APSF and ZF Royal Oak 15500 w 4302 clone caliber

[legend]

IIRC the dial color of @legend's gen looked similar in pics but it had more sunburst.

Colors on screen can be rather subjective due to lighting, angles and filters on the camera lenses. The only way to accurately ascertain colors is to have both watches side by side under the same lighting condition. The comparison will only be meaningful that way.
I think reps should and can be enjoyed on their own, the level to which they are manufactured these days is impressive. Put it another way: if a watch costing say $30k can be replicated perfectly for $500, then the price difference between the two can be attributed to brand value, provenance and pedigree, and the product value of the gen will be $500. This is however not the case as there are many details on the gen, subtle and small as they are, which are not replicated on the rep. They may or may not be noticeable in real life but they exist for sure. So the gen owner pays $30k for his watch and the rep owner pays $500 for his, which looks and feels (subjectively) between 80-95% of the gen one. There is already a lot of value in the rep in this aspect and there is no need to compare the gen and rep further. Visuals aside, gen luxury watch ownership is far beyond owning a luxury watch, but rather the holistic experience of knowing your watch has Swiss provenance and history and the satisfaction of the ownership experience across its spectrum. This can never be replicated. How much that is worth is subjective though and for those who don’t really care or mind not enjoying this spectrum, then owning a rep is good enough as far as having a nice watch on the wrist for whatever purpose which suits the wearer.
So when someone asks “how close is this to gen?”, it depends on how far you wish to consider the experience of gen ownership. Most wearers take themselves out of the equation when it comes to comparisons but for me that is a significant factor in pulling off any watch at all. Confidence and attitude are key, far more important than the shape or size of tapisseries on the dial.

 

[BillyMadison]

Reps are reps and do not need to be “gen worthy” to be enjoyed. They can be worn and appreciated on their own, let’s not forget the different price points of the two.
You have a nice looking watch on your wrist. It isn’t an AP but it doesn’t need to be one. You will get the due admiration and compliments when wearing it in real life and for me it’s very impressive how something costing $500 or so replicates something costing far more, to this respectable degree. Wear it well!

Totally agree. I only meant that although I'm not qualified to assess this dial and its sunburst as compared to gen, but I'm sure it does not compare (because no rep really can). For $500, this is a nice watch. My only disappointment with it is that it isn't the black dial I ordered . As an owner of several reps and a couple gens (not AP), I appreciate each watch for what it is. Some of my reps are at least arguably prettier than the gens, but the gens being gens hold a different kind of value to me.

 

[legend]

Totally agree. I only meant that although I'm not qualified to assess this dial and its sunburst as compared to gen, but I'm sure it does not compare (because no rep really can). For $500, this is a nice watch. My only disappointment with it is that it isn't the black dial I ordered . As an owner of several reps and a couple gens (not AP), I appreciate each watch for what it is. Some of my reps are at least arguably prettier than the gens, but the gens being gens hold a different kind of value to me.

You have a very nice watch. If you like you can always swap the dial and dw out for the black set. I agree it’ll look more palatable, with the color clearly defined at least.

 

[Ekko95]

The color of the gen and rep greys are as far off as can be, trust me. If you look at them side by side, you will instantly be able to tell which is which.
The material of the dial, the way the tapisseries are created, the color and the finish all combine to give you the visual effect which only gen dials can have.

The color of the gen and rep greys are as far off as can be, trust me. If you look at them side by side, you will instantly be able to tell which is which.
The material of the dial, the way the tapisseries are created, the color and the finish all combine to give you the visual effect which only gen dials can have.

@legend and which dial from ZF would you say as an expert is the closest one to gen? Black or blue?

 

[legend]

@legend and which dial from ZF would you say as an expert is the closest one to gen? Black or blue?

To answer you directly my opinion is that the black dial from ZF is closer than the blue. But that isn’t to say that the black (or any color) dial is 1:1 with gen. It is just closer IMHO.

 

[joeyc]

Colors on screen can be rather subjective due to lighting, angles and filters on the camera lenses. The only way to accurately ascertain colors is to have both watches side by side under the same lighting condition. The comparison will only be meaningful that way.
I think reps should and can be enjoyed on their own, the level to which they are manufactured these days is impressive. Put it another way: if a watch costing say $30k can be replicated perfectly for $500, then the price difference between the two can be attributed to brand value, provenance and pedigree, and the product value of the gen will be $500. This is however not the case as there are many details on the gen, subtle and small as they are, which are not replicated on the rep. They may or may not be noticeable in real life but they exist for sure. So the gen owner pays $30k for his watch and the rep owner pays $500 for his, which looks and feels (subjectively) between 80-95% of the gen one. There is already a lot of value in the rep in this aspect and there is no need to compare the gen and rep further. Visuals aside, gen luxury watch ownership is far beyond owning a luxury watch, but rather the holistic experience of knowing your watch has Swiss provenance and history and the satisfaction of the ownership experience across its spectrum. This can never be replicated. How much that is worth is subjective though and for those who don’t really care or mind not enjoying this spectrum, then owning a rep is good enough as far as having a nice watch on the wrist for whatever purpose which suits the wearer.
So when someone asks “how close is this to gen?”, it depends on how far you wish to consider the experience of gen ownership. Most wearers take themselves out of the equation when it comes to comparisons but for me that is a significant factor in pulling off any watch at all. Confidence and attitude are key, far more important than the shape or size of tapisseries on the dial.

