This Should Be Seen Here. I Think its Important

[smyrnasurfin]

I for one fully support Edge's plan of action....

I second or third.

I have never gone to the 5 star rating. When I read the dealer reviews Ruby/TTK had the same positive feedback as the 5 star dealers. They were also cheaper than the 5 star dealers. I came here because I didn't want to be scammed for a rep like I almost was and some for you were. I certainly wasn't going to let a 5 star rating persude me, I let the people who have bought from the dealers tell me.
As one forum member said in a PM when I asked a question about a so-so review on a watch, "Post a negative review around here and your the bad guy" (not exact). I will no longer feel like I must write a good review or none at all. We are here to help people get the best bang for the buck WITHOUT being ripped off.

 

[DP.DarkSide]

Wow...that is amazing...how did you get that traffic.

 

[Anubis]

Re: reply

Olivia, you misread me. your posts in both boards, they seem to imply a hidden knowledge to me. just to me. as per you're statement you know nothing on this situation. so, all is well then, this plenary knowledge on whats going on gives you the authority to tell Edge what there is or there is not a chance for. Just so we're clear.

Yeah Olivia, I've seen your posts here and RWG, What exactly do you know that gives you the certainty to make a statement like that? You want to back that statement up, please?

Not a slim chance. Edge.

It is just my opinion. [ In other words, I know nothing...nothing...nothing].We'll see in time if it is right or wrong, won't we. And who cares if you have seen my posts...here and there?

 

[caravaggio]

OK.

The threads are becoming more and more rampid on the "bad dealer" topic...

All these threads will certainly mutate the mood and create a certain point in time of anger, disgust and redefinition of terms and expectations....

But I feel we need one or two master minds, two people with strong leadership and insight, that will monitor this so that this wave of disenchantment does not get out of hand, because it can.

Yes, we have the buying power, yes we can walk the protest and hurt the dealers' wallet but we must be careful that these militant approaches do not backfire on the well menaing people who wish to keep buying reps....


Now, these watches are illegal, fakes, knockoffs.... we need to remember that this is a hardly a business and more a money making "operation".... real legitimate businesses hold business licences, follow professional business practices, some businesses answer to outside agencies for accountability and customer service (Better Business Bureau) and some even require operating ethics and mission statements: the rep "operation" is not obliged to adhere to any of the above mentions.... they ought not to because of their clandestine nature.

So, for us to expect utmost professional business conduct from shady unkown Makers and distant "unlicensed" untrained" dealers is a tad unrealistic.

Simple honesty? HHMMM...can you regulate that like we do in governments and larger retail businesses? NOPE
Simple moral conduct and integrity? WHY? They are in this sneaky illegal gig to make money, not because they love every one of us... They dont have to answer to us like we answer to our wives or parents or bosses..

Simple courtesy?? Maybe...but again, they seem to be in the advantage here because they have the watches we crave and therefore they feel they should be able to dictate how their business should be run and what terms need to be in place, not us the eager watch geeks with open wallets.

Little white lies? Sure, why not? There are very few businesses in this world that absolutely will not lie at all: most will tell a cute little white lie to boost their sales or entice you to buy their second grade junk. It happens every day, on all four corners of the world. And from my own experience, little white lies are super common in aall business areas in ASIA...it is almost part of many Asian cultures: a little white lie.

i actually believe that we are not a huge protion of those dealers' market. I am sure we are significant but does any of us truly know how vital we are to their business?

It is a good idea to speak out and unite and form some kind of coalition or front but we must do it carefully, wisely and with a foresight enough so the odds of success are on our side and not theirs.

My small two cents

 

[sub4me]

i actually believe that we are not a huge protion of those dealers' market. I am sure we are significant but does any of us truly know how vital we are to their business?

Dude, first of all get rid of that avatar its very disturbing LOL, j/k I couldn't care less but it sure is damn ugly.

