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[BUILD LOG] Rolex 6610 big white lollipop - 1957

chrome72

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There is also something called the xtool f1 which is a galvo laser and uses the IR laser i mentioned above that i think can do slightly better that the set up i mentioned above. One could also find users on etsy or any of the various xtool user groups on facebook/reddit and just send them a pre oxidized dial too and have someone laser it for probably $30. Use my technique for laquering with nitro to get smooth/glossy/mirror finish on your lasered dial. So for $30 in oxidizing stuff, and $20 in nitrocellulose you are $50 in to make a ton of dials. After that its like $2 for a dial blank of aliexpress and probably $30 for someone to laser away the patina. You could have a lacquered gilt dial for $35 a dial now. You would jus thave to lume it.

Power to the people!
 
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Erect

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There are desktop hobbiest diode lasers out there (brands are: Xtool, atomstack, Sculpfun). They specialize in diode lasers which are great at engraving wood, plastic, cardboard etc, but suck at actually engraving metal. They can mark metal which is really annealing the metal. The spot size of lasers are these are sub 1mm (some are .05mm x .08mm which is small but its rectangular). Fiber lasers can cut metal. But fiber lasers are $1.2K+ however they can have almost .01mm x.01mm spot size which is crazy small.

About 1.5 years ago the diode laser market released an infrared laser. This kind of laser has the ability to remove rust from metal. Rust is really oxidation. The infrared lasers also have a spot size of .03mm x .03mm which is super tiny and the size would be great for what we are doing. These machines also have movement accuracy as low as .01mm! So I have a strong suspicion that one of these hobbiest lasers + the infrared laser module could remove the oxidation from the dials (aka the way I have been making my gilt dials for now). It won't be able to actually engrave a metal plated dial (aka it wont be able to engrave black zinc coated brass to reveal the brass).

I know cost is relative but you can buy a used diode laser engrave for $150ish (refurbished on amazon, ebay, or used on facebook market place etc) and buy an infrared laser module for $500ish. So for $650 you could potentially be blasting out tropical dials or even black oxidized dials.

After i wrote all that I remembered someone already did that and and i feel dumb as this was already mentioned awhile back on a thread i started. The member just needed to dial in his settings. I don't know if he ever followed up on it. You can see in the shine in that specific post and the post above it. I feel dumb for not searching within my own threads for guidance ha.

So you could feasible do this at home for $650ish. You could also use it to laser designs on the caseback too.
Let’s not forget the advertised 0.01mm accuracy in practice usually does not result in such accuracy. In my example, it yields 0.04x0.05mm. Take this into consideration, especially when purchasing a secondhand device.
 

chrome72

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Let’s not forget the advertised 0.01mm accuracy in practice usually does not result in such accuracy. In my example, it yields 0.04x0.05mm. Take this into consideration, especially when purchasing a secondhand device.
That is fair. It looks like .1mm is probably the smallest bit you would get on a dial so there is some wiggle room.
 
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369mafia

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There is also something called the xtool f1 which is a galvo laser and uses the IR laser i mentioned above that i think can do slightly better that the set up i mentioned above. One could also find users on etsy or any of the various xtool user groups on facebook/reddit and just send them a pre oxidized dial too and have someone laser it for probably $30. Use my technique for laquering with nitro to get smooth/glossy/mirror finish on your lasered dial. So for $30 in oxidizing stuff, and $20 in nitrocellulose you are $50 in to make a ton of dials. After that its like $2 for a dial blank of aliexpress and probably $30 for someone to laser away the patina. You could have a lacquered gilt dial for $35 a dial now. You would jus thave to lume it.

Power to the people!
awesome..Thanks for the info. The opportunities are endless really. I know its not easy but it sounds alot easier to do than the decals or film free applications. and alot more durable . Once you have it dialed in it seems like we could really produce some magic!!
 

Erect

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Update:​

I have finished exams (for now) and recovered from gut infection, so here is a long overdue update:

Case likely by @1016 lover​


I'm facing some challenges with this case project. I'm going to use a case sourced by @1016lover, which features more aggressive lug curving, closely resembling the 6610 case shape (in our opinion).

