Building a 5513 - Tutorial

[Karbon74]

thanks. to be honest, I already ordered a remplacement Seagull movement

 

[manodeoro]

thanks. to be honest, I already ordered a remplacement Seagull movement

If I may say so ... ordering a new movement won't solve your problem as you may mess up the keyless works again on it (I hope not of course )
So maybe you should slow down the order flow a bit and take some time to learn how to work on a movement ... lesson learned from my own experience.

When I started playing with watches 7 years ago I made the same error ... destroying a movement and ordering a new one ... just to destroy it the same
Then I decided to learn, read a bunch of technical threads here and on others forums (Watch Repair Talk is a great one) and try to repair all the broken movements that pilled in my drawers.
After some months I was able to correctly reassemble an ETA keyless works ... some months later I could virtually do that blindfolded.
Some more months of practice and I achieved to disassembly / service / reassmebly a complete ETA movement, then even a DG2813 movement (which proved to be madly more difficult to work on than ETAs).
After years of practice I now feel almost easy with any 3 hands movement (chronographs are still difficult to deal with), with or without maintenance manuel.
And this weekend I achieved to regulate a 53 years old Seiko 7005A movement to +3s/day ... which is, IMHO, a "more than decent" result.

Same learning process with dial making ...
December 2017 I made what I consider to be my first "correct" dial ... a 5513 "Serpico Y Laino" one ...

Last week I finished a gen specs (gen size, curvature and dial feet position) Tudor Ranger dial ... much better if I may say so ...

 

[Karbon74]

no issue and thanks for the tips as always

I might have been unclear.
It was never my intention to get into movements and stuff.

The reason why I got into this situation is that I had originally damaged the crown tube, and by ripple effect, things happened.

I have done quite a few movement swaps including on 2824 and 2836 without issues

 

[369mafia]

no issue and thanks for the tips as always

I might have been unclear.
It was never my intention to get into movements and stuff.

The reason why I got into this situation is that I had originally damaged the crown tube, and by ripple effect, things happened.

I have done quite a few movement swaps including on 2824 and 2836 without issues

When it rains , it pours sometimes. We have all been there lol

I was the worst when it came to movements.. I would order 2 movements for every build cause I anticipated messing up the first keyless LOL Then while on lockdown in 2020 I decided to learn it and now I too can fix a keyless in 5 mins or less - its usually when you are doing a final assembly and re-casing the movement when you realize you have messed up the keyless so its a bit frustrating when have to remove dial and hands again to fix it.

I have not taken the step to service movements yet , but perhaps as I progress in this hobby I may venture into it

 

[Karbon74]

When it rains , it pours sometimes. We have all been there lol

I was the worst when it came to movements.. I would order 2 movements for every build cause I anticipated messing up the first keyless LOL Then while on lockdown in 2020 I decided to learn it and now I too can fix a keyless in 5 mins or less - its usually when you are doing a final assembly and re-casing the movement when you realize you have messed up the keyless so its a bit frustrating when have to remove dial and hands again to fix it.

I have not taken the step to service movements yet , but perhaps as I progress in this hobby I may venture into it

I am exactly the same as you.
In fact, I was almost "happy" to have a reason to tinker a movement

servicing a movement does not seem as fun as shaping a case, or aging work. I might get into lume work.

I read that the fragile keyless is mostly a low cost clone thing and that Seagulls/Gen Eta have less of that problem

 

[manodeoro]

I am exactly the same as you.
In fact, I was almost "happy" to have a reason to tinker a movement

servicing a movement does not seem as fun as shaping a case, or aging work. I might get into lume work.

I read that the fragile keyless is mostly a low cost clone thing and that Seagulls/Gen Eta have less of that problem

You're right !!!
Thre's 2 quality levels of 2824-2 clones, one beating at 28.800 bph and one beating at 21.600 bph (lowest quality) but on all those clones the keyless works parts are meh.
I use 21.600 bph clones for vintage builds but I service it and replace keyless parts with better ones.

 

[Karbon74]

You're right !!!
Thre's 2 quality levels of 2824-2 clones, one beating at 28.800 bph and one beating at 21.600 bph (lowest quality) but on all those clones the keyless works parts are meh.
I use 21.600 bph clones for vintage builds but I service it and replace keyless parts with better ones.

can you share the source? I found some keyless parts packs on Ali but they are so cheap that I don't think they will be much better than stock

 

[Karbon74]

the seagull I bought. Just from the pic you can see the higher quality finish

 

[manodeoro]

can you share the source? I found some keyless parts packs on Ali but they are so cheap that I don't think they will be much better than stock

I'll do this weekend ... the seller is German so shipping to France is fast and relatively cheap

 

[Karbon74]

good news. I managed to disassemble and reassemble a keyless works
bad news, the thing was dry as a frigid c**t plus low quality parts.