I believe the boards are just about the only source for selling thier goods, like mentioned many times do a search and just try to find any of the dealers here, good luck it'll never happen, you'll find bestswiss, perfectswiss, idealwatches, and all the other BS sites. This, these sites, boards, whatever you wish to call them is a gold mine for the dealers here. Remember their here free of charge and have a captive audience to sell to who want exactly what they have to offer. Where are they gonna sell the amount of watches they do here? No where. Even if they set up a flea market shop open every weekend you think it would come even close to websites like this, believe me without theses boards theres no chance of survival. Think about it set up your site, accept email, take payment, and have product drop shipped that you don't have to buy, store, or pay for upfront trust me this is a platinum mine for these guys.

Bottom line even the most doubting Thomas can't get past the fact of that B&R, its a total rip off and insulting to every memebr here and in the long run we control the destiny of the sales here not them.

 

[olivia]

Anubis

@Anubis
Understood.
"...this plenary knowledge on whats going on gives you the authority to tell Edge what there is or there is not a chance for ".

I have no authority on this Forum. Just opinions on issues...sometimes a little experience. When it comes to these Forums doing anything to affect dealers' ethics, just call me a skeptic. I have seen issues somewhat similar come up before even on old RWG, and nothing is ever done about it. Members post their disgust at some dealer's behavior, maybe many pages of it, and it dies a slow death.
It is simply my belief that the same will happen here.
On the other hand, I don't take my replica collection too seriously. For me buying Replica watches has always been a dark area; an area where deception rules by default; where you pay your money and take your chances; nothing more. I never delude myself that any of these dealers are "trusted" in everything they say or promote.
As far as this Forum is concerned, I feel that the most it can accomplish is to create an area where "specific lies" about replica watches from specific dealers can be posted for all members to read and receive "fair warning".

 

[Chris3]

Re: Thats just it.

Chris3 -

We are mad because we didn't know they would rip us off, we trusted them, promoted them, and yet they did rip us off. The entire goal of this thread is to let other people know what the issues are so that they don't make uninformed decisions. If we sit back and don't say anything then by our inaction we are allowing the fraud to occur.

I mean - is it stupid for someone to come to this site - see Andrew/Josh listed as a 5 star dealers and then purchase from them? NO - we hold them out as five star dealers and therefore people will believe them to be until we stop supporting them. Their advertisements are on the top right hand corner of this site!

You can't possibly say it is handholding to stop supporting them! In fact, RWG seems to think that this site is affiliated with many of the underhanded dealers and that is why the admins have not taken any action on this thread.

as i was typing my response i realised your right. I didnt see how these guys were selling a shity product ( outside of one watch) they just price gouged whcih most of our power companies do every day same as our cable companies but that aside. When it was a price issue I didnt agree with the idea of banning these guys but when I realized that it was a quality (passing off crap for Swiss) I agree that they have become the scam sites that we all came here trying to avoid. I do have a hard time after all of the praise they have received and how many happy customers they have had. This is a tough call considering what they did wasnt an accident it was a deliberate plan to screw customers. I'm glad I am not the ADMIN. Personally I wont buy from them ever. I havent yet because I always seemed to find a better deal with another dealer.

 

[sub4me]

Your opinion make sense Olivia and I hear ya, but pressure from their buying public effects every decsion a dealer makes about product and honesty. A fake cheap ass movement sold as a ETA or clone ETA is a rip off period. They've been called out here and on the other boards, don't think for minute this one is going away.

 

[Anubis]

@Olivia

Skeptics are always welcomed here .

 

[Chris3]

@Chris3: Wanna buy a Bell&Ross w/swiss eta?

We want to make a statement to them not to lie to us, so the noobs, and us, dont get screwed. You would'nt watch an old lady get mugged and just sit and do nothing would you?