Here's a comparison between the bigger hole case and the Raffles case:




The main issue with this case is that the Athaya Vintage crown tube doesn't fit—the hole is slightly too large. Therefore, the hole needs to be closed, drilled, and tapped to the appropriate size. After discussing with @1016lover, and given my experience with metalwork and welding, we considered three solutions: 1) Poly Metal bonding the hole shut, 2) Using a Chalmo welding torch with a copper/aluminum and flux blended baguette, or 3) TIG welding. I'm hesitant to use torch weld and TIG due to the heat.

Here's what I've experimented with on a stainless steel dummy block:

1) Poly Metal Bonding:



As you can see, it worked, but the thread strength isn't optimal.


2) Chalmo torch weld with Copper + Aluminium + Flux baguette:



As you can see the first 2-3 holes were a bit messy, but at the end I got it down to perfection.


This method yielded stronger threads, although it was challenging due to the heat. The key will be to fill the hole precisely without causing heat damage to the case.

I am now considering purchasing a precision torch device for jewelry welding to pursue this method further.

@1016 lover provided me with a test case to practice the hole-filling technique. I tested the 55 end links on this case, and they fit wonderfully:


Movement​


I decided to use a genuine Swiss ETA 2451 movement, which has 18,000 bph, matching the specifications of the genuine 6610.
This movement is sourced from a vintage 1960s Hebli watch.



Here are the timegrapher specifications as it currently stands:



I will most likely have it serviced before using it in the 6610 build.
The movement has a mounting diameter (Dm) of 25.6mm, the same as the ETA-2824, and a stem height (T) of 1.85mm, which is only 0.05mm taller and should not be an issue.

The dial feet positions are different for this movement, but this should not pose an issue either, as the dial is custom-made and the feet will be placed as necessary.

I already know which big lollipop seconds hand I'll be using, and it should fit this movement without any issues.
The hand can be pinched to fit tightly. The ETA-2451 uses 1.50mm and 0.90mm hour and minute hands, identical to the ETA-2824.

After disassembling the movement, I discovered that the gears showed signs of rust - which is not surprising considering the fact that the movement is over 60 years old. While the gears fit and align surprisingly well, the rust poses a long-term problem as it generates dust within the movement and spreads like a disease. Consequently, I sourced a superior gear set for the ETA 2451 movement.
Additionally, I sourced replacement crown stem/winding stem and the spring. I'll provide further updates once everything is assembled and timegraphed.
 
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matzemedia

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Once I've build a 1016 I figured out that the case height is about 4.4mm. I'am not sure if the 6610 is the same or any other hight. But what I know is that the Raffle case is too height. So when you close the crown hole and redrill it, you also should check the height of the case. To be perfect you have to remove some metal from the top and bottom with a lathe. See: 1016 case height

I also did once some test to close the crown hole. The case is symetrical. So my idea was to close one side and thrill a new hole at the opposite site of the case. In theory that should work. So I screw a small screw at the hole instead of the crown and fixed it with Two-component adhesive. Then I removed remaining parts of the screw. That doesn't work 100 % good. You can see the different material and the gear of the screw. May be it work better by thrilling the case hole and pressfit a blank metal pin (with the same steal).

I'am looking forward to your solution.

Here a picture how it look:
 
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Erect

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Once I've build a 1016 I figured out that the case height is about 4.4mm. I'am not sure if the 6610 is the same or any other hight. But what I know is that the Raffle case is too height. So when you close the crown hole and redrill it, you also should check the height of the case. To be perfect you have to remove some metal from the top and bottom with a lathe. See: 1016 case height

I also did once some test to close the crown hole. The case is symetrical. So my idea was to close one side and thrill a new hole at the opposite site of the case. In theory that should work. So I screw a small screw at the hole instead of the crown and fixed it with Two-component adhesive. Then I removed remaining parts of the screw. That doesn't work 100 % good. You can see the different material and the gear of the screw. May be it work better by thrilling the case hole and pressfit a blank metal pin (with the same steal).

I'am looking forward to your solution.

Here a picture how it look:
With regards to case height, I believe @1016 lover did the calculations. But I will measure tomorrow and see. Good call, thank you!

Why did you redrill at opposite side and not there where you plugged the hole?

