .. i dont see him hiding any flaws here by placing the minute hand to cover up the crocked @12 markers ....He very honest up front dealer !! and not hear to cheat anyone !!
do you see anything being hidden here ?
Plus uno
I love reading conspiracy theories though. Keep it up!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
To answer the OP, I have had this happen to me a couple of times.
PureTime sent me a picture of a watch at an angle yet the date was sunken AND centered in the window. When I asked for a straight shot, they changed the date to a single digit number so the bad alignment wouldn't be so obvious. I accepted anyways because it wasn't horrible.
Toro sent me a perfect looking qc picture, but the minute hand was positioned to hide an eyelash stuck to the dial.
It's the same as a restaurant burning your food and putting the burnt side down and smothering it with sauce and garnish. It sucks, but it's very common.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
PureTime sent me a picture of a watch at an angle yet the date was sunken AND centered in the window. When I asked for a straight shot, they changed the date to a single digit number so the bad alignment wouldn't be so obvious. I accepted anyways because it wasn't horrible.
Toro sent me a perfect looking qc picture, but the minute hand was positioned to hide an eyelash stuck to the dial.
It's the same as a restaurant burning your food and putting the burnt side down and smothering it with sauce and garnish. It sucks, but it's very common.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
+1
Have had two instances (with two seperate dealers) of not receiving a timegrapher pic with my QC pics on a certain watch, didn't say anything, and received in one case a watch with a movement running lol fast (like 5 minutes for every actual minute) and one that was supposed to be a 2836 clone show up a 21j.
I have since then obviously become more insistent on that pic, and had an instance where when writing back to ask for it, the dealers staff "suddenly" discovered there was a problem with the watch movement and asked me to wait several days while they exchanged it with the factory. *rolleyes*
This stuff happens - like you said, sucks, but it happens.
Not sure why everyone is trashing OP though for having a perceived problem and bringing it to light - I thought this was supposed to be the forum where people could be open and honest about their experiences with dealers, without fear of repercussions.
Maybe the OP is wrong, maybe he's not - obviously nobody is ever going to know for sure but the person who took the pics. But I'm always hearing that people should feel free to bring this experiences into the open here, so live up to it and stop crapping on the guy for doing so.
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Where on God's green earth did you get the idea you are entitled to a timegrapher pic? Until a couple of years ago we got nothing at all. If you were very lucky you got a tracking number. This QC shit is beginning to get stupid.
5x faster than usual is not a regulation issue mate, the watch has become magnetised in transit or has a bound hairspring. In the first instance a quick trip thru a de-mag will fix it, in the second a slap on the palm of your hand.
In the case of the 21j someone picked the wrong watch. No dealer is going to deliberately send a 21j instead of a clone. They know full well a forum member usually knows the difference and then they have the expense of an exchange and the bad publicity. Mistakes happen.
In both cases, I ordered 5-6 watches, and those were the only ones of the bunch without a timegrapher pic.
The super fast one was not magnetized, nor did it have a tangled harspring. I sent it to vac, and he couldnt even service the movement back to life, it had to be replaced with a new one.
The 21j, hey, who knows. I like to believe the best in people too, but when you get half a dozen watches and they all have a TG pic except one, and that's the one that ends up wrong in a way the TG pic would have shown, what would you think happened? It's not an unreasonable suspicion.
Edit: BTW - I'll just add, that the dealer who sent me the busted movement, refunded me a bit towards the cost of the new movement, and the 21j I didn't realize it for almost 6 months (the watch was going to my dad) so I never even brought it up to that dealer. I'm sure if I had noticed it right away he would have made good on it. The instance where I went back and insisted, obviously they replaced the watch with the factory as I already said.
My point here wasn't to say that these guys won't fix problems if you bring them to your attention - obviously they will. But I have seen enough shady borderline behavior at times to have my suspicions that they play the odds on how many people will bother to come back to them vs how many won't.