• Tired of adverts on RWI? - Subscribe by clicking HERE and PMing Trailboss for instructions and they will magically go away!

ARF 16610 LV Submariner 904L Kermit photo review

KJ2020

Time Traveler
Supporter
12/3/18
34,664
66,757
113
Oh I thought they where priced similar to a 6 digit crystal (I always change those due to the black hole effect lacking in rep)

thanks for the feedback, better find myself a gen crystal then :)

TBH if it were me I would put the 6 digit crystal on a 5 digit watch. Gen 5 digit crystals are much less satisfying since the advent of AR on Rolex crystals. I am going to put a B25-295-car-c1 on my gen 16710 at some point.
 
Last edited:

tom86

Divers only
Supporter
Certified
28/7/19
152
157
43
EU, UAE
TBH if it were me I would put the 6 digit crystal on a 5 digit watch. Gen 5 digit crystals are much less satisfying since the advent of AR on Rolex crystals. I am going to put a B25-295-car-c1 on my gen 16710 at some point.

Was reading on the "gen forum" that AD's in many cases changed the 16610 non-AR crystals to AR ones during servicing or repair. It does take away from the authenticity of the watch, but it is sure a nice upgrade. Especially with the fact that from 2010 late V-serial and random serial 16610's were sold new with AR cyclops. Makes it a truly modern classic.

Btw, what is the reference nr. for a gen crystal with LEC and AR cyclops that fits the ARF or JF 16610? Is it the B25-295-CAR-C1? I am obsessed to get one (with engraved rehaut) and planning to add the AR crystal. If anyone wants to let it go....... :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: MikeMeezy77

p0pperini

patr0n h0arder
Gold Patron
Certified
29/1/19
9,388
33,801
113
UK
Especially with the fact that from 2010 late V-serial and random serial 16610's were sold new with AR cyclops. Makes it a truly modern classic.
That's why I have an AR gen crystal on my rehaut engraved 16610 LV. :)

But that little flash of blue increases the cost of the xtal to £250.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KJ2020

KJ2020

Time Traveler
Supporter
12/3/18
34,664
66,757
113
That's why I have an AR gen crystal on my rehaut engraved 16610 LV. :)

But that little flash of blue increases the cost of the xtal to £250.

You should give it that little extra flash of green too bro, haha. Blisters are meant to be popped, p0pper.
 
  • Like
Reactions: p0pperini

McDuck888

🌞
22/2/17
3,042
1,680
113
Always buy with AR ;-)
I'm keen to buy a 16610lv engraved rehaut ARF as soon as they factory's back up and running. And a bit of a long shot but I remember there being some discussion about the click spring being absolute pants on the original AR 16610 sub. Some people could turn their bezels clockwise and anti-clockwise. Q.) Does anyone know of a good replacement clickspring if I find that's the case too please? I bought three on ebay, and they're no good. Massive thanks if anyone catches this
 

eazye

I'm Pretty Popular
9/1/13
1,334
261
83
Always buy with AR ;-)
I'm keen to buy a 16610lv engraved rehaut ARF as soon as they factory's back up and running. And a bit of a long shot but I remember there being some discussion about the click spring being absolute pants on the original AR 16610 sub. Some people could turn their bezels clockwise and anti-clockwise. Q.) Does anyone know of a good replacement clickspring if I find that's the case too please? I bought three on ebay, and they're no good. Massive thanks if anyone catches this

Cut the end and put a new bend on it. I had the stock spring and the tip broke off. I reused what was left and just bent the tip. It sounds and feels like gen now. Much smoother and solid clicks. Didn’t expect the outcome but it worked out great.
 

McPwn

Active Member
21/9/20
291
116
43
On my ARF 16610LN, i used one of the ebay ones, I think Clarks. Initially the spring was too long, and took a lot of force to turn, so I sanded off the end a bit and it was better. You can also throw some silicone grease on the bezel teeth to give it better feel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: McDuck888

Hinclimincli

I'm Pretty Popular
Certified
18/12/09
2,606
1,876
113
Always buy with AR ;-)
I'm keen to buy a 16610lv engraved rehaut ARF as soon as they factory's back up and running. And a bit of a long shot but I remember there being some discussion about the click spring being absolute pants on the original AR 16610 sub. Some people could turn their bezels clockwise and anti-clockwise. Q.) Does anyone know of a good replacement clickspring if I find that's the case too please? I bought three on ebay, and they're no good. Massive thanks if anyone catches this

