This Should Be Seen Here. I Think its Important

[d4m.test]

Re: Silence is golden?

Why is it that people plead the 5th? Because they are guilty. You only plead the 5th when you don't want to present evidence that will incriminate you.

/Bump.

What do you expect them to say? Andrew tried early on at RWG to talk his way out of this and came off sounding like a pompous moron.

At this point the only acceptable response would be...

I am guilty, and I am sorry.

Yes! Something along those lines would be fine... so long as they were accompanied by a list of measures that would be taken to ensure that it does not happen again. I'd like to hear what they are doing to ensure that we are not being defrauded. The problem is that I have no faith such measures would actually be taken - they have already gone down the path of deceit - why should we trust them again? I know I wont.

 

[road rash]

Wow :!: 14 pages and still going.
I read 7 pages but only saw one pic of a B and R with a piece of shite $2 movement. Not giving a judgement one way or the other but are there more members who have confirmed the $2 movement? I must have missed it but I was not sure which dealer(s) sold that $2 movement even though Josh, Andrew, and others were mentioned.

Has anyone removed the $2 movement and sent it back with a WTF comment? any other confirmed watches with a totally bogus $2 movement other than a B & R?
Forgivve me but I need to get to about page 9 or 10 to read the Edge's recommendation so I am not completely up to speed on the "plan of action" but I will keep reading.

Sounds like I need to keep buying Pams from Davidsen :lol: :wink:

 

[andreww]

Wow :!: 14 pages and still going.
I read 7 pages but only saw one pic of a B and R with a piece of shite $2 movement. Not giving a judgement one way or the other but are there more members who have confirmed the $2 movement?

The valuation on the movement was made by ziggyzumba at RWG, the rep worlds most highly regarded watchsmith. The "$2" value, he admitted was a figure of speach. He did say that he could buy better movements for $10 with no bulk discount, so $2 probably isn't that far off the mark.

It may be a piece of shit
but its an Asian ETA piece of shit!

 

[coop]

With all the talk of banning dealers to make a point, we keep hearing how these forums are the bulk of their buisness. I find this a little hard to swallow in a global market place. How many member are there total between all 3 major forums, including those who are members on all? 10,000, maybe, this is assuming many members are registered on all three boards. How many signed up to find and buy 1 watch only to never be seen again? I would guess this is a big number, just look at the member list at all the zeros in the number of posts column. How many buy more than 1 watch a month? Not as many as would be needed to support all of these dealers, let alone the BIG 4. These numbers are very small in the greater world sense.

How many of these dealers have alias's on ebay, ioffer, ebosa, or other auction type sites? I'm not saying we cant make a difference, just that I dont think we are as big a chunk of their buisness as we may think. Lets not get to big a head on our shoulders.

 

[road rash]

Wow :!: 14 pages and still going.
I read 7 pages but only saw one pic of a B and R with a piece of shite $2 movement. Not giving a judgement one way or the other but are there more members who have confirmed the $2 movement?

The valuation on the movement was made by ziggyzumba at RWG, the rep worlds most highly regarded watchsmith. The "$2" value, he admitted was a figure of speach. He did say that he could buy better movements for $10 with no bulk discount, so $2 probably isn't that far off the mark.

It may be a piece of shit
but its an Asian ETA piece of shit!

thanks andreww :!: what dealers was it from or is it confirmed from all 4?

 

[daytona4me]

With all the talk of banning dealers to make a point, we keep hearing how these forums are the bulk of their buisness. I find this a little hard to swallow in a global market place.

Yes, they could be on some auction sites or something but if you are talking about sales from their website,, do a google search for replica watches,, ( I havent yet ) see if their site comes up before any of the forums do?

Obviously you cant search for "perfect clones" or "trusty time" and it work.. most people are looking for replica watch or rolex,, etc..

 

[jb]

A great majority of the sites that appear with Google are the sites the we all avoid, such as idealwatches.

 

[daytona4me]

A great majority of the sites that appear with Google are the sites the we all avoid, such as idealwatches.

big question that is being asked is.. on what page does their site fall on and what page does RWG, RWI, etc.. fall on.. I know on Alexia ratings,, they are far beneath the forums.

 

[RWIGWH]

I know if i was accused of lying and stealing I would want a chance to defend myself. Although in this case i think I'd have to hire a lawyer. Denny Crane of course.

 

[CISO1969]

CISO1969 wrote:
They won't respond. They are waiting for us to shoot our bolts, roll over , and go back to sleep.

CISO


Silence is a friend who will never betray.

-- Confucius

"So I got into camoflage, the girls they love to see you shoot..." -Gang of Four circa 1978-79--or at least when I first got into Punk rock and alternative

 

[d4m.test]

@Kinneyrhs

In theory this sounds like a great idea, but who is to say it is enforced? I mean all they have to do is throw up a pic of a swiss movement... doesnt mean its the one your are going to get.

