ARF 16610 LV Submariner 904L Kermit photo review

[Hinclimincli]

That’s looking good. Is that the stock LN insert? Even the just released rehaut version still has the older “20” on the TD sites. Please share more photos. Thank bud.

Nope, it’s an old JF insert I had in my box of spares. I also did modify the click spring a bit to make the bezel more hard to turn (you just need to bend the spring a little bit more). And swapped the bracelet for a hollow end link bracelet.

On the BP vs ARF argument, I’ve had two BP 5 digit Subs, I had a JF and now I have an ARF. I also have a Ginault which many consider the TC v8, so I’ve had almost all options. The BP is the best bang for your buck, 100%, but in my opinion it doesn’t offer the same quality of the ARF or JF (and of course not as good as a TC). The case is brushed differently, way more coarse, the chamfers are too wide and don’t make the lugs look sharp, and getting a good SEL fitting is just like a lottery (not so worried about that one as I prefer HEL bracelets though). The mid section of the SEL protrudes way further than the genuine, and happens with most BP bracelets (happens on their Datejust too), which adds to the general weird feeling I had with my BPs, that I didn’t have with the JF and don’t have with the ARF and the Ginault.

So, if money is no concern I’d suggest the ARF. If that’s not the case, get a BP and don’t look back as it’s also a great watch for almost $200 less!

 

[Hinclimincli]

Vsf / xf will pretty much replicate every modern Rolex including explorer 1 and 2.
they need clone movement for explorer 2 which I have feeling will be ready soon. I think they will rep GMT 2 first but who knows. If Rolex release new Explorer 2 this month I can bet VSF will jump on it. They have technology to rep those watches pretty fast.

if you like explorer 1 look into BP version. It looks pretty sweet.

May I ask, where does this intel come from?

 

[p0pperini]

Vsf / xf will pretty much replicate every modern Rolex including explorer 1 and 2.
they need clone movement for explorer 2 which I have feeling will be ready soon.

Is this based on any solid intel, or is it just wishful thinking? “I have a feeling” does make it sound rather like the latter.


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[rcom440]

Is this based on any solid intel, or is it just wishful thinking? “I have a feeling” does make it sound rather like the latter.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I have a feeling means it’s my guess based on what I heard from a reliable source.
Vsf planing to replicate every modern Rolex is a fact.

 

[p0pperini]

I have a feeling means it’s my guess based on what I heard from a reliable source.
Vsf planing to replicate every modern Rolex is a fact.

The key words there being “feeling/guess/planning”... The optimist in me wants to be excited by what you heard from your reliable source. The realist in me says I’ll believe it when I see it.

 

[Hinclimincli]

The key words there being “feeling/guess/planning”... The optimist in me wants to be excited by what you heard from your reliable source. The realist in me says I’ll believe it when I see it.

Been in this hobby enough not to expect much from those exact words, that's why I was asking. I still remember the "about to release a true Patek clone movement" and the "ARF has a true GMT almost ready" and both took more than three years to turn into reality. And in the case of the Patek it ended up being another completely different factory.

 

[p0pperini]

And in the case of the Patek it ended up being another completely different factory.

And I'm sure, given your long time in the hobby, you can also cite plenty of examples where a factory's success with one line/model didn't guarantee that everything else they released was similarly impressive.

 

[Hinclimincli]

And I'm sure, given your long time in the hobby, you can also cite plenty of examples where a factory's success with one line/model didn't guarantee that everything else they released was similarly impressive.

Sorry, this is a thread about ARF, not NOOB.

(but jokes aside, factories are usually consistent, I don’t remember any specific example of a massive fail coming from an otherwise stellar factory)

 

[p0pperini]

Sorry, this is a thread about ARF, not NOOB.

(but jokes aside, factories are usually consistent, I don’t remember any specific example of a massive fail coming from an otherwise stellar factory)

LOL. But, Noob aside, that's interesting to hear - I expected it wouldn't be the case (and there's the pessimist in me coming out).

 

[Hinclimincli]

Overpriced or not, it pairs very well with some champagne by the pool

 

[m5smg2]

Overpriced or not, it pairs very well with some champagne by the pool

Sweet set up friend. Liking the row of planters too

 

[Hinclimincli]

Sweet set up friend. Liking the row of planters too

Thanks mate! And the strawberries on the plot are just a few weeks away from being ready for harvest. Perfect addition to the champagne!

 

[iang27]

Saying that I cannot seem to find a mint condition TC I am looking at these Arf’s and I see that there is two models on the Trusty website. The engraved rehaut and the plain rehaut.