After trying some stuff, I ended up just bending the click spring a bit more with a pair of jeweller’s pliers. Now it clicks as it should, minimal wobble, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: McDuck888

Shany

Active Member
24/6/19
262
77
28
Was reading on the "gen forum" that AD's in many cases changed the 16610 non-AR crystals to AR ones during servicing or repair. It does take away from the authenticity of the watch, but it is sure a nice upgrade. Especially with the fact that from 2010 late V-serial and random serial 16610's were sold new with AR cyclops. Makes it a truly modern classic.

Btw, what is the reference nr. for a gen crystal with LEC and AR cyclops that fits the ARF or JF 16610? Is it the B25-295-CAR-C1? I am obsessed to get one (with engraved rehaut) and planning to add the AR crystal. If anyone wants to let it go....... :)

last versions (2009-2010?) of the 5 digits used a AR cyclops anyway
 

Shany

Active Member
24/6/19
262
77
28
Was reading on the "gen forum" that AD's in many cases changed the 16610 non-AR crystals to AR ones during servicing or repair. It does take away from the authenticity of the watch, but it is sure a nice upgrade. Especially with the fact that from 2010 late V-serial and random serial 16610's were sold new with AR cyclops. Makes it a truly modern classic.

Btw, what is the reference nr. for a gen crystal with LEC and AR cyclops that fits the ARF or JF 16610? Is it the B25-295-CAR-C1? I am obsessed to get one (with engraved rehaut) and planning to add the AR crystal. If anyone wants to let it go....... :)

last versions (2009-2010?) of the 5 digits used a AR cyclops anyway
 

Valxmd

Banned member, the goat does not approve
Banned
11/6/21
8
1
3
At long last, we have the first ever 5 digit Sub in 904L. Thank you ARF and Puretime!

We all know the JF 16610 in 316F, both with and without rehaut engravings. This is the new 904L version making it an ARF. The new 904L Classic Sub is released with no rehaut engravings (at least for now), and this is how we prefer it. Thanks to Angus and ARF for listening. Although it’s a 904 remake of the 316 version, I think they’ve made some improvements like the lugs, cyclops, and clasp. Having just received it I’m a bit excited and my eyes may be tricking me so please chime in. We have many classic Sub veterans here. Those that know me know I’m a die hard ARF, fan so I may be a bit biased :)

OK, let’s get the first one out of the way....yes, the dreaded date font. ARF are known for beautiful build quality with tight tolerances and QC. But it’s no secret they’re also infamous for goofing their date fonts on their SH3135. I can say here that the ARF version indeed has an updated DW. That was part of the delay. How improved I’m sure you guys will comment.

When it comes to Rolex reps, we all obsess over the cyclops, black hold effect. But there is something to be said for the clarity of the whole crystal. A clear crystal will allow the beautiful dial details to shine through. The ARF crystal definitely looks updated to me. The cyclops looks clearer, almost no angled distortion, and even looks to have some halo effect around the cyclops edge.

The case machining and finishing quality remains. The lug edges look to have a tad more bevel or chamfer, making the lugs appear thinner? The rehaut is nicely finished with the right amount of sheen. The crown screws in butter smooth like a gen. The bezel sits flush with case and turns with a tight, crisp feel. The excellent insert — as we know from the JF — is pressure fit same as genuine, not glued.

As expected, the bracelet is typical ARF quality. Excellent SEL fit. Excellent smooth gen like brushed finish. Likewise the clasp feels solid when folding and snapping closed. The hidden diver’s extension snaps in/out tightly and feels gen like. The inner clasp is finished as beautifully as the outer. The outer clasp coronet and cut outs look more refined and detailed than even the JF.

For comparison I have photos next to my beloved JF Kermit 316. To keep the photos simple I went alphabetical. AR is left or top, JF right or bottom.

