The 1016: The Under Appreciated Thread

[Karbon74]

10W for metal, but we're only talking about the paint. And for Stainless Steel, I believe you'd need more than 10W. I remember reading that 40W was where the real fun begins with steel, which is a lot more expensive.

Yes, exactly. And having the lower power laser means it wouldn't actually have enough power to affect the metal.

So it would more or less be identical to a waterslide decal dial as far as having black pigment and exposed brass gilt. So whichever method gives a cleaner, neater, more detailed "edge" would be better.

TBH, it's potentially a better result than the original gen dials, which I believe were pad printed with ink.

A little bit of a tangent, but I'm now experimenting with white printing, rather than gold gilt dials. I tried using white waterslide decal paper, but the white wasn't bold enough (the paper is a little bit transparent, so the brass underneath kind of undermines the effect). So far, high gloss white paint under the decal (directly on the dial) looks pretty good, I'm going to slightly tweak the reproduction size of the dials to make the font a little bigger so the white "pops" more.

I hate myself for even saying this, but I'm really seriously considering buying a gen 1016 or similar to compare to, lol...which kind of defeats the purpose of chasing a rep, but now I'm kind of determined to see this through...it's like marrying a beautiful actress or supermodel, just so I can raise the quality of the hookers I cheat with...lol

You can only do so much creating something at home, then scouring the internet to find photos for reference. Think how convenient it would be to have the real deal on hand, to compare from identical angles, in identical light, under identical magnification.

Yes, this is a sickness, lol.

if you get a gen 1016 for a reasonable price, even in a poor state, you will get enough reference. And you can still sell it after having taken pics to the macro details

The thing though with the 1016, it's not just the dials that have varied. Even the font, spacing and placement of the case engravings have.

Maybe as I get more into it, I will pursue the finer period correct details. At this point, I am content with a nice solid watch with no glaring flaws (eg no serials at all)

 

[Karbon74]

I left the direct case engraving option aside. But 3W is more than enough to cut the vinyl mask for the saltwater etchings.

I am waiting for you @dpd3672 to close the sheet print option. If you drop it, then I will probably by the laser. I can already think of quite a lot of usage for it

 

[316lad]

I was thinking you can laser engrave the black areas of the dial and leave the brass exposed, but I like your idea better where the dial is painted black and then laser burns off the paint to expose the gilt

Quite honestly there's enough great high res pics online that could be used as reference in the design stages of the laser files.
I imagine that one would have to build some 'blurring' and 'randomosity' in to the artwork in order to fully capture the essence of the originals.
A bit like early music recording when drum machines and sequensers came along. They were 'too good' and made the music sound artificial. The process was called Quantising. We still use Quantising today but it has randomosity built in so that it sounds "real".
Should do the same with the artwork and laser files.

 

[316lad]

The original gilt dial process was;

Take brass blank.
Pad print clear varnish chapter-ring, numerals, indices and wordage. (anything you wanted gilt)
Electro-plate black paint over non-varnished areas (e.g. rest of dial as said black paint would not adhere to varnished bits)
Remove varnish to reveal brass.

I think that's how they did it

The laser engraving process would just remove the necessesity of the varnish stage, cutting through a completely black dial.

I really like the idea of doing this.

 

[dpd3672]

The original gilt dial process was;

Take brass blank.
Pad print clear varnish chapter-ring, numerals, indices and wordage. (anything you wanted gilt)
Electro-plate black paint over non-varnished areas (e.g. rest of dial as said black paint would not adhere to varnished bits)
Remove varnish to reveal brass.

I think that's how they did it

The laser engraving process would just remove the necessesity of the varnish stage, cutting through a completely black dial.

I really like the idea of doing this.

Just ordered another 3d Printer, so I can have a dedicated laser engraver...switching back and forth is kind of a cumbersome process. These things are so cheap now, lol. First one was on Black Friday, ~$150. This one (older model, refurbished, but it will only be the base for the laser engraving module, the 3D parts won't be used) was $60 shipped!


Initial results look pretty damn good, though, and looking for a way to engrave directly onto the cases, rather than using saltwater etching.

Possibly a combination fo both, where the laser cuts the initial outline, and the saltwater etching defines it and makes it deeper.

 

[Karbon74]

I wonder if you can do multiple passes of the laser while the case is in position. each time adding a 0.1mm depth

 

[dpd3672]

I wonder if you can do multiple passes of the laser while the case is in position. each time adding a 0.1mm depth

I believe so, but with the curved surface, I'm concerned that it would just be magnifying error.
The laser has a very shallow depth of field. Any distance more or less than that gives a wider, less defined beam. So instead of a "laser" sharp line, it would have some blur, which repeated over multiple passes might exaggerate the effect.

Not the end of the world, just another obstacle to solve. Part of the fun.

 

[Karbon74]

how did the gens get engraved? Stamp? CNC?

 

[dpd3672]

It looks stamped to me. I know that's how they did guns in the 1930s-1960s.

 

[316lad]

how did the gens get engraved? Stamp? CNC?