Now the stem gets in and clicks, but I can't move the positions

I will keep that movement for practice. Maybe buy keyless parts sometime to play. I need to buy some oil and oilers.

 

[369mafia]

good news. I managed to disassemble and reassemble a keyless works
bad news, the thing was dry as a frigid c**t plus low quality parts.

Now the stem gets in and clicks, but I can't move the positions

I will keep that movement for practice. Maybe buy keyless parts sometime to play. I need to buy some oil and oilers.

it sounds like they slipped out of place again or were not in the correct position when you assembled it. redo it should work

 

[Karbon74]

it sounds like they slipped out of place again or were not in the correct position when you assembled it. redo it should work

@369mafia
I did it three times
good practice. I know the parts by heart now!

The parts don't move very well. I will try again after I clean them and buy some lubricants. Won't give up

 

[Karbon74]

Ok guys
I finally got over my slump and put that Seagull movement in. So a few learnings

1. seagull makes an awesome movement. that thing feels "solid" and has nice finish. You can see to the naked eye that the tolerances are better. The lever to free the stem has a nice click and feedback to it and you feel much safer

2. You cannot use the stem that comes with it...so I learned to trim a stem wasted 2 stems (short) until I understood how to measure right.

3. The Raffles tube threads in perfectly...But the crown is weird. It's bigger. See pic. I ended up using the JK stock crown which is 100% compatible... I feel it's prettier



4. I was shocked because the Raffles Rivet bracelet just would not fit in the JKF case. Seems that the springbar did not align with the holes anyone know about this? or I am missing something?

5. 2mm springbars do not fit in the last hollow link of the Raffles bracelet. I guess you need to deform it to fit the springbar AND make it align

6. winding of an eta clone 2836 is still rougher than a 3230(3130?) as in my Explorer1, but the seagull is better than the stock a2836

7. I now have a spare bracelet...so I am very probably going to make a Raffles build but I am going for a NH38. Those 28xx clones are just painful.

 

[369mafia]

You may need to modify the end links you may need to file down the points or anywhere else the end links make contact with the case prior to the spring bar lining up with the lug holes.

you probably ordered the bracelet for the standard bars and not for the thick bars. you will need to enlarge t the spring bar mounts on the end link . and depending on the center link you may need to drill that out to fit the larger bars as well.

 

[Karbon74]

You may need to modify the end links you may need to file down the points or anywhere else the end links make contact with the case prior to the spring bar lining up with the lug holes.

thanks. I think I will keep it as is and buy a raffles case. I was wanting to experiment with them for some time now

you probably ordered the bracelet for the standard bars and not for the thick bars.

indeed I rechecked the listing and it shows 1.78mm ...bummer
I could not find a rivet bracelet for 2mm though. Have you bought one ever?

 

[WatchN3RD]

Not sure, but I feel the 2mm vs 1.8mm is overplayed. If you're not planning on water-skiing, or wrestling a large friend that's been drinking, 1.8mm is pretty solid.

Quality 1.8mm are rather sturdy in my experience -- assuming they fit properly in the case itself.

Bigger is always better I guess, but 1.8 can be rather stout.

 

[Karbon74]

Not sure, but I feel the 2mm vs 1.8mm is overplayed. If you're not planning on water-skiing, or wrestling a large friend that's been drinking, 1.8mm is pretty solid.

Quality 1.8mm are rather sturdy in my experience -- assuming they fit properly in the case itself.

Bigger is always better I guess, but 1.8 can be rather stout.

yeah. the point is not really sturdiness though. It's rather to mimic the original setup. But the 1.8mm are indeed fine

 

[matzemedia]

I currently have the same problem with the thick springbar. You have to go with the 2.0mm as @369mafia explained. If you use 1.8mm the small steam that fit into the case is to small (remember you have thrilled you horn up to 1.2mm). The diameter of the steam of the 1.8 and 2.0 springbar are in different sizes. A 1.8 mm springar will wiggle in your case.

 

[manodeoro]

thanks. I think I will keep it as is and buy a raffles case. I was wanting to experiment with them for some time now



indeed I rechecked the listing and it shows 1.78mm ...bummer
I could not find a rivet bracelet for 2mm though. Have you bought one ever?

For 2mm fat springbars :
1 - redrill the lugs to 1.3mm
2 - enlarge the last link on the bracelet with a 2mm round diamond file ... about 2 minutes
3 - enlarge the hollow endlinks tubes with a 2mm diamond file ... a bit long as you'll have to proceed slowly ... you can also just cut the tubes with a Dremel and open it until the 2mm springbars fit in
4 - enjoy

EDIT : I've used both 1.8mm and 2mm springbars and 2mm are much better !!!
1.8mm have double shoulder so the part that goes in the lug hole is much too thin ...

 

[Winni1611]

I agree, you need Single sholder springbars to fit the 1,3 mm lughole snd these are 2mm