Today we tested all the popular SUBs for 904L steel

[tripdog]

I would rather look at results from independently acquired watches from members around here to be tested, not from this biased lot. Doesn’t make any sense to send some watches from this so called test without any chance of making sure we have the exact right watches to test.

I've had about enough of your whinging and whining - as well as many other people posting in this thread.

Angus is a Trusted Dealer on RWI and has been for many years , and he will no doubt continue to be a TD on RWI for many years to come - long after many of you pompous, self opinionated assholes have left the forum for good.

He is one of the few TDs to reply personally to threads and posts from members, answering their inane questions about shipping, tracking numbers, possible/imagined flaws in their QC pics etc , and he always answers with good humor and politeness.

He started this thread to inform people, I see no reason for him to be biased, but it is obvious that he's a businessman - a good businessman - and that he's here to sell watches.

If you don't like what is being posted in this thread then stop reading it, stop posting in it and read something else.

The rude, accusatory, derogatory comments being made by many people in this thread are not acceptable - you're taking this way too seriously. It's a hobby for FFS.

If you 'need/want' perfection then buy the genuine item.

If you can't appreciate this thread and the efforts Angus is making to inform you, the potential customers, then move on, find another hobby.

 

[peppercorn]

Edit...

 

[saucin]

It's sad to see people discussing the possible consipiracy of this review rather than if the maker does faulse present their product, is the conspiracy still matters if the review result is true?

If you followed this thread from the begining, I never said which factory has a full 316L until today since someone asked. If this was intended to aginest any of the makers and why didnt I reveal in the begining?

This thread was only to bring some interests to the piblic about the coming review, I originally wanted to reveal the result in the review together with all other aspects that we wanted to know about the newest subs.

I admit I am wrong isolating this single test which may make people think I am doing this on some purpose, I am only doing this as I always do - to tease you guys about my review, I did it in a wrong way. I am sorry.

Don’t take this the wrong way... but it seems you’re putting a lot the blame on the factories (ZZF, ARF, VSF, etc) when I’m sure some - if not all of them - receive parts from various suppliers and then put them together...
NOTE: I’m basing this on a statement you made that a lot of these factories have to take the word from their suppliers that if they order a 904L product.......that it’s actually 904L (aka they assume that they actually get what they order). If I’m wrong, then disregard my next few statements

The factories themselves don’t test the metal from their suppliers... and prior to this test, you - or any other TD - didn’t test the watches you purchased from the factories...

At the end of this line we have the consumer.... The consumer receives information from TD’s, the TD’s get their info from factories, and factories get info from their suppliers....so the buck stops there (hence, I think these suppliers are the ones at fault)

In my opinion if people want to blame a factory in this scenario they should also blame their TD’s - both can share the blame of not doing proper quality control tests on the products they handle as middle men. Just an interesting thought nevertheless I think transparency is important and these tests help keep the consumer aware — and might also deter suppliers from continuing any “scummy” operating practices.


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[Neo_Goku1]

Here below is a chart that shows the difference between 316L and 904L steel.



I doubt anyone would be able to tell the difference between 316 and 904 unless having both side by side and comparing them under the perfect lighting. Apparently 316L is able to corrode more easily than 904L (haven't found a source to confirm this beside Rolex stating this is why they switched). However, seeing that most people won't use their reps in water, I don't really see this as an issue (for most people).

My biggest concern regarding this, is the "lying" about using a material that's not being used. - HOWEVER, it is not clear which version of ZZF puretime used. He merely stated he used the newest version he had available and could not verify the codes on the watch so we could verify if or not the watch was indeed a V2 or V3.

When that is said, it's also important to bear in mind that these companies are all competitors - and even though they are all "friendly" towards each other, they are still competitors. In the real world of business, when a competitor does poorly your sales most likely rises. Money talks - regardless of how friendly people are.


Lastly, I have a friend in the metal industry. I talked to him about these type of steel and he did confirm what puretime stated earlier - about needing specialized equipment to make 904L due to it being much harder than 316L



I am not saying above statement is a lie. I'm not working in the steel industry and is merely replying back what my friend told me. If you compare to the chart below, the 904L has a higher grade of chromium, a lot more nickel and even copper which is not included in the 316L.


Disclaimer: I have bought the ZZF V3. However I have never owned a ZZF product before and don't see myself biased. I will however when I get the watch have it tested at my friends work place and post the results here with pictures as proof.

Your statement doesnt make complete sense as there are contradictory claims that 904L is harder yet your own evidence clearly shows the HRC is higher in 316L, which ought to be made more clear to the uninformed.

 

[Neo_Goku1]

I did a mini review of the ZZF v2.2 a while back. Here is a picture of a zzf, ARF and gen bracelet. No difference in color or weight

Top one is 316L. I can see the difference and im partially colour blind...

 

[pt98765]

Don’t take this the wrong way... but it seems you’re putting a lot the blame on the factories (ZZF, ARF, VSF, etc) when I’m sure some - if not all of them - receive parts from various suppliers and then put them together...
NOTE: I’m basing this on a statement you made that a lot of these factories have to take the word from their suppliers that if they order a 904L product.......that it’s actually 904L (aka they assume that they actually get what they order). If I’m wrong, then disregard my next few statements

The factories themselves don’t test the metal from their suppliers... and prior to this test, you - or any other TD - didn’t test the watches you purchased from the factories...

