just an aside; why is the gen better. we are not talking aesthetics here. we are saying that a swiss company has better thast than a chinese copier. sure i understand the movement is better and the finish is clearly better. from a design aspect is the premium really there? we are talking about 200bucks in finishing work from a good jeweler. just a thought....
-
Tired of adverts on RWI? - Subscribe by clicking HERE and PMing Trailboss for instructions and they will magically go away!
Vacheron Constantin Overseas: Gen vs. Rep Comparison
- Thread starter honeybear
- Start date
Too easy. Cross logo, dial numbers, detail overall... way too easy to pick the rep, even in the first photo. Thanks for the comparison shots. 
I think it is fair to say that there is a phenomenal profit margin in high-end watches if one if comparing the retail price to the incremental cost of manufacturing another watch.
However, development costs need to be recouped, and due to the relatively small volume of sales for high-end watches, this can be a substantial portion of the retail price... the price of exclusivity. Indeed, one even sees this in the rep world, for a given price, the quality of the highly popular replicas is dramatically better than the rep of a less popular watch.
I think you grossly underestimate the cost of high quality finishing, I would like to find a jeweler capable of taking a replica to the level of Vacheron finishing for $200. Jewelers capable of that level of precision finishing are relatively rare, and would presumably charge a premium for their work. If you do know of a jeweler capable of such work, and willing to charge such low prices, I'm sure many forum members would be more than happy to keep that jeweler busy with mods to their reps.
Like in many things, it is possible to achieve a substantial fraction, say 90%, of the fit and finish of a ultra high-end watch, for perhaps 5% of the price, but those last few percentage points will cost you dearly. A case in point, going from a noobmariner to a BK/WM9 is approximately a factor of 5-6 in price. Is it really worth the price premium of those last few percentage points, maybe, maybe not, only you can really answer that question.
All the little things add up dramatically in price, reluming the dial and hands, applying A/R to the bottom of the crystal, hand polishing every link in the bracelet, waterproofing...
I am not saying that the gen is better because it is Swiss, it is better because of the quality of the finishing, and the meticulous care in every aspect of the execution. I have a high regard for Chinese mechanical watches from Seagull, Beijing and Shanghai watch companies; some of their watches are truly a sight to behold, like their double tourbillons.
I don't know, perhaps you are fortunate enough in South America to still have skilled artisan jewelers willing to work for reasonable (by global standards) prices. If so, I think you could make a killing by buying well constructed reps of ultra high end watches, finishing them to gen like levels, and reselling them here.
However, with regards to this specific gen and rep, even if it were possible to do this level of finishing cheaply, one would still have to address the issues like the weak screws and less than perfect bracelet fit, which appear to be intrinsic to the general design of the replica bracelet.
The screw is weak, since it has the screw threads and screw head on the same side, like the gen, but executed in a softer steel, which makes them very prone to stripping (if the threads are not deep enough), or the screw head shearing off (if the threads are too deep). This is an instance where it would have been preferable to deviate from the gen construction, and have screws with screw heads and threads at opposite ends.
The issue with the screws is a practical constraint to how well things like the bracelet could be refinished. If they were stronger, I would have disassembled the entire bracelet, and hand refinished the interior edges of each bracelet link. in fact, I did refinish the two links which meet together at the clasp, since they were preventing the bracelet from coming together smoothly. However, if I were to continue removing metal from the links until they are perfectly mirror smooth, there would be too much of a gap where they meet.
The point I am trying to make is that gen level execution (at say the PP, VC, and AP standard) requires that care be taken throughout the manufacturing process, and not just at the final hand finishing level. Just look at Rolex and their investment in temperature controlled CNC machines.
Is the gen watch a good value for money, probably not if you're comparing it to the rep. In watches, like in cars, one pays dearly for a superlative level of refinement, that often focuses on the enjoyment of what is possible, as opposed to what is necessary or apparent from a superficial observation. Let's not kid ourselves, mechanical watches are like jewelry, and the cost of perfection is extraordinarily higher than mere functionality could justify.
But, I would say that the VCO it is an exceptional value compared to most other gens at that price range, primarily on the basis of quality of execution.
I guess for me, owning a rep doesn't necessarily obliviate the desire for the gen. Indeed, it sometimes makes me appreciate the fine details of the gen more than I would otherwise.