I’m planning to fill the hole completely, and @1016 lover will redrill and tap. My redrill and tap in the test block was only to test the m3 tapping result. If it works and how the thread feels. My option 2) felt more strong than 1).
 

matzemedia

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Why did you redrill at opposite side and not there where you plugged the hole?
Well my idea was that the metal at the closes hole is week and to drill a hole at a place where the metal structure is not clean can weaken the new screw thread. In real live you will hardly find a thread that has been drilled in a weld seam. But maybe I'm just being too cautious. At the end you do the test and that is the best you can do.
 
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Erect

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Well my idea was that the metal at the closes hole is week and to drill a hole at a place where the metal structure is not clean can weaken the new screw thread. In real live you will hardly find a thread that has been drilled in a weld seam. But maybe I'm just being too cautious. At the end you do the test and that is the best you can do.
Yes a bit too cautious I think. It does not take a lot of wear, and you should not have to unscrew the crown tube out of the case frequently, right? I think your result looked good. If redrilled the crow will cover the little circle where the plug connects to the case, right? So it would be invisible too. Not sure though, as yours is plugged and not welded right?
 
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Erect

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screwed and glued.
Hmm I cant speak of how good that may be. If drilled out maybe the glue will not hold the tiny remaining amount of material well. Im not sure. We would have to compare 😁
 

WatchN3RD

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Have I missed any updates recently?
I previously mentioned that I purchased some NOS rolled jubilee band replacements (right before or maybe at the exact time you ordered them) and finally decided to try them the other day. I really appreciate the craftsmanship. The ones I have are slightly less (refined?) than genuine but the craftsmanship is still there. I'd say they had one or two less quality control checks in place, but I'm enjoying the construction.
1) I get why people don't like the folded/rolled jubilee. They are flimsy, and they are form fitting like a dead snake on your arm. But I'd prefer to describe the fitment more like a knights chain mail.
2) I am almost always against polishing, and I don't appreciate the bling of modern Rolex. But the rolled jubilee has always looked great polished in my eyes, so I polished that bitch.

Just wanted to share my results. It's a struggle between emphasizing the construction vs. my dislike of overly shiny jewelry.
 

Erect

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Have I missed any updates recently?
I previously mentioned that I purchased some NOS rolled jubilee band replacements (right before or maybe at the exact time you ordered them) and finally decided to try them the other day. I really appreciate the craftsmanship. The ones I have are slightly less (refined?) than genuine but the craftsmanship is still there. I'd say they had one or two less quality control checks in place, but I'm enjoying the construction.
1) I get why people don't like the folded/rolled jubilee. They are flimsy, and they are form fitting like a dead snake on your arm. But I'd prefer to describe the fitment more like a knights chain mail.
2) I am almost always against polishing, and I don't appreciate the bling of modern Rolex. But the rolled jubilee has always looked great polished in my eyes, so I polished that bitch.

Just wanted to share my results. It's a struggle between emphasizing the construction vs. my dislike of overly shiny jewelry.
No, not since my case welding update.

I had ordered a jewellery welder, which was delayed in transit. And before arrival I had departed for a week to Greece.
I will be back the 16th and probably put the welder to use the 17th.

Lovely bracelet. I would like it to be dinged up - as a genuine one after loads of wear. Dinged up + polish is doable.
Oh, and lovely watch too!
 

369mafia

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This thread needs more 6610
(placeholders until yours is completed )


hjPBbc.jpeg

hjPdsF.jpeg
 

Erect

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This thread needs more 6610
(placeholders until yours is completed )


hjPBbc.jpeg

hjPdsF.jpeg
Sexy! My Chinese friend is on business trip still, so no news on the dial production. We have edited the .svg and first etch (two weeks ago) seemed better, but still needs some improvements.
 

Erect

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Alright people, it's been a while. Here's some updates with regards to the Case/Crown tube and Movement.
The Dial work remains unchanged, my Chinese contact is still out on business but is expected to return home next week.

Case Sourced by @1016lover


I'm encountering some challenges with this case project, which features a case sourced by @1016lover. The case has more aggressive lug curving, closely resembling the 6610 shape, at least in my opinion.

