ARF silently released new 16610LN's and 16610LV's

[AggressiveTiger]

but the two are very different. RAF has better case and the dial printing is much better (crisping, definition etc). I'm still deciding which one to buy while I wait a TC to pop up and I think I'll get one or two RAF and pick the best parts as the production batches are very inconsistent. But they're better to ARF that instead has a better movement

Steve has the RAF listed as using the SH3135 - same as the ARF V2

 

[mandipan]

This is why I just use the Alibaba cases and build what I want

if you already bought many, did you noticed variations from one to another?

 

[bowtiefanatc]

I’ve had 3 of them and haven’t noticed any major variations. I guess the biggest thing I noticed is that the recent 2 had a much more secure bezel. I even sanded one of the bezels down to be closer to a 14060 height and it clicked on nicely.

I’ll definitely be getting more and building up the 5 digits I want. Gonna build a 5 digit Smurf here soon.

 

[Xcalm]

My gen insert needed some sanding to fit my ARF.

thanks for the info. This is certainly what I want to avoid...

 

[bowtiefanatc]

thanks for the info. This is certainly what I want to avoid...

It’s not that big of a deal. It’s very very minor sanding around the circumference.

 

[bowtiefanatc]

 

[Hinclimincli]

After a year rep-free I couldn’t resist and I ended up getting one haha. I must say I’m really impressed:



And here’s after a quick splash in the sea, confirming water resistance:



My only concern, as some have mentioned, is the SEL fitting. Mine sit really flush with the lugs and I am really a sucker for good SEL fitting (owning a Ginault has spoiled me indeed).

Has anyone found another bracelet that works better in that front? I see @KJ2020 you have bought a brand new Ginault bracelet and apparently fits perfectly, how are the SELs looking? Anyone else has used a 6-digit bracelet on this, and if yes, which factory?

Thank you fellas!

 

[KJ2020]

After a year rep-free I couldn’t resist and I ended up getting one haha. I must say I’m really impressed:



And here’s after a quick splash in the sea, confirming water resistance:



My only concern, as some have mentioned, is the SEL fitting. Mine sit really flush with the lugs and I am really a sucker for good SEL fitting (owning a Ginault has spoiled me indeed).

Has anyone found another bracelet that works better in that front? I see @KJ2020 you have bought a brand new Ginault bracelet and apparently fits perfectly, how are the SELs looking? Anyone else has used a 6-digit bracelet on this, and if yes, which factory?

Thank you fellas!

I put the Ginault bracelet on my TC LN bro and the SEL fit is great IMO. My lugs had to be rebrushed though to eliminate some scratches, so there was some lowering of the lug surfaces. A Ginault bracelet on some rep cases can look a little too recessed, especially on a 6 digit case.

Another rep bracelet that I like a lot is the old Yuki 93150 with the hollow end links. These links can be easily bent to some degree to give you the recess you want. IDK if these are still available.

As far as BP bracelets go, I've had some that were fine. Just luck of the draw with the batch I guess.

I also put a BP 6 digit TT on a modded 5 digit. Recess isn't stellar but I don't mind as the bracelet is really nice. The 5 digit TT color turned on me after a few years. There is protective film on the links that didn't turn.

 

[Hinclimincli]

I put the Ginault bracelet on my TC LN bro and the SEL fit is great IMO. My lugs had to be rebrushed though to eliminate some scratches, so there was some lowering of the lug surfaces. A Ginault bracelet on some rep cases can look a little too recessed, especially on a 6 digit case.

Another rep bracelet that I like a lot is the old Yuki 91350 with the hollow end links. These links can be easily bent to some degree to give you the recess you want. IDK if these are still available.

As far as BP bracelets go, I've had some that were fine. Just luck of the draw with the batch I guess.

I also put a BP 6 digit TT on a modded 5 digit. Recess isn't stellar but I don't mind as the bracelet is really nice. The 5 digit TT color turned on me after a few years. There is protective film on the links that didn't turn.

Well that’s really good! Especially the 93150 reference as I have always been interested in that look too. Yuki doesn’t have them in the website anymore but I can ask and see if there’s stock. The other option would be to buy a JK comex or similar and just use it, they seem to be a good substitute if you don’t want to overspend by going for these new Italian bracelets.

May I ask, which clasp do you use on the Ginault bracelet? I saw this one but I’m not sure if VSF is the gold standard now for Submariner clasps.

 

[KJ2020]

Well that’s really good! Especially the 93150 reference as I have always been interested in that look too. Yuki doesn’t have them in the website anymore but I can ask and see if there’s stock. The other option would be to buy a JK comex or similar and just use it, they seem to be a good substitute if you don’t want to overspend by going for these new Italian bracelets.

May I ask, which clasp do you use on the Ginault bracelet? I saw this one but I’m not sure if VSF is the gold standard now for Submariner clasps.

I put the TC clasp on the Ginault bracelet. I was going to use a Glidelock like I have on my gen 16710 since I love them (who doesn't) but the Ginault is unbranded. I just put on the TC clasp as a trial and it was OK so it stayed. TC bracelets and clasps are nothing special IMO, maybe sourced from the same supplier as BP. They have the same PJ4 codes.

The clasp fit flawlessly to the Ginault bracelet. Ofc the Ginault bracelet has polished link sides so sticklers need not apply, haha. Those things tend to not bother me at all, the case sides and clasp sides are polished after all. It looks fine. The Ginault bracelet is super nice - smooth and better than any gen 5 digit I've had. As good as a gen 6 digit even.

