Very sick about this new war!

[mitchbaria]

I often get in trouble over talking anything other than watches, so I'm not going to get drug into a huge conflict here... That said, I know many have different opinions about this and probably strong feelings I myself do not, I'm just on the fence.. I don't know who to believe. I don't know whose behind this propaganda that's supposed to make us willing to do this. I don't believe that even if those fools are cutting Americans and allies heads off, which I don't believe they really are because those videos are obviously fake, I would then be convinced that after fifteen years of being over there that all of the sudden there's this huge army just popped up in the last three months out of nowhere....
I'm just really bummed out about this,,, I know those people want us gone it just doesn't make any sense they'd wait for us to leave to start poking at the US and friend countries.... None makes sense,, I'm sorry... I'm just not buying this at all....
WOW! Media Damage Control On James Foley Video: "…: http://youtu.be/AkoSo2PrX8k

I know there have been four more since then,,, but if anyone cares to search YouTube, there is plenty of real proof that all of these vids are bogus... I personally have dug into it so I won't argue the point as it's really not the heart of the thread but rather goes to support why I'm confused....

Another thing that bothers me is our media over here just reports this crap as if it's 100% solid... Why don't they question the info? I don't get it! And I'm pretty pissed about that much of it also,, I mean, shouldn't the media be asking questions? I mean where did this army come from? How did they have time to get all that stuff and uniforms and a flag? This just feels like B.S.!!!!

 

[Jordan27]

They are in the streets in Australia, Western Sydney is full of them, there's been recorded threats saying 'we will slaughter all of you" (Christians) "why don't you go overseas so we can cut your head off hahahaha" a defence member in uniform was surrounded in the city by pro Islamic state.. There are videos as old as 2011 of 'peaceful' protests in Sydney and Melbourne with the leaders waving the ISIS flag and spitting on and punching people who weren't with them.. There are a number of pro caliphate groups in Sydney that openly profess there views but no one does anything about it?

i could write pages and pages worth... How much is truth? Not sure I never trust the media, it's all through research that I have come to the conclusion that ISIS is dangerous, widespread and needs to be eradicated..

Debate.

 

[d4m.test]

Recently stumbled on the movie "Lawrence after Arabia" with Ralph Fiennes on Youtube (well done with diff. points-of-view) and it was a real eye-opener, reflecting on recent developments in the Middle East and how possibly everything could have turned out differently.

Flup for the interested: The Legacy of Lawrence of Arabia (BBC-docu)

 

[mitchbaria]

OK, Jordan,,, I'm with you simply because these nuts are willing to die to stuff their religion down others throats(no pun intended), so they claim, but as soon as the baddest, stomp your ass to death, military pulls in, those cowards, that your speaking of takes off their cheap, ninja suits and hide their weapons and flags then turn into the criminals that they really are... Where is the honor in that? If you claim to believe in something enough to fight and die for it then why not stand and fight? The middle east needs to learn laws and police people that commit crimes... I think the problem is that they are really barbarian criminals as a society... The whole lot are freaking lawless trash that can't stand and fight toe to toe but rather commit murders with no law to hold then accountable.... Just my opinion

 

[JAFO]

I don't believe ISIL is a CIA false flag op. There's more money coming out of Saudi Arabia than oil and almost all of it is funding wackos. Where did they get the money for the weapons? There's an ocean of cash sloshing around Dirtville funding anybody that wants to kill infidels. Where'd they get the weapons? The US and how many other countries have been pumping arms into that region for how many decades? Wanna know where the cheapes place to buy a truck load of guns is? A war zone. Where'd they get all the fighters they've recruited? Hell that's the easiest part. The extremists in the region have been teaching and preaching violence for millennia. And all they have to do is point at uncle Haroun's blowed up hut and bring a couple dead civvies and they sign up 100 more psychos. And there ain't no shortage of em - they ain't gonna run out any time soon.

Now, did the US fund any of this? Did we actually supply weapons to any of these people? Of course we did! You throw enough money and guns around and you're bound to hit more than a few psychos that are either easily swayed or were already dirt bags.

Are the videos staged? Of course. Are they fake? Sure looked to me like Foley's head sitting in the wrong spot at the end. Could they have the best special effects experts creating fake decapitated bodies? Sure. And Santy Claus really is gonna bring me a harem of hot bikini babes.

And even if or when these nut bags start chopping off heads in down town Sydney or D.C., there will be people who say it's fake.

Sometimes the boogey man really is real. But to each his own. Me - I'm headed down to the Walmart for some ammo and beer. No matter who's right, I'll be good and ready.