At the end of this line we have the consumer.... The consumer receives information from TD’s, the TD’s get their info from factories, and factories get info from their suppliers....so the buck stops there (hence, I think these suppliers are the ones at fault)

In my opinion if people want to blame a factory in this scenario they should also blame their TD’s - both can share the blame of not doing proper quality control tests on the products they handle as middle men. Just an interesting thought nevertheless I think transparency is important and these tests help keep the consumer aware — and might also deter suppliers from continuing any “scummy” operating practices.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk hi

What makes you think the factories don’t test the steel?

Read the entire thread...OP was invited to the ZF factory to observe this testing we’re all talking about. He didn’t do it himself.

 

[GingerBubba]

Top one is 316L. I can see a difference because im colour blind...

Well I fecking can't and I'm not colour blind!

So I fixed it for you above.

 

[Neo_Goku1]

What makes you think the factories don’t test the steel?

Read the entire thread...OP was invited to the ZF factory to observe this testing we’re all talking about. He didn’t do it himself.

And apparently that makes Angus biased LOL. Angus even stated this was just one part of the comparisons he is doing when judging which is ' the best sub'. Part of this vibe im getting is from the ZZF fanboys who sound mostly like 20 year old boys who are pissed their 500 dollar isn't ' the best fake sub' out there anymore. ZZF not even being 904L Rolex magic steel is just rubbing more salt in their wounds.

 

[Neo_Goku1]

Well I fecking can't and I'm not colour blind!

So I fixed it for you above.

You got to know what to look for I'll give a hint, its an ever so slight yellow tinge, due to the copper and other elements in 904L not present in 316L. Also check the colour of the hue reflecting off the 3 bracelets. The 316L is reflecting the lighting above with less copper saturation.

 

[2841]

You got to know what to look for I'll give a hint, its ever an so slightly yellow tinge. Due to the copper and other elements in 904L not present in 316L. Look at the hue of the light reflecting off the 3 bracelets. The 316L has less of a golden hue under lighting.

I give up. There always gonna be that one guy with the tinfoil haticard2:

 

[2841]

You got to know what to look for I'll give a hint, its ever an so slightly yellow tinge. Due to the copper and other elements in 904L not present in 316L. Look at the hue of the light reflecting off the 3 bracelets. The 316L has less of a golden hue under lighting.

I give up. There always gonna be that one guy with the tinfoil haticard:

 

[saucin]

What makes you think the factories don’t test the steel?

Read the entire thread...OP was invited to the ZF factory to observe this testing we’re all talking about. He didn’t do it himself.

Because it costs roughly $20,000 USD for a device to test the metal. In this case, ZF used a 3rd party to run the test (paid for the use of their XRF gun)... I’d assume they did so because they had a “good feeling” they could call out ZZF’s supplier for issuing 316L steel for the V3’s. This isn’t necessarily a “bad” thing, but I doubt the test would have been publicized had ZF’s supplier been the one passing 316 for 904.


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[tripdog]

In my opinion if people want to blame a factory in this scenario they should also blame their TD’s - both can share the blame of not doing proper quality control tests on the products they handle as middle men.

What absolute nonsense.

 

[GingerBubba]

You got to know what to look for I'll give a hint, its an ever so slight yellow tinge, due to the copper and other elements in 904L not present in 316L. Also check the colour of the hue reflecting off the 3 bracelets. The 316L is reflecting the lighting above with less copper saturation.

I still can't see it. It's your gammy eyes for sure!!!

 

[Tucker]

You got to know what to look for I'll give a hint, its an ever so slight yellow tinge, due to the copper and other elements in 904L not present in 316L. Also check the colour of the hue reflecting off the 3 bracelets. The 316L is reflecting the lighting above with less copper saturation.

Dude, I want to party with you.

 

[Neo_Goku1]

I give up. There always gonna be that one guy with the tinfoil haticard2:

Lol you probably one of those content guys who cant see the difference between a 300 dollar TV and a 2000 dollar either huh? Which is probably why you're into reps Me? I just cant afford gen lol

 

[tripdog]

You got to know what to look for I'll give a hint, its an ever so slight yellow tinge, due to the copper and other elements in 904L not present in 316L. Also check the colour of the hue reflecting off the 3 bracelets. The 316L is reflecting the lighting above with less copper saturation.

Actually 904 steel is a whiter, brighter steel that 316, it's difficult to see in photos, but fairly easy to see when you have the 2 types in your hand.

So it's the exact opposite of what you've posted.

What is apparent in the pic of the 3 bracelets above is the difference in finish from the brushing between 904 and 316 - it's subtle but visible.

 

[Neo_Goku1]

Actually 904 steel is a whiter, brighter steel that 316, it's difficult to see in photos, but fairly easy to see when you have the 2 types in your hand.

So it's the exact opposite of what you've posted.

What is apparent in the pic of the 3 bracelets above is the difference in finish from the brushing between 904 and 316 - it's subtle but visible.

Hmm, maybe so but theres also contradicting claims about whether 904L is harder or softer than 316L. There is way to much confusion in the air on this topic. Some saying you need special equipment to work with 904L while others state thats complete nonsense too.
I suppose you could say that brighter and whiter could be due to the golden glow too. I mean even the sun changes colour depending on the weather. Some days its bright white, others its yellow or dull orange.

 

[2841]

Hmm, maybe so but theres also contradicting claims about whether 904L is harder or softer than 316L. There is way to much confusion in the air on this topic. Some saying you need special equipment to work with 904L while others state thats complete nonsense too.

So basically your first contribution to the forum is, 5 posts where you are talking out your ass, without anything to back it up..... Great job :asshat:

 

[saucin]

What absolute nonsense.

The forum’s TD’s are great. I think you’re under the impression I’m saying something to the contrary.... I was simply using a hyperbole to explain a point.


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