 

[Hinclimincli]

I put the TC clasp on the Ginault bracelet. I was going to use a Glidelock like I have on my gen 16710 since I love them (who doesn't) but the Ginault is unbranded. I just put on the TC clasp as a trial and it was OK so it stayed. TC bracelets and clasps are nothing special IMO, maybe sourced from the same supplier as BP. They have the same PJ4 codes.

The clasp fit flawlessly to the Ginault bracelet. Ofc the Ginault bracelet has polished link sides so sticklers need not apply, haha. Those things tend to not bother me at all, the case sides and clasp sides are polished after all. It looks fine. The Ginault bracelet is super nice - smooth and better than any gen 5 digit I've had. As good as a gen 6 digit even.

Damn, you’re right, the Ginault bracelet fits perfectly! Will buy another one soon (now I’m using the one from my OR1) and probably a rep Rolex glidelock to pair it with. Thanks!

 

[KJ2020]

Damn, you’re right, the Ginault bracelet fits perfectly! Will buy another one soon (now I’m using the one from my OR1) and probably a rep Rolex glidelock to pair it with. Thanks!

Yeah that's awesome. WTG for sure.

 

[Xcalm]

I have gen LN so I can compare directly and I got the rep LN to wear when travelling as it I am slowly getting nervous to wear gens away from home these days.

I will have to remove the crown/tube and drill the case to countersink the tube to allow the crown to sit flush to the case. It's funny how they can't seem to get this right and there is no point to reject QC for this as they are all the same.

Hi - interesting finding there on the Crown not sitting flush on many Reps.
I had a chat with a Trusted Dealer recently who seemed to confirm that some are flush and some are not.

Do you habe any recent insights as to which Factory gets it right - or at least which TD is willing to support in the process finding a good item?

(I am looking for an LN)

 

[mt666tm]

Hi - interesting finding there on the Crown not sitting flush on many Reps.
I had a chat with a Trusted Dealer recently who seemed to confirm that some are flush and some are not.

Do you habe any recent insights as to which Factory gets it right - or at least which TD is willing to support in the process finding a good item?

(I am looking for an LN)

It's a gamble but from what I've seen most if not all ARF subs have the tube/crown sticking out too far. It's an easy enough fix, you just have to remove the crown and movement and tube, lightly drill the case to countersink the tube, and put it all back together again (or just send it off to a modder that can do it for you). Change the bezel click spring while you're at it as the rep spring has a very stiff and rough feel compared to gen.

I would not bother to reject QC pics because of the tube fit as you'll likely never get one that sits perfectly flush, and even if you do you'll probably spot some other flaw on it as none are perfect.

I think BP may have a better flush fit on the tube but then there are other flaws and lack of gen-spec for modding inherant to that factory so you just have to pick your poison and decide what level of modding you want to do if any.

You can wear any of these reps as-is out of the box and no one will know the difference. Trust me when I say that we are the only ones with OCD high enough to care about these details.

 

[Xcalm]

Thanks - very helpful info.

I emailed with a TD about the RAF model and he pulled up various recent QC images… majority with the crown sticking out, but also some with a crown sitting perfectly flush.

Unfortunately I don‘t have the skills myself to apply the modifications you mentioned and I also don't have a watchmaker at hand.

in summary - at least for me - it is rather bothering me and it seams now I would hold back from getting my first 5-digit rep because of this.

Again, your advice is very much appreciated!!

 

[bowtiefanatc]

It can always be fixed. Just get it and enjoy.

 

[mt666tm]

You know some gen has the same problem too. I have a gen 16610 Z serial (no rehaut engraving) and my crown sits flush, and my cousin has same gen and with Z serial like mine and his crown is not perfectly flush.

Also, my gen has a ripple at the center of the dial where the hole is for the hand which I can see in the right light, while my cousins gen has a perfectly flat dial. I am wearing mine right now and playing with the light and I can see it. I have seen some reps with a ripple like this too.

Gen is not perfect too. No watch is perfect. As said above "just get it and enjoy"

 

[Geonor]

The RAF/ARF 5-digit watches are pretty much never perfect. Either you get a loose bezel, crown sticking out, mismatched lume, etc. Or if you go with the BP you get too wide chamfers. You gotta mod it or just live with the flaws basically. The factories aren't putting their best effort in since they're not as popular as the new ones.

 

[mt666tm]

I have to admit that I was wrong. My gen has the same crown gap, maybe even bigger, than ARF LN and LV. I recently got both and they are still in the plastic. I have had my gen almost 15 years now and never noticed. Here are some pics:

Gen:



ARF LN:



ARF LV:



So do not worry about crown gap. It is not a problem.

 

[mt666tm]

In addition to the post above you can see some other differences as well in the pics.

SEL fit: on ARF there is a very light recess while on Gen it is recessed more. I'm not sure how this compares to later serial # gens that have rehaut engraving.

Crown guards and crown: on ARF people say the CG's are smaller than gen, I don't really think so. I think it looks this way because the ARF crown is a bit taller with a larger bevel on the case side edge which is more common on later serial # gens and service replacement parts (my crown is still original).

Lugs: ARF has slightly thicker lugs, but the profile and chamfer is like Gen, unlike BP where the chamfer is too much. Lug size seems to vary on gen's too.

Dial: my gen dial has thin white gold surrounding edges on the circular hour markers while ARF LN has thick edge circle markers. Both are correct as most gen's actually do have thick edges on the circles. LV has thin edges on the circle markers and that's correct, and it's a maxi dial anyway so not comparable to LN.

The ARF is a great rep now that I took some time to compare them hand in hand to a gen. The only mod I will do is install gen click spring for the bezel as the rep spring has a very different and stiffer feel. If a gen crown or bezel come my way at a good price then maaaybe, but I will not make it a mission to replace these parts.