 

[mitchbaria]

I'm with you too JAFO... But I do think the vids are staged and the stills at the end with the head shots are photoshopped , but as I said fake video or not isn't really the point of the post,,,I think they're psychos and need to be beat to death with a bag full of rusty nails regardless of the bogus videos.... I just can't believe we were there for fifteen years and missed a thirty thousand man army,, please? I just don't buy it... Have you watched the vids of these fools in action fighting in Syria? They're a freaking joke,, our military laughs at this kind of crap... I agree with you totally but I just wish it wasnt being justified with more non existent WMDs..
Why would a terrorist go to that much trouble to fake a beheading only to then behead the same victim off camera?

 

[mitchbaria]

Why would a terrorist go too that much trouble to fake a beheading only to then behead the same victim off camera? That's all I'm saying,,, I don't think the vids really matter as far as should we get rid of Isis though....
Yes we should, but are they this big huge terrifying army? If so, where were they and why did they wait until we left to decide they're ready to fight?


You see I just have these really stupid questions like these?. Lol

 

[JAFO]

Look, we tried training up the Iraqi army for oh a decade or so. And it didn't work. Do I think sending advisors to train them will work now? Nope.

And everybody needs to keep in mind that it's not hard at all to rally several thousand people who are already radicalized. And the truth is a huge portion of the population there is already radicalized and there's more turning that way every day. And those people flock to the bloodiest, most ruthless leaders cause those are the ones that are gonna take the most ground. And these guys flocking to them think they're about to usher in the Caliphate. And maybe they are.

So the real question is this: do we, the US, allow the entire Mid East and all of Africa to fall and be under the strictest form of Sharia Law? Well, we could. Putin won't let em get but so far in Europe because he will smoke the living hell out of em. Now, can we kill these bastards over there before they come here? Sure we can. But not with air strikes only. Not unless we level the entire region. Plus, every time we drop a building and hit a convoy or inadvertently kill some civvies that these scum bags are hiding amongst, well there goes another thousand disaffected f**k sticks signing up to smoke some infidels and vindicate themselves by ruling the entire region. And that's why a terrorist organization would commit such horrific acts - because the West's inevitable response will further loosen the purse strings of their Saudi and other radical funders AND bring more lunatics out of woodwork to fight against "us".

So what do we do? Well, until the governments in the region stomp out the radical elements in their own countries, I'm not sure what we can do that won't be jihadi whack-a-mole. But I do know that some people do need killing...

 

[mitchbaria]

This I really agree with.... But our crazy government can't fix it while they don't understand it... Now they're attempting to kill an elephant with a flyswatter...

That said,

I've seen real beheading vids after this, because of this, and trust me they're done in dim rooms with shaky hand held video camera, poor quality audio and alot of people holding a very, very bloody victim while shouting "Allahu Akbar" many times... NOTHING SIMILAR TO THESE, PLEASE BELIEVE ME...

This is a lose lose situation, these people are criminals and until law is established and enforced this will grow and grow until we that are not murdered by cowards will be forced to totally eliminate the entire lot of them.

 

[SUMIKITO]

I does not take much to stir up anything, gas up the fire, make some noise, rattle your sabre from a soapbox, and assemble a mob. Most nut cases are always looking for a leader. When Ali Bubba, with a Harvard degree steps in, they find their 'Man'. And these repeat themselves in all the corners of the globe. Its not hard to assemble an angry mob. The guy with the loudest voice can put together a large group of torches and lynch thirsty individuals in no time. Running circles in a commandeered tank in the town plaza does not make you smart. But clowns are appreciated and cheered on for that. Some folks just love bloody entertainment. Heads on sticks are their 'decor' of choice. Without those online 'beheadings', we would still be on the fence. The 'beheadings' was the 'key' for us to flex muscle again. But not acting swiftly with a really big stick against the snake could have the snake sneaking up on you when you're asleep. You really cant be kind to barbarians. You have got to hit very hard. And fast.

 

[mitchbaria]

But nobody is addressing the part about these barbarians hiding their ninja suits and putting their freaking dresses on the minute the real barbarians pull up on their beach....How do you fight murderers that are really scared to stand and fight and will only kill you like a coward by a shot in the back or a IED or some other sneaky ass tactic? They will not fight while we're they're...

 

[JAFO]

these people are criminals and until law is established and enforced this will grow and grow until we that are not murdered by cowards will be forced to totally eliminate the entire lot of them.