Here's a comparison between the larger hole case and the Raffles case:




The primary issue with this case is that the Athaya Vintage crown tube doesn’t fit properly—the hole is slightly too large. To fix this, the hole needs to be closed, drilled, and tapped to the appropriate size. After discussing potential solutions with @1016lover and considering my experience with metalwork and welding, we came up with three possible approaches:

1. Using Poly Metal bonding to close the hole.
2. Welding with a Chalmo torch using a copper/aluminum and flux blended baguette.
3. TIG welding.

I’m cautious about using torch and TIG welding due to the heat involved, so I tested the options on a stainless steel dummy block.

1) Poly Metal Bonding:



This method worked, but the thread strength wasn't optimal.

2) Chalmo Torch Weld with Copper + Aluminum + Flux Baguette:




The initial 2-3 holes were messy, but I eventually got the technique down perfectly.


This approach produced stronger threads but was challenging due to the heat. The key is to fill the hole precisely without damaging the case. I'm considering investing in a precision torch device for jewelry welding to improve this method.

@1016lover provided a test case to practice the hole-filling technique. I tested the 55 end links on this case, and they fit perfectly:




I also tested TIG welding on the dummy block, which went well. However, when I applied it to the stainless steel test case, I noticed the case material differed slightly from the block, and it didn’t withstand the heat as well.



This led me to explore alternative methods, such as using a crown tube with unique specifications (4.35 x 3.35 x 3.60mm).


This approach allows @1016lover to tap the larger thread size in the case and fit the crown tube neatly, eliminating the need for welding or redrilling. The Athaya Vintage Brevet crown fits perfectly on the crown tube end, so that’s a positive!

Stock Athaya crown tube on the right.


Movement​


I decided to use a genuine Swiss ETA 2451 movement, which has 18,000 bph, matching the specifications of the genuine 6610. This movement is sourced from a vintage 1960s Hebli watch.



Here are the timegrapher specifications as it currently stands:



I'm going to have it serviced before using it in the 6610 build. The movement has a mounting diameter (Dm) of 25.6mm, the same as the ETA-2824, and a stem height (T) of 1.85mm, which is only 0.05mm taller and should not be an issue.

The dial feet positions are different for this movement, but this should not pose an issue either, as the dial is custom-made and the feet will be placed as necessary.

I already know which big lollipop seconds hand I'll be using, and it should fit this movement without any issues. The hand can be pinched to fit tightly. The ETA-2451 uses 1.50mm and 0.90mm hour and minute hands, identical to the ETA-2824.

After disassembling the movement, I discovered that the gears showed signs of rust—which is not surprising considering the fact that the movement is over 60 years old. While the gears fit and align surprisingly well, the rust poses a long-term problem as it generates dust within the movement and spreads like a disease. Consequently, I sourced a superior gear set for the ETA 2451 movement.




Additionally, I sourced a replacement crown stem, winding stem, and spring. I'll provide further updates once everything is assembled and timegraphed. What wasn't included in the donor gear set was the escape wheel, so I had to search for a non-rusted ETA 2451 escape wheel, which I finally managed to pick up.



This is possibly going to be one of the nicest Swiss ETA 2451 movements out there, considering the fact that everything with the slightest sign of rust or wear and tear is swapped out for better parts. Hopefully, it'll tick nicely.
 

Erect

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Part 3:


Hands​


I've chosen the Helen 6538 13mm Gold Bond "Benz" watch hands with the smaller lume plot. The hand hole sizes are 90/150/25.

- Hour Hand Length: 8.00 mm (from center hole to tip)
- Minute Hand Length: 13.00 mm
- Second Hand Length: 13.00 mm




Note: I won't be using the seconds hand from Helen. Instead, I'm opting for a custom-made seconds hand with a big lollipop design.






Crown​


I'm using the Athaya Vintage Brevet Crown:





Movement​


I decided to use a genuine Swiss ETA 2451 movement, which operates at 18,000 bph—matching the specifications of the original Rolex 6610. This movement was sourced from a vintage 1960s Hebli watch.



Timegrapher Specifications​


Here are the current readings:



I plan to have the movement serviced before incorporating it into the build. The movement has a mounting diameter (Dm) of 25.6 mm, identical to the ETA 2824, and a stem height (T) of 1.85 mm, which is only 0.05 mm taller—an insignificant difference.

