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XF Factory PAM005 finally out.

thorne

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themannier thank you, very clear. So it’s not just about pushing down the minute hand which has been wrongly installed - the factories have clearly used short CPs again.

I wish after all these years they would just use tall CPs - surely the cost is negligible.

We need to replace the rep short CP with a tall CP for the best outcome. Which reminded me of Francisco’s CP mod tutorial many years ago.

Your photos also show the XF dial lume clearly.

The gen 005 is a single layer dial that is engraved, then filled with lume up to just below the surface, leaving an indent around the edges of indices as below, also called a ‘sausage’ dial:

6a236cebe57aaf186f6b68c84904bbc3.jpg




As we know the 111/112 etc dial is a two layer ‘sandwich’ dial, which is completely different from the 005/000 single layer engraved + filled ‘sausage’ dial.

While in themannier photos the XF is clearly a ‘painted’ dial, the lume has been just painted on top on the dial - without first engraving the indices into the dial and then filling the indices - as there is no ‘indent’ along the edges of the numbers/indices.

Though sometimes the words ‘sausage’ and ‘painted’ are used interchangeably, there is a distinct difference between the two.

Painted is obviously easier and cheaper for the factories to rep. While the XF 005 replication is very good, this is a clear tell for someone who knows what to look for - all the gen 005/000 are engraved/filled ‘sausage’ dials and not ‘painted’.

Well and of course the short CP is clearly another tell haha ????
 

sukwonee

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Well said thornet81

And I believe HF sausage dials were the only ones that did this somewhat right for 000 and 005 Pams.

G and pre-G series gen sausage dials used on 001, 002, 004, etc were not filled but painted on top of the dial as far as I am aware of. These dials look and should look very different from modern day 005s and 000s.
 

thorne

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Well said thornet81

And I believe HF sausage dials were the only ones that did this somewhat right for 000 and 005 Pams.

G and pre-G series gen sausage dials used on 001, 002, 004, etc were not filled but painted on top of the dial as far as I am aware of. These dials look and should look very different from modern day 005s and 000s.

You are correct, back then HFac dials were the best at the sausage lume application, compared to Noob at the time. But nowhere even close to Rolli / Ziggy / FGD sausage dials, that were the best after gen.
I remember at the time trying to make a 005 Noob case / HFac dial hybrid. I would need to buy both watches, and then send to Ziggy to relume the HF dial (Rolli / FGD did not do relumes).
The HF dial had the better lume application, but the dial print was not as good/crisp as Noob.
Noob had the wrong lume application, but closer to gen dial print. Also better case than HF.
Then I found out Zig had shut shop. So in the end I scrapped that project.
 

themannier

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Well, I just bought a gen pam002 dial and hand set from a well known Italian seller, should be there this week.
I will instal this gen dial and hands in the XF case, I hope the dial diameter is the same, but it should fit I think, around 34mm...:eek:
Pictures to follow of the work and of the finished watch ;)
 

themannier

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As promised, I received today the gen pam002 dial and hands set, so let's see how this beautiful thing looks in the XF case !
First of all, the dial itself is a true beauty. This reminds me the gen pam000 I had a few years ago, 2 lines, perfectly balanced, makes it the best from Panerai IMO.
The good thing is that the dial diameter is the same as the XF 005 dial, 34mm.
The next step will be the polishing of the CG as the gen 002, but there is no hurry...
So here is a few shots of the dial itself, installed on the movement, and finally on my wrist, enjoy mates :rolleyes:




 

mrsullivan

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Oooh yes, that looks nice, great job.
So XF case measurements are ok then, good to know.

Envoyé de mon ELE-L29 en utilisant Tapatalk
 
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sukwonee

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themannier that looks beautiful! One thing tho (you probably already know this) but the Pam 002 CG shape is different from the modern CGs. It's not curved and it's not big in size. If you can source gen pre-G series polished CG or i believe it's... Jimmy fu (?) CG, it will be more accurate.
 

themannier

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themannier that looks beautiful! One thing tho (you probably already know this) but the Pam 002 CG shape is different from the modern CGs. It's not curved and it's not big in size. If you can source gen pre-G series polished CG or i believe it's... Jimmy fu (?) CG, it will be more accurate.

Yeah you're right bro, I will reshape the CG to make it thinner and polished later, like I did for mrsullivan and his pam088. It won't be perfect but closer to the 002 CG.
 
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thorne

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Just wanted to compare the excellent photos from themannier for those who would like to see the difference between gen and rep dial indices.

What the XF/Noob 005 dial indices look like on top, what a gen 005 dial indices should look like below.

You can clearly see the difference between the raised 4 index on XF and the sunken 4 index on the gen.

2d5705e2e23c110d19693475250cad15.jpg
 

sukwonee

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I am surprised to see this much indentations on Pam 002 Dial. I always thought that this "fill in" treatment of sausage dials started later (like in G series Pams). What is surprising to me is I have handled a Gen Pam 001B L before and the dial looked more like it had painted-on markers vs filled in.
 

KOT1917

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Well, I just bought a gen pam002 dial and hand set from a well known Italian seller, should be there this week.
I will instal this gen dial and hands in the XF case, I hope the dial diameter is the same, but it should fit I think, around 34mm...:eek:
Pictures to follow of the work and of the finished watch ;)

What will you do with caseback and case shape?
 

themannier

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I am surprised to see this much indentations on Pam 002 Dial. I always thought that this "fill in" treatment of sausage dials started later (like in G series Pams). What is surprising to me is I have handled a Gen Pam 001B L before and the dial looked more like it had painted-on markers vs filled in.

Mine is a 002 superluminova dial and hands, but I suppose you are referring to the old 002 tritium dial which may be a little different in terms of indexes and how they are applied...

Tritium 002 below ;)
 

superspark69

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0-E3-E772-F-EE30-4-E71-8-AFB-274-EE41-B7515.jpg


early sausage dials were also engraved, the dials with slightly raised lume on certain dials of the historical models such as 001,002,004,009 etc were considered less good than ones that were shallower in the indents. When the amazing dials from Rolli came out they were slightly indented like the good dials.
 
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sukwonee

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6-AA41838-3310-40-F4-9-B2-A-8-C3-E43-A10-FE9.jpg


you can see on this A/B series dial the lume below the dial surface in the indent.

I am so enlightened by all this. Idk why I always thought the earlier sausage dials were painted on. Back in the mid 2000s, I had a chance to play with someone's gen 001B "L" for a few minutes too... and thinking it had painted on dial haha. Thank you for this information.
 
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johnlogan

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Dial print on the XF looks to be a tad faint. I.e not as crisp as per GEN.
 
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