It also provides me with a relatively inexpensive way of test driving a variety of watches, so that I can decide what my next gen purchase should be. Furthermore, I have replicas of watches for which the wear time and the value proposition doesn't make sense for me.
If I were looking for a rep of a very popular watch, like a Rolex, or an Omega Planet Ocean, where the demand was sufficiently high that there were truly super replicas, then owning the corresponding gen would become less of a priority. I would however still want a Rolex GMT IIC, due to the GMT complication with the quickset 12 hour hand.
When speaking of value, there are a number of genuine watches in the $300-$400 range, which I own, and which I think are excellent value as well. These include:
1. Tissot Le Locle
2. Seiko SARB035 (Japanese Domestic Model)
3. Orient 60th Anniversary Watch
These are priced at the level of some of the super replicas, and have very good quality of finish, and excellent quality control. A wonderful example of a top notch chinese mechanical watch is the Beijing Zhufeng watch which in the same price range. Were it not for the aesthetics of the VCO replica, and the fact that it looks for all intents and purposes like a watch 35x as expensive, I would say that any of the three gens above, or the Beijing Zhufeng would be possibly a better value.
I just bristle a bit at the implication that I blindly believe that a watch is better simply because it is Swiss. I appreciate excellent craftsmanship irrespective of national origin. At the end of the day, I just sometimes wish that high end replicas were built with the same attention to the basics, like waterproofing, lume, movement oiling, and QC that every Seiko 5 is built with.
Tissot Le Locle
Seiko SARB035
Orient 60th Anniversary Watch
Beijing Zhufeng Watch
It also provides me with a relatively inexpensive way of test driving a variety of watches, so that I can decide what my next gen purchase should be. Furthermore, I have replicas of watches for which the wear time and the value proposition doesn't make sense for me.
If I were looking for a rep of a very popular watch, like a Rolex, or an Omega Planet Ocean, where the demand was sufficiently high that there were truly super replicas, then owning the corresponding gen would become less of a priority. I would however still want a Rolex GMT IIC, due to the GMT complication with the quickset 12 hour hand.
When speaking of value, there are a number of genuine watches in the $300-$400 range, which I own, and which I think are excellent value as well. These include:
1. Tissot Le Locle
2. Seiko SARB035 (Japanese Domestic Model)
3. Orient 60th Anniversary Watch
These are priced at the level of some of the super replicas, and have very good quality of finish, and excellent quality control. A wonderful example of a top notch chinese mechanical watch is the Beijing Zhufeng watch which in the same price range. Were it not for the aesthetics of the VCO replica, and the fact that it looks for all intents and purposes like a watch 35x as expensive, I would say that any of the three gens above, or the Beijing Zhufeng would be possibly a better value.
I just bristle a bit at the implication that I blindly believe that a watch is better simply because it is Swiss. I appreciate excellent craftsmanship irrespective of national origin. At the end of the day, I just sometimes wish that high end replicas were built with the same attention to the basics, like waterproofing, lume, movement oiling, and QC that every Seiko 5 is built with.
Tissot Le Locle
Seiko SARB035
Orient 60th Anniversary Watch
Beijing Zhufeng Watch
So, an update on my VCO replica. Since receiving it on Saturday, I've done some minor tinkering with it:
1. When I posted my initial comparison shots of the Vacheron Constantin Overseas replica, one of the things that bothered me was the improper alignment where the bracelet attaches to the watch head. So, I removed the screws on the back which attached the bracelet, and reseated the bracelet, and tightly fastened the screws. These caseback screws are more robust than the bracelet screws, since the screw head and threads are on opposite ends, unlike the bracelet screws.
2. I also filed down the edges of the links which come together at the clasp, since it was preventing the clasp from coming together securely, and I filed down one of the screws on the side of the watch, which attach the endlink to the rest of the bracelet, since it was sticking out, but was too tight to remove and reseat.
3. Used threadlock on the bracelet screws. Be careful with these screws as they are very weak. I sheared off the top of one screw head while resizing the bracelet, and had to use a pair of needle nose pliers to remove the screw. I find that reversing the direction when encountering resistance helps seat the threads properly, and makes fastening the screws more pain free.
