Rolex Milsub 5513/5517 info

[tripdog]

That is what I hear but why exactly? I hear case not good but what does that mean? Is it the shape of the case or the way the parts fit together? Does the back not screw on correctly or the crystal falls out kind of thing? I saw one poster say his dial had "Oyster Perpetual Date" instead of "Oyster Perpetual". That would be a deal breaker but if the dial and hands are as pictured would be a quick fix to drop it into a different case like from a 5513 for example and reuse the full minute track bezel.

Thoughts?

I think that these newer version vintage subs are pretty good value for money, and are a good base for working on. When I said 'I wouldn't buy one' I meant that with this model your pretty far away from the gen in terms of appearance, which means spending money getting it looking right, (contrary to the others 5513, 1680, which are not too bad out of the box - if your not too detail obsessed...)
The insert doesn't look very good - big thick heavily printed numbers. The case shape will be wrong, the solid spring bars won't be fixed - coz it's on a bracelet....The hands look OK but the dial is ugly and will need to be changed....case back probably doesn't have the engravings - it's basically a 5512 with a slightly different dial - the're all using the same case - although they may have started putting the correct model numbers between the lugs.....
I know that you were disappointed with the quality of the bezel assembly on another one of these Cartel subs, which means details are important to you - there's nothing wrong with this 5517 as a base - but it' going to need some work to getting it looking OK.

 

[POTUS]

I think that these newer version vintage subs are pretty good value for money, and are a good base for working on. When I said 'I wouldn't buy one' I meant that with this model your pretty far away from the gen in terms of appearance, which means spending money getting it looking right, (contrary to the others 5513, 1680, which are not too bad out of the box - if your not too detail obsessed...)
The insert doesn't look very good - big thick heavily printed numbers. The case shape will be wrong, the solid spring bars won't be fixed - coz it's on a bracelet....The hands look OK but the dial is ugly and will need to be changed....case back probably doesn't have the engravings - it's basically a 5512 with a slightly different dial - the're all using the same case - although they may have started putting the correct model numbers between the lugs.....
I know that you were disappointed with the quality of the bezel assembly on another one of these Cartel subs, which means details are important to you - there's nothing wrong with this 5517 as a base - but it' going to need some work to getting it looking OK.

Ok, thanks for that. As far as not being happy with the bezel on the 1680, well I've come around. LOL. After spending $150 on the WSO bezel and seeing how crappy that one is I realize that the one that came on the watch ain't so bad at all and I was able to bend the ring just enough to get it from moving too much. The bezel construction of the WSO is so completely wrong it can't even function at all. Don't know how a Gen bezel assembly compares but I'm not dishing out the $$ to find out so as of now I'm happy with it. Just need to source a crystal as the cyclops on these is horrible and I kind of cracked mine removing it so much sooo. Still have not bought the one you recommend but will probably end up there. Price is high and shipping will take a while since it's in another country. Tried a different one on ebay for $12 so will report back on that one when it gets here. Wondering if Gen would fit or not for the crystal.

 

[tripdog]

Ok, thanks for that. As far as not being happy with the bezel on the 1680, well I've come around. LOL. After spending $150 on the WSO bezel and seeing how crappy that one is I realize that the one that came on the watch ain't so bad at all and I was able to bend the ring just enough to get it from moving too much. The bezel construction of the WSO is so completely wrong it can't even function at all. Don't know how a Gen bezel assembly compares but I'm not dishing out the $$ to find out so as of now I'm happy with it. Just need to source a crystal as the cyclops on these is horrible and I kind of cracked mine removing it so much sooo. Still have not bought the one you recommend but will probably end up there. Price is high and shipping will take a while since it's in another country. Tried a different one on ebay for $12 so will report back on that one when it gets here. Wondering if Gen would fit or not for the crystal.

Gen will fit, but your looking at $150...

 

[tripdog]

Ok, thanks for that. As far as not being happy with the bezel on the 1680, well I've come around. LOL. After spending $150 on the WSO bezel and seeing how crappy that one is I realize that the one that came on the watch ain't so bad at all and I was able to bend the ring just enough to get it from moving too much. The bezel construction of the WSO is so completely wrong it can't even function at all. Don't know how a Gen bezel assembly compares but I'm not dishing out the $$ to find out so as of now I'm happy with it. Just need to source a crystal as the cyclops on these is horrible and I kind of cracked mine removing it so much sooo. Still have not bought the one you recommend but will probably end up there. Price is high and shipping will take a while since it's in another country. Tried a different one on ebay for $12 so will report back on that one when it gets here. Wondering if Gen would fit or not for the crystal.

Did you return that WSO bezel assembly? - did he kick up a fuss ?

 

[POTUS]

Did you return that WSO bezel assembly? - did he kick up a fuss ?