Very well put, I feel
The same exact way, however i always think if I was a diver, my diving watch would be a gen, like a race car driver driving a replica. Your life depends on it- I want a Swiss watch lol

 

[locvs]

Very well put, I feel
The same exact way, however i always think if I was a diver, my diving watch would be a gen, like a race car driver driving a replica. Your life depends on it- I want a Swiss watch lol

If you were a diver, you'd be wearing a diving computer. I doubt any pro divers use swiss diving watches anymore. Maybe as a back up, but diving computers are the norm, as they give you a lot more information, better readibility etc. etc.

 

[locvs]

A very nice Comparison of all available 15500 right now:

https://[[Redacted due to phishing ...al_blog_category_id=6&journal_blog_post_id=99

 

[lovegensandreps]

A very nice Comparison of all available 15500 right now:

https://[[Redacted due to phishing ...al_blog_category_id=6&journal_blog_post_id=99

Omg thats perfect, Steve did it again. I would have loved to also see the black dials comparison but alas one can't have it all.

 

[BillyMadison]

Paid for my black dial APSF 15500 from Puretime today. If this one disappoints, going to give the white one a try.

 

[speedywombat]

You won't be disappointed. I had a black royal oak which I sold but now I want it back. I feel eventually I will have the Royal oak in every single color

Paid for my black dial APSF 15500 from Puretime today. If this one disappoints, going to give the white one a try.

 

[fletch512]

Paid for my black dial APSF 15500 from Puretime today. If this one disappoints, going to give the white one a try.

I've now had the APSF white/silver dial for a couple weeks. Overall, I like the watch quite a bit. The dial definitely has a strong sunburst effect under most lighting, if you're looking for a little bling. It has a pronounced silver tone under most lighting, but does turn more eggshell/off-white under indirect light.

I did have to decline a couple watches in quality control, the first because the dial markers were not straight (the AP on the dial was slightly crooked but not bad), and the second because the hex bezel screws looked a bit small for the bezel holes and were over-rotated (seems pretty common on this rep). The third QC was as good as it gets, so the alignment problems vary pretty dramatically from batch to batch.

Overall, the watch face looks pretty good to my eyes, though I haven't seen the gen white dial in-person, so nothing I can directly compare. The open case back and the movement looks good and feels smooth. On the downside, the bracelet feels flimsy with rough edges on the undersigned. This is a stark contrast to other reps I have, in particular Rolex, which feel more substantial at the same price point. I read that the ZF 15500 bracelet is even worse, which is hard to believe if true. My BBR AP perpetual calendar bracelet, on the other hand, has a much better in finish and feel. Feel aside, the bracelet looks fine on the wrist. Also, one of the bezel screws fell out, luckily on my car seat where it was easily retrieved. All the bezel screws needed tightening upon receipt.

Those slight concerns aside, I would still recommend the APSF 15500. I don't know about the NWBIG classifications, but even though I can afford to buy the gen, I'm more than happy with the rep at this price point comparison.

 

[BillyMadison]

I've now had the APSF white/silver dial for a couple weeks. Overall, I like the watch quite a bit. The dial definitely has a strong sunburst effect under most lighting, if you're looking for a little bling. It has a pronounced silver tone under most lighting, but does turn more eggshell/off-white under indirect light.

I did have to decline a couple watches in quality control, the first because the dial markers were not straight (the AP on the dial was slightly crooked but not bad), and the second because the hex bezel screws looked a bit small for the bezel holes and were over-rotated (seems pretty common on this rep). The third QC was as good as it gets, so the alignment problems vary pretty dramatically from batch to batch.

Overall, the watch face looks pretty good to my eyes, though I haven't seen the gen white dial in-person, so nothing I can directly compare. The open case back and the movement looks good and feels smooth. On the downside, the bracelet feels flimsy with rough edges on the undersigned. This is a stark contrast to other reps I have, in particular Rolex, which feel more substantial at the same price point. I read that the ZF 15500 bracelet is even worse, which is hard to believe if true. My BBR AP perpetual calendar bracelet, on the other hand, has a much better in finish and feel. Feel aside, the bracelet looks fine on the wrist. Also, one of the bezel screws fell out, luckily on my car seat where it was easily retrieved. All the bezel screws needed tightening upon receipt.