Does anyone know if the rehaut is the only difference between the two ?

I think the non engraved version reminds me more of what the watch was like in its day so I am leaning towards that but with the later insert with the correct 2 and the later clasp with the centred crown.

Is the SH3135 rubbish and does it have issues so is it worth changing it to the VS or VR immediately.
Is one better than the other for this watch and do they still need a gen date wheel .

I was hoping to just be able to fit a gen Crystal but not sure if any of the rep date wheels are good enough.

 

[Hinclimincli]

As far as I know ARF only does the non-engraved repair version, the engraved one must be JF (out of stock everywhere/discontinued) or BP.

The Crystal on my ARF is surprisingly good, actually. I have a gen Crystal without LEC and I’m not really sure if I want to swap it, it’s really clear and let’s the dial show the glossy deep black colour perfectly. I have a VR3135 coming so maybe I’ll do the Crystal change once I install the new movement.

 

[iang27]

They have quite recently added the engraved rehaut version with the correct 2 on the insert 20 and the Rolex crown is centered now.

 

[iang27]

https://trustytime.io/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_7&products_id=22887

 

[McDuck888]

Regarding the BP's, there's some info in the thread linked below.

They are good enough for daily beaters and to scratch the itch for a 16610. The SA3135's have the date window in the correct position, the ETA/DG versions do not. The 3135 version has a gen spec crystal and can be fitted with a gen crystal. The ETA/DG versions will take a gen-spec crystal only by using two gaskets, a mod I've done successfully a few times.

No BP versions will take a gen-spec insert without shaving the outer perimeter a bit. But there are plenty of aftermarket inserts that will fit without modding.

Insert measurements (approximate)
Gen 30.6/37.65
BP 30.6/37.5

The case shape and CGs are pretty good IMO. The bracelets needs some smoothing but 30 minutes with a sanding stick and ultrasound cleaning makes them acceptable for vintage era. SEL recess is good.

3135 with aftermarket blue insert. (~$358)
The movement needs replacing with a VR but so does the SH tbh

LV 2836 stock. (~$268)
I have a BP 3135 dial and am going to swap it and the crystal when I can get to it.

https://forum.replica-watch.info/for...-in-bp-16613lb

Ahh! Now I understand how (a very long time ago) when I put a spare gen AR xtal in my BP 16618LB for fun and just used the BP xtal gasket - you’d said “yikes” and given me lots of great info on how I could create a nice double gasket situation and much more. I’d not noticed a problem, but my 16618lb had SA3135 movement. I must’ve not mentioned that it had a SA3135. And I didn’t know about the differences across BP 16613/16610/16618 model’s crystal format according to movement etc. So I feel lucky for it having been truly 3135.

And I bet I didn’t even give you any clues that it was a 3135 by mentioning that I swapped the dial to get rid of the rubbish BP blue one, or that I swapped a datewheel for a gen champagne spare I had in my parts drawers. Etc. Now I seeeeees.

Sorry everyone for the BP talk. Please excuse that distraction from the topic. Was excited to see those details from KJ written.

I think if you get a BP 16610LN and it had a SA3135 you could love it. I haven’t read the whole thread but I wonder if you could almost decide ARF or BP based on whether you fancy rehaut engravings (BP) or not (current ARF at TDs) at this stage. Both could be great.

 

[McDuck888]

I was a whole forum page behind you all. I hadn't known an engraved rehaut ARF 16610 is very recently released. I'd been pining for a five-digit rehaut engraved case for it being different to my TC, and I'd missed the JF months and months back. Really pleased to see it!

 

[Hinclimincli]

I was a whole forum page behind you all. I hadn't known an engraved rehaut ARF 16610 is very recently released. I'd been pining for a five-digit rehaut engraved case for it being different to my TC, and I'd missed the JF months and months back. Really pleased to see it!

It’s actually good news that they improved it a little bit. Doesn’t matter much to me as I prefer the no rehaut version and I’m putting a hollow end links bracelet on it. I think the real upgrade ARF should work into is to use VR3135s in their Subs instead of the old and unreliable SH3135 and their crappy reverse winding wheels.

 

[McDuck888]

It’s actually good news that they improved it a little bit. Doesn’t matter much to me as I prefer the no rehaut version and I’m putting a hollow end links bracelet on it. I think the real upgrade ARF should work into is to use VR3135s in their Subs instead of the old and unreliable SH3135 and their crappy reverse winding wheels.

Yes! - Right on. The dream dude.