Dial Feet and Hands Compatibility​


The dial feet positions differ for this movement, but since the dial is custom-made, the feet can be placed accordingly. I'm confident that the big lollipop seconds hand I selected will fit without issues. The hand can be adjusted for a tight fit. The ETA 2451 uses 1.50 mm and 0.90 mm hour and minute hands, identical to the ETA 2824.

Movement Restoration​


Upon disassembling the movement, I discovered signs of rust on the gears—not surprising for a 60-year-old mechanism. Rust poses a long-term issue as it generates dust within the movement. Therefore, I sourced a superior gear set for the ETA 2451:




I also acquired a replacement crown stem, winding stem, and spring. Updates will follow once everything is assembled and tested. The donor gear set lacked an escape wheel, so I searched and found a non-rusted ETA 2451 escape wheel:



This movement is shaping up to be one of the finest Swiss ETA 2451 examples, with all worn or rusted parts replaced. I anticipate it will perform excellently.

Fully Serviced Movement:






Bracelet​


The bracelet will be assembled from various components.

6251H Jubilee Bracelet​


An Italian NOS (New Old Stock):






55 End Links​




Clasp & Buckle​


The clasp is custom-made from a mold. I'm considering either purchasing a Raffles folding mechanism and attaching the outer big crown buckle to it or retaining it as is. The folding mechanism has ample space, though the number engraving isn't 6251H, and genuine 6251H clasps are hard to find.








Kwy03I.png

Engraving by @newest dude on the forum & Potentially by @manodeoro for Inside Caseback​


The watch case arrived in the USA without customs issues and has now been engraved by the great pantograph engraver @newest dude on the forum. The result looks great in my opinion.


Back to Belgium she goes, where our local governmental post service will undoubtedly hit me with heavy import fee's...





KwyxwX.png

Assembly & Aging by @kilowattore


Content to be added.



KwyJci.png

Parts and Costs Excel Sheet​


Content to be added.



Kwycib.png


Thank You for Following Along​


Thank you for taking the time to read about my project. I appreciate your interest and support. Updates will follow as the project progresses.


 
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Erect

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Some Updates on What You Guys Are Probably Most Excited About

I will add it into the part 2 write-up later, too lazy right now.

Here it goes—the dial progress:



Introduction

The most resource-intensive part of this entire build. The part that takes the most time, the most money and effort... requires multiple people across continents to work on it.

As most of you saw in part 2, the dial result with the vector made by the professional illustrator, as per my R&D, was decent but nowhere near there yet.



Challenges with the Laser Machine

Found out our laser machine is not the 0.01mm accuracy it is advertised to have. It ranged more like 0.01–0.04mm dot size. I forgive the machine, despite it costing €1,500, it is 5 years old or so; therefore, I can't be too hard on the old girl.

So... after many, many adjustments, the font was still fat.







We did get a better result after some more adjustments:



But of course, still too fat. So, to avoid hiring the illustrator again (he's expensive at $33/hour—you can imagine how many hours have gone into this), we tweaked the vector some more in the laser software:







Progress and Results

The result:





Not looking too bad, still too fat. And as marked in red, the conversion from vector to laser has filling issues. As illustrated below, there are two ways our old girl can engrave. More modern (and expensive) lasers can also engrave rasterized. Ours can't.





It's important to realize that there are a LOT of factors that change the outcome. The laser speed, the laser pattern, the laser density, but also the base plate used (more on that later). If you make the laser engrave too densely, you risk overflowing when the burning/melting happens. The result is not a crisp engraving but rather a "blended out" engraving.


Back to the Drawing Board

So since we could not achieve the desired thinness, we had to go back to the drawing table and I re-hired our illustrators (yes, multiple—I hired two now). After a lot of instructions back and forth, testing... as you can't know what it looks like unless you actually engrave it... we started tweaking the design.

Previously, the vector was an almost perfect copy of an authentic dial—8 authentic 6610 dials to be exact. The vector looks amazing on the computer, pretty much 1:1. But translating that onto the actual dial is an issue.

So we started thinning things. At first, I wanted only the crown, "OYSTER...", and "OFF..." text to get thinned, simulating a maximum laser point of 0.5mm resulting in an outline of 0.25mm. We took off 0.2mm everywhere. There's no way our laser point would be 0.5mm lol.