I totally understand what your saying and I agree. I understand how they banded together to "set" pricing so they werent cutting each others throats. Is it underhanded? Hell yeah should they be punished for it? Hell yeah. I have an issue with passing off crap as Swiss. I would say that most people here are watch fans not just rep fans and that means the Movt as well as the look and feel of the watch is whats important. Somewhere some of our dealers lost sight of that. Like I said in a another post I'm glad I dont have to make this decision. my advise is evryone buy from Stan or River or Brand9 (so far so good) I have never heard of any issues. I will say this before getting into reps I was still a watch fan and so I own quite a few Invictas and some nicer watches. When Invictas quality and customer service went to shit the Invicta Forum fealt the same way you all do. They knew the company didnt give a flying F**K about them and they suggested boycotting Invicta. What they soon realized was what a small percent of Invictas business they actually where. I'm not saying that this is the same situation especially because of the nature of business but I dont know how deeply this will impact the sellers for one and I dont know if you can actually get everyone to stop buying from them even if they werent banned outright.

 

[RWIGWH]

I think it is reasonable to ask those dealers in question to respond. If they do not then they are admitting guilt IMO. We need to hear from them on this issue and then as a collective community, mods an admin, decide what action should be taken.

 

[geo1nah2a]

cross posted to RWG...


Hello everybody,

I am the silent guy at the end of the class... Been here (rwi1 etc) for more than 3 years. Dealt with couple of people, but haven't tried the cartel yet ( )

End of intro.

Let me start by saying THANK YOU to ALL the dealers for risking their current lifestyles to provide us with better reps. I hope they made a profit out of their services. Really do, otherwise they might stop providing this service (and then we are back to canal street quality.. puke!!)

Apropos thank you to our website/fora owners/admins, for their help has been a catalyst! Knowledge is power, and communities support that equation.

And a big thank you to all the people who spoke up, knowing it might ruin their NEXT deal with one of the offenders (not only the 3cartel's..)

And after the buffer, on with the main course:

All of our dealers have at some point being less than truthful to us. And for every one complaining customer, I am sure there are 10 silent&satisfied ones. Complainers are more vocal. Not all deals will go smoothly, and when we are talking about an under the radar business, it is hard to keep up ISO standards. We should expect that, or go out buy timex@walmart. Sure, I waited Neil's sub for 1 month after paying ems, and paul delivered a 183 after 4 months (crazy sale incident). So what? Both chaps (sorry to put you in the same sentence Neil with Paul )) delivered and put some extra effort in it too. Neil replied and sent tracking number (ems-useless anyhow!) and Paul sent a free bezel for a LV-SM along with a replacement for a faulty crown for 196 i got from him. A satisfied customer here. Same goes for river and narikaa.

Have been following the cartel 3 (king is old timer for me..he seems as if he is a relative of some of the makers or something! ) and haven't decided to buy something from them. I have been interested in less mainstream reps lately and they seem focused on these. Actually they seem to be opinion leaders in this. They have come to be a representative OR shaper of the rep industry. I have no idea if they are just pretending to be, but their polls and last offerings/sneak previews are pointing to that direction. SO, a big thank you to them for that! Keep pushing them Makers! And since they have said they have personally invested in the new generation of 1:1 reps, I will take them up on their word and thank them for that too! BUT, when you are in for the profit, you should be prepared for the LOSSES too. manufacturer f@qd you on costs? Retooled without you knowing about it? If you pass this loss to your customers, be prepared to get hammered. This is what is going on. People flock this place to avoid get scammed... And by scam 90% of people mean paying for A and getting B. Hey, we might not feel cheated if you said B+ and delivered B-.

And this leads me to the next argument. ALL dealers use little white "lies", just like TOP Models use make up! And these guys are the TOP of the industry! It is up to us to read between the lines to find what we like from what is AVAILABLE and at given PRICE.

Some deal less communication in the mix, some use flattering aliases for the calibers/glasses, others use light tents to bring the best out of their offers. We have repeatedly rewarded them to do so. Who's to blame now? Hey, I have been looking at Neil's choppard 1000 gt. All these nice photos, but not one direct of the crown.. Found one in silix site and it reads something like "1000 ALI GTV "whatever. Guess I will sit out on this generation unless I get a straight shot!