I can’t help but wonder if JF will now dwell into more vintage models, both 5 and 4 digit references. I wouldn’t rule anything out ;)
c9b4774f9f2590626a6ba3d91ec2a600.jpg

c597e330083686f1d2962b1f8b67d36c.jpg

e0da369719a8d2872bac0cef5b3d4c6b.jpg

148b0eedc8e5c5463f6731fd56ef259e.jpg

5a71cd5e1667afca3d633b27e3b38ad4.jpg

65de5522fdfed3df2e27a5620d492903.jpg

1c5ab83c3d39e52d4ae1b2a0467f49e9.jpg

01da3bce8d5ae0f37e4370d854d7b93f.jpg

9b1dc71817ed68837747de25aea29651.jpg

95ea591ad7976a969ed8a451c19aebb9.jpg

4dd9f548844993745db2eb57d943162b.jpg

65ed9d8272e259db0b5c3a1b92523c45.jpg

73b8731a1b6a4d2a500dc9e47f664ff7.jpg

1155a9c33407a2c89f97d0aaf5951293.jpg
fb7cf322835d01c8d72d182ac974968f.jpg

ef9a5c10903fafc8c1cc27102d71c62d.jpg

04ffaadf9f3a59b0db707aab6d01e88d.jpg

Wow the rehaut depth is sooooo baddd
 

jkrw247

I'm Pretty Popular
9/1/21
1,190
479
83
I just got 1 of these recently, the no rehaut one. And it's a pretty fucked up piece.

1. 12 marker on the dial is misaligned. Missed this during QC. Going to follow KJ2020's fixing guide.

2. The bracelet has a screw that seems to be welded into the link. My screwdriver head actually broke when I tried to unscrew it. Can't take it out still.

3. The fliplock machining is shitty AF, so tight that I can't lift it with my finger, got to use something to pry it open!

4. The alum bezel pip was even misaligned. Pip hole was stamped in the wrong place!

I'm going to be wary of ARF watches from now on.
 
Last edited:

flextime

Getting To Know The Place
22/3/20
74
75
18
I just got 1 of these recently, the no rehaut one. And it's a pretty fucked up piece.

1. 12 marker on the dial is misaligned. Missed this during QC. Going to follow KJ2020's fixing guide.

2. The bracelet has a screw that seems to be welded into the link. My screwdriver head actually broke when I tried to unscrew it. Can't take it out still.

3. The fliplock machining is shitty AF, so tight that I can't lift it with my finger, got to use something to pry it open!

4. The alum bezel pip was even misaligned. Pip hole was stamped in the wrong place!

I'm going to be wary of ARF watches from now on.

Mind sharing some photos?
 

jkrw247

I'm Pretty Popular
9/1/21
1,190
479
83

I originally ordered 2 VSF subs but they were seized by customs.

I then told the dealer that I would like to switch to ARF 16610 LV and LN for the re-ship.

Additional funds were sent and the new order was confirmed.

After a few days, I received QC pics and approved them AFTER I REVIEWED THEM ON MY PHONE (A BIG MISTAKE)

Now I have 2 watches with defects and I can't do anything about it because I did GL them without reviewing them on my computer where I could have zoomed in more clearly.

The above will cost me:
1. New 16610LN insert
2. New ARF 93250 bracelet
3. Time to re-align the 12 triangle marker
​​​​​​
Nevertheless, I am not impressed with the behaviour of this dealer.

I do have my suspicions that the watches he presented to me were from rejected stock and he did so to reduce his losses from having to re-ship watches to me.
Otherwise, how could 2 watches have such significant flaws?!

Anyway, all this is now bridge under the water. I have new parts on order to fix the flaws and I also am capable of re-aligning the 12 marker myself.

However, I will not buy from this dealer again
 
Last edited:

flextime

Getting To Know The Place
22/3/20
74
75
18
Yikes. The LN insert is bad. The good news is, a gen insert isn’t too expensive and it’s absolutely a worthy upgrade.

And since the ARF dw is terrible to begin with, you may want to get a gen dw or do a VR3135 swap. In which case, the 12 marker can be adjusted while the movement is out.

A gen insert and VR swap will make the LN a very good watch and entirely worth doing, even if your watch was perfect to begin with.

If you want, I have a great condition ARF LN insert I can sell you.

As for the bracelet. Try an oil bath. It may help.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

jkrw247

I'm Pretty Popular
9/1/21
1,190
479
83
flextime Thanks for your offer, I appreciate it. I have new inserts OTW, and I will reach out to you if they don't work for me.