But obviously that wasn't enough... still too fat. (Authentic dial on the right.) Don't mind the spacing between the letters—that is easily adjusted, but before that, I want to get the thickness right:





Further Thinning

So I decided to have the illustrator make the entire dial vector thinner. The chapter ring with minute indicators, the 5-minute indicators—all thinner. And the chapter ring the thinnest possible, as we could still widen it to desired spec in the laser software. Also, the numbers made more thin.

hTr5R3.png


hTra9Y.png


hTrWKs.png


hTreBn.png


hTrisD.png




Latest Results and Observations

The result:



This is the point where we noticed the bleeding issue. The bottom on the "new" dial looks amazing! (Besides spacing.) And is probably the limit of how thin we can get the text to be. Compare the size to the chapter ring and minute indicator lines—that's the thinnest we can probably get, but also looks very, very close to the real deal in my opinion. The "OFFICIALLY..." text looks great too, just need to sort spacing.

The numbers and 5-minute indicators are thinned out compared to the previous version. You can tell the 6 looks different and the 10-minute indicators are further separated from the chapter ring, as they're thinner.

But even though we thinned out the "ROLEX," "EXPLORER" text, and crown, it looks more fat than the version before these alterations! Turns out the way you apply the black coating influences the engraving outcome a lot. Too thick of a layer and you get the bleeding effect, resulting in non-crisp and more fuzzy detailing, as seen in the "ROLEX" and "EXPLORER" text as well as the crown.

To make things a little more easy, I hired the illustrator again to thin out "ROLEX," "EXPLORER," crown... basically everything on the dial. We're now making some base plates attempting to evenly apply the black coating, and see which one gives the best result.

I don't have a dial to show yet, with the latest adjustments. But the vector now looks like this:



As you can tell, it's much thinner than what an actual dial looks like. But that's to compensate for laser dot thickness... It does require further adjusting in the laser software, but this needs to happen adjustment per adjustment, with a test dial engraved between adjustments. As you don't know what the outcome will look like unless you've engraved it. You can imagine how many brass dials have been used in this project and the amount of coating, varnish....



Conclusion

We're getting there! At this point I'm so invested, both financially and in time, with over 7 months of research and development (I'm not kidding), I do want to get it the closest to perfect that we can obtain.

With the current V4 vector, which is thinned everywhere, we should be able to obtain a good result.

Keep you posted!
 
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Erect

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Like how you show how much work goes in to perfecting something.
Absolutely! That's exactly the idea. And it's only a tiny tip of the giant iceberg.
You know how "authentic" vintage watches gain so much value with their documentation and service receipts? Well, this post acts as the "documentation" for my watch. Right now, it may not even be a watch yet, but it holds immense value for me due to all the effort that has gone into it. Not just by me, but also by amazing people like @1016 lover, @newest dude on the forum, my friends in China, my contacts in Russia, and my 76-year-old local watchsmith.

The dedication and hard work invested in this project are beyond measure. I’m not sure if anyone else has taken it as far as I have. Perhaps Yodog and Kilo with their custom dials made in Vietnam and Mano, but I like to believe this goes even further, starting from scratch and creating something unique. There's a distinction between builds that use high-quality, expensive (Vietnamese) components and those like this one, which feature parts that aren't found on store shelves... It’s been a journey of developing blueprints and designs, and watching it all come to life, albeit very slowly.

Quite frankly, when I began this journey, I never aspired to take it this far...I may well have taken it too far. But I guess that's part of the disease.

If there are others watching this who do go the extra lengths, please make posts like this documenting your work. I'd be happy to read and learn from it.



EDIT: Also, your feedback is welcomed!
- Do you agree that the chapter ring and the numbers, as well as minute indicators and "Swiss" look the appropriate size in the "NEW" dial?
- Whats your opinion on the OFFICIAL.... text size? Do you agree that it looks very close to genuine, except the spacing between letters? (so merely the size, is what im gauging at currently).

Here's a full pic of the "NEW" dial. Be careful with googling authentic 6610 dials though. Some fakes are shown, which are easily spotted, and the few originals out there are obviously aged, resulting in the lumen area of the numbers and indices possibly looking smaller.

 
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