See, that's the problem. Who's gonna step in and stomp it out? Most of the countries in the region have governments that are hanging on by a thread. They don't have the ability to stomp out these radical extremists because they're doing everything they can to hang on to power. Look at the royal family in Saudi Arabia. You know what would happen if they cut off the money to the Wahhabis and the madrassas in their country? They'd be overthrown in a second. And eventually they will be anyway, they're just buying time now. But all those crazies coming out of "schools" in that country are gonna get sick of being unemployed while the royals are drowning in cash and whoring their brains out.

And these radical nut cases see THIS as their moment to establish one Islamic state across the entire region. One giant Caliphate. So they're signing up so fast you can't believe it. Hell, we got women in the US taking off to join up with ISIL just so they can crank out babies! And that number will grow and grow and grow.

And what's happening around the world right now? You've got normal young people who have had good lives in Western countries that are becoming bedroom radicals. They're getting radicalized from the message pouring out of a computer monitor. And they're either gonna flock to Dirtville OR they're gonna start carrying out these atrocities here and in England and France and on and on and on...

So does it really matter if this sick f*ck really cut those guys heads off on camera OR faked it and then shot em and then chopped off their heads? No, it doesn't matter. Because the message will have the desired effect: It'll piss off us in the US and it will embolden the radicalized extremists all around the world. That is a win/win for these f*ckers. Cause no matter what we do, their numbers will swell and they will continue to roll across the Mid East.

The US can't solve this problem alone. And it seems, sickeningly so, that the strong governments in the region have no desire to step in and stop ISIL or whatever group of nut cases are running around next chopping off heads and arms and raping the women and the little girls and exterminating fellow Muslims.

 

[mitchbaria]

How many times have we seen this? Does anyone really believe there'll be an army waiting on us when we get there? Of course not, and it'll turn into a long drawn out occupation just like the last fifteen years...

 

[JAFO]

But nobody is addressing the part about these barbarians hiding their ninja suits and putting their freaking dresses on the minute the real barbarians pull up on their beach....How do you fight murderers that are really scared to stand and fight and will only kill you like a coward by a shot in the back or a IED or some other sneaky ass tactic? They will not fight while we're they're...

That's an insurgency, it's what they do. They look like everybody else in the region and they don't wear easily identifiable uniforms. It's gorilla warfare, and in this case it's semi urban gorilla warfare, unlike Vietnam where we could level vast swaths of jungle and countryside. And even then we still couldn't smoke enough of em to force em to give up. When you fight an enemy that blends in with the indigs and is literally embedded in the communities, it's damn near impossible to destroy them without killing off so many civilians that the entire world loses the stomach for the fight and at the same time we enrage and embolden more loons by the thousands.

 

[mitchbaria]

Your correct sir and there's no solution in the near future...we should either commit and control those idiots over there or stay out of there and manage our borders and make it d so bad on them when they pull something here, it's just not done....as Putin does,, when a terrorist hits Russia his/her entire family is tortured to death...

 

[JAFO]

How many times have we seen this? Does anyone really believe there'll be an army waiting on us when we get there? Of course not, and it'll turn into a long drawn out occupation just like the last fifteen years...

Well, yeah, of course it will turn into an occupation. Either we occupy the region with a vast presence OR we set up puppet governments propped up by us. OR we just say f**k em all and write off Africa and the Mid East and part of Europe. So, again, the question is which option does America want to take?

 

[JAFO]

And I hope everybody understands that we are having a conversation here - even if none of us agree on anything, at least we're talking about it. Which is a good thing.

 

[mitchbaria]

The pity-pat approach until the next election... Sadly as much as I hoped this president would rise to the occasion he's turning out to be very weak in the eyes of the world, and those fools over there know it...

 

[mitchbaria]

Of course,,, geniuses at work here.. Lol. Be careful when this much talent is in the same thread...

 

[mitchbaria]

That's an insurgency, it's what they do. They look like everybody else in the region and they don't wear easily identifiable uniforms. It's gorilla warfare, and in this case it's semi urban gorilla warfare, unlike Vietnam where we could level vast swaths of jungle and countryside. And even then we still couldn't smoke enough of em to force em to give up. When you fight an enemy that blends in with the indigs and is literally embedded in the communities, it's damn near impossible to destroy them without killing off so many civilians that the entire world loses the stomach for the fight and at the same time we enrage and embolden more loons by the thousands.

Correction, they are like everybody else in the region! The moderates are in sympathy with the extremist,, over all the same.... When Hitler slaughtered millions and millions of innocent people did it matter that the average Germans were good moral people? The moderates are never counted when atrocities happen...
Looking back none talk about all those good moderate Germans in Nazi Germany... Same thing with Muslims one day...