Stamp via a machine similar to a straight-line lathe.
So I'm led to understand from the master who is a member of this forum.

 

[Karbon74]

guys,

I think I found the magic answer on youtube

The AliX laser can be put on feet. So, put the case in a vise clamp. Vinyl glued direct between the lugs.

then saltwater etching

 

[1016 lover]

Pentograph is the tool to use for case engraving watch cases

If you want someone done right... (Engraving content)

I've been looking at my options for lug and caseback engraving. After considering everything I decided to develop my own capability to do it. I first looked at fiber lasers. It's the easiest option and they can engrave steel. The issue is that the engraving is dark and superficial. I then...

forum.replica-watch.info

 

[Joshuwa]

Hi everyone
Been talking to Raffles regarding my first 1016 build
Have been told to get this acrylic crystal case, but remember reading here that raffles offer 2 different types of crowns, a smaller and a larger one
Which one would be the best to ask for? (Looking to build it around the tiffany dial if that makes any difference)
Thank you all <3

 

[369mafia]

Hi everyone
Been talking to Raffles regarding my first 1016 build
Have been told to get this acrylic crystal case, but remember reading here that raffles offer 2 different types of crowns, a smaller and a larger one
Which one would be the best to ask for? (Looking to build it around the tiffany dial if that makes any difference)
Thank you all <3

You want the narrow rolex crown. He will know what you mean.
The acrylic case is cool however the crystal is glued into the case set so if you every need to change the crystal its a bit of work , We often buy his sapphire glass case set and swap the crystal to a T21 clarks and a 1016l bezel .

best of luck with your build. Report back with progress or have questions.

 

[Joshuwa]

You want the narrow rolex crown. He will know what you mean.
The acrylic case is cool however the crystal is glued into the case set so if you every need to change the crystal its a bit of work , We often buy his sapphire glass case set and swap the crystal to a T21 clarks and a 1016l bezel .

best of luck with your build. Report back with progress or have questions.

Ah awesome, thank you <3

After reading this I think I will go with the sapphire over the acrylic then, thank you.

I am just curious, how good is the raffles build (case, dial, hands) with a nh38 inside it?

Thanks 369 <3

 

[316lad]

Pentograph is the tool to use for case engraving watch cases

If you want someone done right... (Engraving content)

I've been looking at my options for lug and caseback engraving. After considering everything I decided to develop my own capability to do it. I first looked at fiber lasers. It's the easiest option and they can engrave steel. The issue is that the engraving is dark and superficial. I then...

forum.replica-watch.info

That's it. I can never remember that name.
One of our members here: newsest dude on the block has one.
Here's how they operate:

 

[Karbon74]

 

[Karbon74]

shot captured from C24...
Nice tropical fade

 

[1016_idiot_savant]

Such versatile, much Explorer....

 

[automatico]

"I am still using cheapo 5€ set AliX hand pressers, and I am starting to feel that they are holding me back. When I press the hands, I always struggle to get them level at first try.

Is this just related to the way hand presses are? or is there a qualitative leap in using higher grade? I am hesitating between a Augusta set for 30€ or a Bergeon/Horotec set...Obviously there is a 2.5x difference."

On some watches (mostly quartz character watches etc), I use a pencil type hand pusher...a thin, round metal handle with plastic tips in the ends. They are easy to make a mistake with though...the tool can slip off the hand, hitting the dial etc. It requires no setup, just press the hand on and go.
Here is a set on eBay, item number 355273214263

If the hand installation takes a bit more care, I use a Horotec hand press. Here is a similar generic no name press on eBay, item number 386427115290.
It works Ok most of the time, but you do not have a lot of feel for how much force you are applying to the hand, making it easy to push the hand down too far. Very little setup time, just select the correct pusher and go.

When mounting hands has to be exact (GMT hand very close to hour hand etc), I use an old Seitz jeweling press with micrometer depth adjustment similar to this one on eBay, item number 225650554144
Here is a new lower priced generic tool of the same type on eBay, item number 186000185341
I takes a bit of setup time to find the correct pusher tip (I use the tips from the Horotec press), and the micro adjustment also takes a little time.
Since it is a high precision tool designed to install jewels to the exact depth in plates etc, hand installation will be precise.

Most of the time, I use a piece of plastic wrap or something similar between the tool tip and hand to prevent scratching the hands.
On sweep second hands, a tool with a guide (Horotec type etc) can help prevent bending the hand because the pusher tip will not jump off the hand. I use a small flat end tip without a hole in it.

Second hands can be a real pain because of the very small hole sizes and delicate center wheel post. Many second hand tubes require fitting to the center wheel post and this is no fun at all. Squeezing the tube down a hair is easier than opening it up though because a broach small enough to go into a little bitty tube is very fragile and can break off in the tube. I make cheapo broaches out of small sewing needles by grinding three or four flats on the needle tip and use a lathe collet mounted in a lathe tightened down with the drawbar to squeeze tubes down. They can also be tightened using a three jaw pin vise.

I've seen more than a few 'watch botchers' tighten SS hand tubes with fingernail clippers. I plead guilty to that too. Ha!

All typos are free.