He accepted the return but did not provide a shipping label so I'm waiting on that. He has to provide that or Ebay will just refund me so I don't know what he's waiting on. He told me to just send it back and put a note in there for them to refund $3.50. LOL. Not how it works. It's not the money, it's the tracking. When he provides a shipping label through ebay it's autotracked and I can just drop it in my mailbox. With his way its all manual and I have to go to the post office. I told him I don't go there. I'm too upper class. HAHA. Besides the Secret Service won't let me.

 

[T3RM1N4T0R]

Why am I not surprised [MENTION=129981]POTUS[/MENTION] isn't happy with the WSO bezel assembly? I am fairly certain the $12 crystal from ebay isn't going please you at all and seriously you are waiting on a shipping label cause you can't be bothered to go to the post office. Why not just spend $3.50 on usps website and print a label yourself that will have tracking. Now I dont knownhow ebay returns work since ive never felt the need to send something back so maybe the package cant be sendback unless he provides a label but tha seems stupid.

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[POTUS]

Why am I not surprised @POTUS isn't happy with the WSO bezel assembly? I am fairly certain the $12 crystal from ebay isn't going please you at all and seriously you are waiting on a shipping label cause you can't be bothered to go to the post office. Why not just spend $3.50 on usps website and print a label yourself that will have tracking. Now I dont knownhow ebay returns work since ive never felt the need to send something back so maybe the package cant be sendback unless he provides a label but tha seems stupid.

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xj4sonx lives to follow me around RWI and make me look bad for not accepting defective watches and crap parts that don't fit. LOL.

 

[T3RM1N4T0R]

xj4sonx lives to follow me around RWI and make me look bad for not accepting defective watches and crap parts that don't fit. LOL.

No he is just a mod that follows all posts and sees patterns.

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[POTUS]

No he is just a mod that follows all posts and sees patterns.

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I can't believe you are a mod with your behavior. Your post in this thread is not productive, helpful or wanted. You have a habit of looking for people that are not satisfied on this forum and thread crapping them and accusing them of being a problem and frankly I'm surprised its being allowed to continue. Your Avatar is fitting as that is what you go around doing. Bashing.

 

[J!m1]

Ok, thanks for that. As far as not being happy with the bezel on the 1680, well I've come around. LOL. After spending $150 on the WSO bezel and seeing how crappy that one is I realize that the one that came on the watch ain't so bad at all and I was able to bend the ring just enough to get it from moving too much. The bezel construction of the WSO is so completely wrong it can't even function at all. Don't know how a Gen bezel assembly compares but I'm not dishing out the $$ to find out so as of now I'm happy with it. Just need to source a crystal as the cyclops on these is horrible and I kind of cracked mine removing it so much sooo. Still have not bought the one you recommend but will probably end up there. Price is high and shipping will take a while since it's in another country. Tried a different one on ebay for $12 so will report back on that one when it gets here. Wondering if Gen would fit or not for the crystal.

Ummm... I use WO990 bezel assemblies all the time. The construction is exactly the same as gen (I have a gen 1680 and 9411 to compare to). The tolerances are not as tight as Rolex. Therefore, it is sometimes required to polish the edges of the crystal retainer or mix parts from several assemblies to get one that is neither too tight nor too loose. Note it should require downward pressure to turn. My 9411 is perfect as it has almost zero wear; whereas the 1680 is very worn and spins much more easily.

What needs to be understood is not just that you can buy so-and-so parts, slap it together and it's great. It may look great but I strive for making a watch that replicates the ownership experience of a gen. That requires not only knowledge of the "best" parts to use, but also how they are supposed to fit and function.

 

[T3RM1N4T0R]

I can't believe you are a mod with your behavior. Your post in this thread is not productive, helpful or wanted. You have a habit of looking for people that are not satisfied on this forum and thread crapping them and accusing them of being a problem and frankly I'm surprised its being allowed to continue. Your Avatar is fitting as that is what you go around doing. Bashing.

Thread crapping? Hardly. Have I made some jabs at ya about you being unhappy with almost every purchase you've made in the rep world? Yes I have. I've asked you questions and you didn't answer here or your other thread. And I was serious why can't you create a shipping label from home and send your crap WSO bezel assembly back? Is it against the rules of eBay? (Seriously it not allowed) I do wish you luck in this hobby, we are all cut from a different cloth and you have expectations that far exceed mine. I told you on your qc thread that I agreed with you on the Omega and I do, the "x" in rolex on the sub we don't agree on but again not my watch. Glad you have found a TD you are happy with in Sead. I hope you future endeavors are not as negative as your prior ones. :xj4:

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[POTUS]

Ummm... I use WO990 bezel assemblies all the time. The construction is exactly the same as gen (I have a gen 1680 and 9411 to compare to). The tolerances are not as tight as Rolex. Therefore, it is sometimes required to polish the edges of the crystal retainer or mix parts from several assemblies to get one that is neither too tight nor too loose. Note it should require downward pressure to turn. My 9411 is perfect as it has almost zero wear; whereas the 1680 is very worn and spins much more easily.

