The VSF Submariners Thread

[Reaps]

VSF 124060 Power Reserve
From fully wound and untouched til it stopped 54hrs 43mins 41sec
Not bad but quite a way off 72hrs.

Just thought this may be of interest to some?.

Pretty normal tbh. Swap the mainspring to gen and you'll probably get a better PR. Also might be the movement is under oiled causing a higher drain on PR.

 

[Jackster]

Pretty normal tbh. Swap the mainspring to gen and you'll probably get a better PR. Also might be the movement is under oiled causing a higher drain on PR.

So may I ask what your thoughts are on servicing…. My VSF is functioning very well ootb, looks good on the timegrapher, everything as it should be. So, obviously it costs money to service a movement and unfortunately I do not know of a rep friendly watchsmith here in Australia so tbh it’s just easier not to service. Of course one day it’s going to need it and I suppose I’ll deal with that when it happens. But in your opinion would you wait or not? If as you say the movement is under oiled is this going to cause unnecessary wear on the pinions etc or does it just literally make it work harder due to friction? I’ve just had my Gen serviced and that was $1100 including a new rotor axel, that price is obviously too much for a rep Service. And as for Gen parts how easily are they to come by when needed? Thanks!

 

[Turbo1]

I think it's okay to have an original watch, regardless of the manufacturer, waited over the years. With a replica, I would consider this twice because of the costs between service and new purchase.

 

[frankdux1987]

I don't know if this has been discussed but the problem I see with VSF is the case milling on the back where the SEL's fit in. There are what appear to be CNC pilot holes visible in the corners, which is from over travel of the milling bit. And when this occurs there is usually a big gap from the back of the SEL to the case. Sometimes it's in all four corners, sometimes one, two, three corners. To me this is unacceptable considering cheap Canal St subs don't even have this issue. I have a VSF 126610LN on order with one of our TD's and I'm rejecting QC pics because of this. It's case by case, no pun intended, so eventually one will be good, but I'm really surprised they don't fix this issue for all production.

Once you see it you can't unsee it. Perfect example of this:

I got my qc pics yesterday i was debating red lighting it because of this too. Mine look really bad compared to this

 

[mt666tm]

I got my qc pics yesterday i was debating red lighting it because of this too. Mine look really bad compared to this

Ya, it's pretty bad in my opinion, and you've got a big SEL gap visible there too. You can see where the shape of the milling bit travels outside the edge at the very end of its path, like it just walked a bit too far and you can see the round shape of the bit protruding into the case, and even if you got the SEL perfectly flush to the edges the problem would still be visible because it goes past the curout shape of the SEL.

I've really only seen VSF with this issue, and theoretically it could be an easy fix by editing the program used to handle this part of the mfg process to tighten it up.

I just rejected another QC myself, and I will be switching to a Clean instead, F it.

 

[Jackster]

My recently acquired VSF no date sub does not have this issue…. just info….

 

[Mikie C]

For the quality and price of these. I’m not worried about it at all.

 

[asusundevils1971]

it could be an easy fix by editing the program used to handle this part of the mfg process to tighten it up.

In a perfect world where there is actually QC with tight tolerances in the factory making the case it would be an easy fix. The people running the CNC mills would and should have to know how to change the X and Y axis + or - in the program.

There is also a few factors involved like do they cycle the machines to warm them up at the start of the day, how many parts do they run off before changing the end mills, do they edit the program, and what rpm, cutting speed are they running the tools because 904 stainless is kind of hard lol and tools wear down quickly.

At the end of the day we are getting indistinguishable $500 reps of a $13K Submariner that no one will ever notice that there is a gap where the end mill travelled 2mm to far. And they are not looking at pics that are magnified 20, 30 or 50 X like we receive from the TD's to over analyze with a fine tooth comb.

Enjoy the watch for what it is and even the gens have their flaws

 

[mt666tm]

Agreed with the above and there are lots of flaws I'm happy to live with, like how my gen sub has a subtle ripple in the dial at the hand stack, but not lazy ones that could be easily fixed. We all have our OCD quirks in regard to what we are ok with, and those holes would just drive me nuts and I think it's less than 1mm

If you could see how I mod my vintage subs I took apart my 5513 a few times to make a custom dial spacer to increase the hour hand to dial spacing by a literal human hair. I'm on the spectrum.

I still plan on picking up a VSF 126610 as I really want one, but I will get one in the sales forums as I just have to wait for someone that got a good one to decide to part with it, and luck to be the one to get it.

If those holes don't bug you then green light and enjoy!

 

[0ffcamber]

Finding the smallest of flaws is one of the things this community does best.
I’m amazed at what y’all notice and critique.
It pushes the TD’s and then the factories to be better.

 

[makoberry]

Finding the smallest of flaws is one of the things this community does best.
I’m amazed at what y’all notice and critique.
It pushes the TD’s and then the factories to be better.