Anyhow, the fit is now much better, see the attached photos. I just wanted to say that flaws aside, this is really quite a decent rep, not quite at the level of the super replicas, but it looks credible on the wrist. Some things which could be done to the existing rep aftermarket include:
1. Polishing the polished indents on the bracelet links more throughly. Currently, it is not quite mirror smooth, and there is some unevenness to the polishing.
2. Smoothing then brushing the interior edges of the bracelet. Currently, the edges are not uniformly finished, some parts are smooth and some are brushed.
Things which would require a retool at the factory, or a more involved mod:
1. The connection between the endlink and the rest of the bracelet is a bit abrupt, it seems to have just a bit too much of a gap, and there is an awkward kink where they meet, perhaps because of my smaller 6.75" wrist.
2. The lume on the dial and the hands should have the same color. While I would certainly prefer the whitish lume color, even the greenish lume would be okay, as long as both the hands and the dial indices had the same colored lume.
3. The dial could be more shiny, maybe a clear coat of lacquer would help?
4. Switch to either hardened steel bracelet screws, or a design where the screw head is opposite to the threads.
1. When I posted my initial comparison shots of the Vacheron Constantin Overseas replica, one of the things that bothered me was the improper alignment where the bracelet attaches to the watch head. So, I removed the screws on the back which attached the bracelet, and reseated the bracelet, and tightly fastened the screws. These caseback screws are more robust than the bracelet screws, since the screw head and threads are on opposite ends, unlike the bracelet screws.
2. I also filed down the edges of the links which come together at the clasp, since it was preventing the clasp from coming together securely, and I filed down one of the screws on the side of the watch, which attach the endlink to the rest of the bracelet, since it was sticking out, but was too tight to remove and reseat.
3. Used threadlock on the bracelet screws. Be careful with these screws as they are very weak. I sheared off the top of one screw head while resizing the bracelet, and had to use a pair of needle nose pliers to remove the screw. I find that reversing the direction when encountering resistance helps seat the threads properly, and makes fastening the screws more pain free.
Anyhow, the fit is now much better, see the attached photos. I just wanted to say that flaws aside, this is really quite a decent rep, not quite at the level of the super replicas, but it looks credible on the wrist. Some things which could be done to the existing rep aftermarket include:
1. Polishing the polished indents on the bracelet links more throughly. Currently, it is not quite mirror smooth, and there is some unevenness to the polishing.
2. Smoothing then brushing the interior edges of the bracelet. Currently, the edges are not uniformly finished, some parts are smooth and some are brushed.
Things which would require a retool at the factory, or a more involved mod:
1. The connection between the endlink and the rest of the bracelet is a bit abrupt, it seems to have just a bit too much of a gap, and there is an awkward kink where they meet, perhaps because of my smaller 6.75" wrist.
2. The lume on the dial and the hands should have the same color. While I would certainly prefer the whitish lume color, even the greenish lume would be okay, as long as both the hands and the dial indices had the same colored lume.
3. The dial could be more shiny, maybe a clear coat of lacquer would help?
4. Switch to either hardened steel bracelet screws, or a design where the screw head is opposite to the threads.
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/...m/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&img=377
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/...m/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&img=378
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/...m/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&img=379
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/...m/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&img=380
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/...m/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&img=381
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/...m/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&img=382
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/...m/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&img=385
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/...m/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&img=384
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/...m/index.php?app=gallery&module=images&img=386
Any chance of getting side by side lume shots Honeybear? Thinking of picking one of these up - not sure black or white yet but likely I'll get it lumed and possibly double AR. You think it needs it?
The lume on the rep is kind of weak. I'm not sure if the gen is AR'ed, if so, it probably just has AR on the inside. My recommendation is to get it relumed, and single sided AR on the inside. This is more important on the black dial than on the white dial.
This is a lume shot of the gen. Comparison lume shots are a bit of a pain though, so just take my word for it that the rep lume is not as good, but my guess is that if you did an relume on the rep, it'll shine brighter than the gen.
Most of the TDs will carry this. The best currently available version is the one with the trapezoidal date window, which is available from Puretimewatch and Silix-Prime.
FYI - Silix-Prime only has the version with the trapezoidal window with the black face. With a white face they are carrying the "cartel" version. Apparently, the trapezoidal window version is from H Factory.
danielv2000
Renowned Member
- 14/10/10
- 705
- 24
- 18
I am bumping this thread. I've seen new models with Superlumed come out but am wondering whether anyone has a newer model/version?