What needs to be understood is not just that you can buy so-and-so parts, slap it together and it's great. It may look great but I strive for making a watch that replicates the ownership experience of a gen. That requires not only knowledge of the "best" parts to use, but also how they are supposed to fit and function.

I bought the $150 assembly from WSO. Came with all 4 bezel parts. I also bought 2 crystals, one with cyclops and one dome.

Now, with the current assembly that came with the watch the domed crystal is too big on the inside and just falls off. The cyclops one fits but the retainer ring slides off and won't stay on. That one works with the WSO retainer ring though. So that was step one.

Now that I have on the cyclops crystal and WSO retainer ring I try to put the bezel and ring on and when pressed on it won't budge. Not at all. So I remove the bezel and retainer ring and look at it and see the problem.

First of all the WSO bezel is much thinner than the stock cartel bezel. Very thin. Also the bezel teeth are smooth and hard to grip on the WSO bezel. Not so on the Cartel bezel which has good teeth cutouts and grip. Secondly the retainer ring on the cartel has a step on the edge where the bezel clicks into, the WSO has no such step. For the WSO bezel to stay on it has to snap BELOW the bezel ring as it is curved up a tad. No amount of sanding will fix that. If you sand that down so it turns the bezel won't stay on. It's all or nothing lip that fits into the bezel via pressure, there is no lip like on the cartel. See on the cartel once you push it in passed the step it snaps in and then there is free play to turn. The WSO bezel has no second stage. It's just forced in there so sanding or polishing it down will allow it to turn but it won't stay on after that. Also, since the bezel sits lower around the retainer once you snap it on it touches the watch so there is NO WAY it will work in any way.

Now Maybe I got a defective one. That's possible. But from what I have in front of me its highly inferior to the cartel bezel. The only thing the WSO bezel assembly has going for it is that the insert snaps in nicely and does not require glue.

So in the end, I could not use the bezel or the crystals as none will fit without the other and I'm not gluing anything so if the choice is between glue and keeping what I got with some problems, keeping what I got.

 

[tepekei]

There is an in-depth examination by Blackdog over on Homageforum regarding the functioning of the bezel assembly. It examines the WSO and Watchman408 bezel assemblies, combinations of their parts, fitting to a HR case and so forth. Not sure if it's allowed to link directly to another forum here, but the title is "how does the vintage friction bezel work..."

Consensus seems to be to buy the watchman version and polish it.

 

[tripdog]

There is an in-depth examination by Blackdog over on Homageforum regarding the functioning of the bezel assembly. It examines the WSO and Watchman408 bezel assemblies, combinations of their parts, fitting to a HR case and so forth. Not sure if it's allowed to link directly to another forum here, but the title is "how does the vintage friction bezel work..."

Consensus seems to be to buy the watchman version and polish it.

I have bought from Watchman, and confirm that his stuff seems to be of a superior quality.

Put up the link - should be an interesting read....

Well I'm a big boy now, so I decided to do it myself....

http://www.homageforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=29222

 

[POTUS]

There is an in-depth examination by Blackdog over on Homageforum regarding the functioning of the bezel assembly. It examines the WSO and Watchman408 bezel assemblies, combinations of their parts, fitting to a HR case and so forth. Not sure if it's allowed to link directly to another forum here, but the title is "how does the vintage friction bezel work..."

Consensus seems to be to buy the watchman version and polish it.

I could only read page 2 via google cache, don't know why it's asking me to login for that thread but from what I have read it's basically saying the same thing I said so I don't know how others are using them "all the time" and not noticing that they don't work. There does seem to be some stuff about his old bezels working but the new ones don't so maybe that is why but this one, especially for the huge price is a not a good buy.

 

[J!m1]

I'm going to read the link now. As I mentioned, it may be required to swap parts from WO990 to get the right function.
as to appearance, WO990 looks like a vintage piece.

 

[tripdog]

I could only read page 2 via google cache, don't know why it's asking me to login for that thread but from what I have read it's basically saying the same thing I said so I don't know how others are using them "all the time" and not noticing that they don't work. There does seem to be some stuff about his old bezels working but the new ones don't so maybe that is why but this one, especially for the huge price is a not a good buy.

Basically said WSO don't, won't work - bad design. Get Watchman bezel and polish teeth of bezel, cheaper than WSO & works as per gen.
I bought one of these a few years ago - good quality, just need to be polished.

If you're not a member you won't be able to the thread - it's a private forum. :smile:

 

[tepekei]

I am going to try the Watchman too, maybe in a month or two... gonna roll with the stock Cartel for a while and try not to buy parts on credit. :whistling:

 

[tripdog]

I am going to try the Watchman too, maybe in a month or two... gonna roll with the stock Cartel for a while and try not to buy parts on credit. :whistling:

Stock Cartel bezel is OK.

 

[tepekei]

Yep it looks pretty good. I'm curious how dimensionally accurate it is but it looks ok and it works ok too. After 40 years a bezel wouldn't function like brand new.

Stock Cartel bezel is OK.