Those slight concerns aside, I would still recommend the APSF 15500. I don't know about the NWBIG classifications, but even though I can afford to buy the gen, I'm more than happy with the rep at this price point comparison.

Yeah, that looks like a good one. I went with black specifically in hopes it's less flashy than the white, but I was really close to ordering white anyway because I have too many SS/black watches. Ultimately, I am what I am and I like what I like lol

The grey one I received for my first order was nicely built, aside from a slightly off 6 o'clock marker. I thought the bezel screws were pretty well done on mine. I also thought the stick brushing on my first one was pretty good. Hoping this one is as nice in those aspects.

I gave my 15500 bracelet an ultrasonic bath and then put it in a baggy of Muc-Off Dry Lube for a few hours after working the bracelet a bit in the bag. I thought it came out feeling better/more solid/less noisy. I also did that to my ARF sub and I swear it's as good as gen. The 15500 wasn't as good as that one, but I'll still do it again with my new 15500. I also bought a polishing stick to soften the edges if needed again.

 

[joeyc]

Steve thanks so much Great job, I have the blue dial apsf 15500, I could not be happier

 

[peterpl]

I just got my APSF 15500 today as well. Blue dial. Its very nice

The movement is buttery smooth - even smoother than the Rolex clone movements which I feel is amazing. However the bracelet I am disappointed with. It feels a little sharp and rough and honestly kind of cheap.

Is that what everything is feeling regarding the bracelet? I havent bought an AP rep in a while but I remember my old ZF 15400 bracelet felt much better and substantial without no rattles and not as sharp either.

 

[speedywombat]

I just got my APSF 15500 today as well. Blue dial. Its very nice

The movement is buttery smooth - even smoother than the Rolex clone movements which I feel is amazing. However the bracelet I am disappointed with. It feels a little sharp and rough and honestly kind of cheap.

Is that what everything is feeling regarding the bracelet? I havent bought an AP rep in a while but I remember my old ZF 15400 bracelet felt much better and substantial without no rattles and not as sharp either.

Bracelet seems to be either hit or miss. My 15500 bracelet white dial was amazing, but the 15500 blue was meh.

 

[peterpl]

Bracelet seems to be either hit or miss. My 15500 bracelet white dial was amazing, but the 15500 blue was meh.

Hmmm interesting. So different batches of bracelets are being used on the APSF?

Does anyone have instructions on how they are getting their bracelets less sharp and more smoother feeling? I already dipped it in degreaser to remove all the dirt and grime and bathed it in baby oil which has made it feel a little better but its still not the quality I expect and obviously the sharpness is still there.

I think we can solve the sharpness with very high grit sandpaper but I am afraid of ruining the bracelet. LOL

 

[speedywombat]

Hmmm interesting. So different batches of bracelets are being used on the APSF?

Does anyone have instructions on how they are getting their bracelets less sharp and more smoother feeling? I already dipped it in degreaser to remove all the dirt and grime and bathed it in baby oil which has made it feel a little better but its still not the quality I expect and obviously the sharpness is still there.

I think we can solve the sharpness with very high grit sandpaper but I am afraid of ruining the bracelet. LOL

I have no idea about the batches, but yeah it *seems* that way because both my 15500s that I was talking about were APSF.

 

[BillyMadison]

Hmmm interesting. So different batches of bracelets are being used on the APSF?

Does anyone have instructions on how they are getting their bracelets less sharp and more smoother feeling? I already dipped it in degreaser to remove all the dirt and grime and bathed it in baby oil which has made it feel a little better but its still not the quality I expect and obviously the sharpness is still there.

I think we can solve the sharpness with very high grit sandpaper but I am afraid of ruining the bracelet. LOL

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.esslinger.com/bergeon-2290-3-part-polishing-and-buffing-stick/&ved=2ahUKEwjz6cGT8Y-GAxVAMDQIHSD2BGkQFnoECBEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3EUn4Y0aCHp3sZff3FCqyi

The three colors offer different levels of polishing. Start with most aggressive and work through all three. There's YouTube videos showing how to do it.

 

[joeyc]

I just got my APSF 15500 today as well. Blue dial. Its very nice

The movement is buttery smooth - even smoother than the Rolex clone movements which I feel is amazing. However the bracelet I am disappointed with. It feels a little sharp and rough and honestly kind of cheap.

Is that what everything is feeling regarding the bracelet? I havent bought an AP rep in a while but I remember my old ZF 15400 bracelet felt much better and substantial without no rattles and not as sharp either.

So my bracelet feels gen no joke, even just the polishing and slughtly roughness and weight. Maybe could vary by Batches or who’s making their bracelet. Minus the ever so slight color blue and close up of tapestry there’s no way this does not look Gen