Not a theory.....not an idea....I do it frequently.....and if the sent item isn't as described the buyer has complete proof by virtue of the sales post...!

 

[sub4me]

Thats a very good point TTK makes, when he posts a watch for sale there is no doubt you know what your getting his pics are large and large enough to see the most insignificant detail and to compare it to what you receive. I've never ordered from him myself as I find it much more amusing to rattle his cage (he gets so upset ) but seriously this is the way all deals should be done. Great pics of the exact product you will recieve not a stock pic and then an opps my guys shipped the wrong watch so sorry. Although I don't always (LOL) agree with TTK's ways I appericate his forthcoming honesty when it comes to sales. I think we all have alot to think about before we make that next purchase. Again I gurantee these boards are a huge source of sales for the dealers if you doubt that then your lying to yourself. Let me state thier benefits again.

No fee to advertise here and post links to their site.

Captive audience that are looking for their exact product.

Drop shipping means no preorder expense on thier part, no stocking of product, and no $$ until you pay. They simply collect the $$ from you and then order you product from their employee LOL , who is located in China who then then ships what ever he grabs off the shelf. All this comes down to is profit for answering email and lies to you that they inspected the product.

 

[coop]

Not trying to belittle our ability to make change in any way, just trying to figure out how big a piece of the pie we are.
On Joshs site there is a hit counter at the very bottom on the right side. It reads as of right now 3,734,009 since July 05, thats about 4100 hits a day. And that just Josh. If this number is accurate and you add in all the other dealers with sites, and the dealers without sites, it makes us look like a smaller piece. Some one RWG mentioned that the replica industry is WAY bigger then any of us know,
http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?sho ... 455&st=420
If this is true, the BIG 4 may not give a rats ass about these forums. It would also mean that the dealers are getting links from other places then just our forums.
Is there any way to tell just how big a ball this is?

 

[sub4me]

@coop, I hear what your saying but I can't imagine where else any bigger chunk of their business would come from besides these forums. You can search the net all day long and you'll never find these guys. Also consider this, even if they have a home town shop or some type of storefront I'm willing to bet in the far east reps aren't as big of a deal as they are to us here. So if they can't advertise openly in the market by normal means where else does business come from? It comes from places like this and our word of mouth believe me don't discount our voice (not that you were) and make no mistake their listening to every word written here their just not responding, which in of itself speaks volumes.

 

[coop]

I know they are reading all of this. I think it would be interesting to know how big the rep market is. I know that rep hand bags and clothing are HUGE, you can even find rep hand bag at pagodas in the malls here in St. louis! If you go down to the "loop" a trendy area to shop and eat, you can find rep clothing, bags and watches in almost all of the second hands stores. I guess they can get away with it by saying they bought used cheap. If Josh and Andrew are getting 8000 hits day between the two of them, I cant imagine they are all coming from the forums. Of course, who is to say they dont also run other web sites that sell the cheaper reps for more money? Its pretty easy to manage multiple sites and servers now days, their business could be more diversified then any of us know, maybe even involved in shoes, handbags, and clothing.
And you are correct sub4me, I am in no way trying to discount our voice in this. I wonder if any one out there is able to give us a REAL inside look at the rep industry?

 

[mans_7266]

@coop: don't want to be a pain, but if really he gets 4100 hits a day (these are actually page views), and you consider the average person to look at 10 pages for each session on average (it's the case for me at least), that's 410 visits a day. Therefore, I do think our collective vote counts.

 

[coop]

@manu_72: You have a good point, but since I posted the original number, the hit count has gone up over 500 hits in less than 45min. If they average only 300 hits an hour it would mean around 7200 hits a day. Which would put them on pace for WAY over my intial number. By the way, B9 has a hit counter as well, theirs is at 9,372,539 since April 05. Thats almost 260,400 hits a month, and they have not been with US that long. And would also put them way ahead of josh.


And I was'nt saying our vote wouldnt count, Just that we may not be as big a deal to them as we think.

 

[watchace]

I know they are reading all of this.

Yeah, there reading this and laughing at all of it because we are just running around in circles with no clear direction.

If the boards are not going to take the lead here then it's just everybody for themselves then isnt it?

Im a big boy, I've read the long thing and I can make my own judgement and conclusion, and I think everybody else also can too.

No need to going in circles, JMHO

 

[andreww]

Hit counters mean shit. For one, you never start your counter a zero, so zero could actually be 1, 3, or 10 million, who knows. Also, its likely counting every page, and as you know, you have to click through countless pages even if you know what you want. I'm sure he gets several hundred hits per day, maybe a couple of thousand, but most people are browsing, so that really has no correlation to sales.

They could however be on ioffer or some such site, but I have never seen their images posted there.

 

[coop]

They could have 2 different lines (kinda like toyota and lexus) they may sell the nicer stuff on one site, and the cheap crap on another. We will probably never know.
But your note about hit counters is a good one. Its a shame there not a way to find out what the real numbers are, sales or hits, or how many sites may be run by some dealers.