Even though pointing out the flaws is important, I would like to see more focus on quality. Better bracelets, better polishing and ideally movements that are properly oiled and cleaned. Glidelock is still a problem area and even the best reps have sharp edges.

 

[0ffcamber]

Even though pointing out the flaws is important, I would like to see more focus on quality. Better bracelets, better polishing and ideally movements that are properly oiled and cleaned. Glidelock is still a problem area and even the best reps have sharp edges.

Absolutely.
I think everything you mentioned is in the flaws family. Slight tweaks and better quality control would be that extra step in a better overall product and experience.
Lubrication seems to be overlooked and I don’t know why. Maybe it’s just the factories rush to build and release their products.

 

[Kalmine64]

Just got mine today. I am absolutely amazed by the overall quality...

 

[Zeta7]

Yeah the rep game is going for a factory that has flaws that you can live with. Every factory has some flaws, vfs has wonky dial text most of the time but has the best clone rolex movement and the best crystal on the market (as far as I know) so no foggy/milky crystal here. Clean factory usually has the better dial but a worse movement (visually compared to Gen movement) and worse crystal.

I recently chose to purchase a clean 40mm sub over a vsf because the clean 40mm subs have better Dandong 3135 movements than the vsf Dandong 3135. For about the past year Clean has been using Dandong 3135 movements in their 40mm subs. I found a comparison of the clean vsf and Gen 3135 and cleans movement is closer to Gen with better engraving and a few of the parts are closer to Gen also. It’s a crazy time in the rep world and things are constantly changing. I was hesitant about the crystal but even the crystal on the 40mm are good. Moral of the story is that if you’re buying a 40mm check out the comparison and make your best decision. Don’t go by what people say who are making generalizations based on outdated information. Just saying

 

[Endez]

I recently chose to purchase a clean 40mm sub over a vsf because the clean 40mm subs have better Dandong 3135 movements than the vsf Dandong 3135. For about the past year Clean has been using Dandong 3135 movements in their 40mm subs. I found a comparison of the clean vsf and Gen 3135 and cleans movement is closer to Gen with better engraving and a few of the parts are closer to Gen also. It’s a crazy time in the rep world and things are constantly changing. I was hesitant about the crystal but even the crystal on the 40mm are good. Moral of the story is that if you’re buying a 40mm check out the comparison and make your best decision. Don’t go by what people say who are making generalizations based on outdated information. Just saying

Don’t get it

You are saying that few years back, Clean was better than VSF and now is the opposite? As said earlier, both have pros and cons, and I am sure that a sub from any of these factory is a great watch with awesome quality for the Price you paid.

To be honest I bought 2 vsf because more than 50% (of what I read) was saying that VSF is better. Now I am curious to order a Clean just to see difference, and I am sure if I have both in front of me I won’t be able to say which is which

 

[Zeta7]

So may I ask what your thoughts are on servicing…. My VSF is functioning very well ootb, looks good on the timegrapher, everything as it should be. So, obviously it costs money to service a movement and unfortunately I do not know of a rep friendly watchsmith here in Australia so tbh it’s just easier not to service. Of course one day it’s going to need it and I suppose I’ll deal with that when it happens. But in your opinion would you wait or not? If as you say the movement is under oiled is this going to cause unnecessary wear on the pinions etc or does it just literally make it work harder due to friction? I’ve just had my Gen serviced and that was $1100 including a new rotor axel, that price is obviously too much for a rep Service. And as for Gen parts how easily are they to come by when needed? Thanks!

You can buy a new vsf sub for like $400. I paid $300 plus another $50-$60 in shipping to have it serviced. If you’re not going to have the movement modified I’d suggest you wear it until it stops working and sell it. You can sell parts off it and recoup a good chunk of your money back and put it towards a new one. Just my humble opinion

 

[Zeta7]

Don’t get it

You are saying that few years back, Clean was better than VSF and now is the opposite? As said earlier, both have pros and cons, and I am sure that a sub from any of these factory is a great watch with awesome quality for the Price you paid.

To be honest I bought 2 vsf because more than 50% (of what I read) was saying that VSF is better. Now I am curious to order a Clean just to see difference, and I am sure if I have both in front of me I won’t be able to say which is which

What I’m saying is Clean is using vs movements in their 40mm subs that are better than the vs movements in the vsf 40mm subs.

 

[Endez]

What I’m saying is Clean is using vs movements in their 40mm subs that are better than the vs movements in the vsf 40mm subs.

I am not a watch expert, but most people sais the opposite…

 

[Zeta7]

I am not a watch expert, but most people sais the opposite…

I think you still don’t understand what I’m trying to say. Clean 40mm subs have the exact same movement as VSF 40mm subs. They’re both using Dandong 3135 movements.

 

[Endez]

I think you still don’t understand what I’m trying to say. Clean 40mm subs have the exact same movement as VSF 40mm subs. They’re both using Dandong 3135 movements.

Now it is clear, thank you