What about the bell&ross.. br01. Hey, I don't care that much about the caliber in a watch advertised as a 1:1, that has ETCHED allen screws on its back. Please...This is POLEX level!!


What to do now? Read the poll, voted too, but I will propose here a more radical solution. Let customers post reviews of watches IN the offering of the dealer. And have a sticky topic in every dealer's section so that people can leave feedback. Make it a POLL while you are at it and post their grade in the front page. Let's see if this will raise the quality of services.

George

PS: What bothers me most about the cartel is price fixing AND the opportunity it creates for a single strike that will take the whole rep industry down. We need to hedge guys!

 

[CISO1969]

They won't respond. They are waiting for us to shoot our bolts, roll over , and go back to sleep.

We must act as a unified force--all three major boards-and do something that hits them where they understand it, their bottom line.

We may not hear from teh Cartel, but how about our board Admins? Tim you are the forum owner. Can you tell us what you and the others are willing or planning to do?

Will you base your actions on the wishes of your members? Will you be unified and/or discussing unified actions with the two other major replica watch boards?

Thanks,

CISO

 

[DrmMaster]

Yes,..Im waiting for contact..Im willing to talk this over..With RWG,..TRC,...whatever..And take action..If deemed needed...Im also not going to make a hasty desic either...Until...I talk with the other boards Admin..If indeed they want to..If not..We will make a unified...RWI specific Decision...

Yes..Im hear..And reading all input intently..


Tim

 

[CISO1969]

T:

Thanks! I appreciate that post and letting us know.

I may even get rid of my new silly Avatar as a result

CISO :shock: :lol:

 

[rah]

Thanks Tim

One of the joys of being the boss

I for one support you in what ever you deem responsible. After all this is your baby and we have all benifited from its existence.

Hope everything works out well for everyone.

Roger

 

[olivia]

They won't respond. They are waiting for us to shoot our bolts, roll over , and go back to sleep.

CISO

Silence is a friend who will never betray.

-- Confucius

 

[d4m.test]

Silence is golden?

Why is it that people plead the 5th? Because they are guilty. You only plead the 5th when you don't want to present evidence that will incriminate you.

/Bump.

 

[andreww]

Yes,..Im waiting for contact..Im willing to talk this over..With RWG,..TRC,...whatever..And take action..If deemed needed...Im also not going to make a hasty desic either...Until...I talk with the other boards Admin..If indeed they want to..If not..We will make a unified...RWI specific Decision...

Yes..Im hear..And reading all input intently..

Tim

Whatever you decide Tim, I hope you do what is right, and what is deserved. Andrew & Josh have done a lot in this community, and Andrew has become my most frequented dealer. Josh has helped me out in the past also. However, I cannot overlook the evidence any longer, and thus have vowed not to use their services any longer. It's not just what they have done in the past, it's their refusal to even acknowledge any wrong doings whatsoever. In fact, during the "white lies" thread, I had a conversation with Andrew where I begged him to go public, and admit that he'd made a mistake. What was his response? He lied to me again (re: eta 2892), and blamed his silence on Pug and the RWG staff. Tim, these guys have had their warnings, they've had time to make things right, yet they still practice the art of deception. I really think it would be a loss not to have these guys, but I really think that they need to take a few months off. Rules of participation must be set, and on their return, compliance must be adhered to.

Tim, I haven't always agreed with you on various issues, but one thing I do know is that you are a decent guy. Its time to show the membership that you care about their rights, and show these dealers who is the boss.

 

[andreww]

Re: Silence is golden?

Why is it that people plead the 5th? Because they are guilty. You only plead the 5th when you don't want to present evidence that will incriminate you.

/Bump.

What do you expect them to say? Andrew tried early on at RWG to talk his way out of this and came off sounding like a pompous moron.

At this point the only acceptable response would be...

I am guilty, and I am sorry.