[RESOLVED]Enough is enough. I want my money back.

[polaris]

Bk is an intermediary, sheet, if George has a delay sfa BK can do. It's well know SD has been going on and on and on...

From the sounds of it dealer is short of capital to purchase the rest of the parts necessary to fulfil orders. Lack of liquidty has done companies big and small in. Lack of communication doesn't help.

RE: wat44
people get on to these pre-orders because there are huge savings to be had. ie WM9 LV sub was $395 pre-order and $575(?) retail
TT sub $475 pre-order and $775 retail

 

[wat44]

ok, but losing $1000 is the opposite of huge savings

 

[guanaco]

ok, but losing $1000 is the opposite of huge savings

Who says he's lost the $1,000?

 

[wat44]

who said he made huge savings?

BTW, Ive been sold so many pups in my life... I get to know the smell of a pup

I hope for the OP that Im wrong

 

[guanaco]

BTW, Ive been sold so many pups in my life... I get to know the smell of a pup

and this means?

 

[wat44]

to be sold a pup is to be dudded on a transaction

by the way - I doubt the dealer is at fault - but that may be of no comfort to someone who has been dudded {IF they are dudded - Im not saying anyone has been dudded} I just said I dont understand the risk should all be on the buyer when the seller has SO much upside

p.s. google result: http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/be+sold+a+pup

 

[guanaco]

First time I've heard that about "to be sold a pup", it's good to know. Anyways, I hope this gets resolved quickly, I'm sure BK will refund him at his request as soon as he finds out what's going on.

 

[pcsam]

Well, this LegendofSpeed guy with 8 posts (even less than 9) in only 028 minutes, see how he defends the dealer. He calls himself TRIAD (Triad as 3, he is obviously one + the twins are two 1+2=3, right?) LEADER ("leader" is the anagram of "dealer", whom do you think you can fool?) he said he has not been asked to pay the balance yet and still he offered to trade spots with you who have paid already, trying ipso facto to scam your payment.
Tell me about shill and scam, this LoS guy should be warned by the admin at least.
I hereby start a petition to have him muted except for rare occasions in which he will only be allowed to talk random bullshIt.

A cautious JellyJoe

post of the year ..................:band::notworthy::cool2:

 

[seanf]

BK just posted this message on RG concerning the delays on the LV project:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bklm1234
Assembly going slow and frustrating. A lot of work this watch. Bezel sometimes don't turn. Have to pop it and try another one. Weird thing is 1 bezel doesn't turn on one retaining ring but can turn perfectly on another one. It's a guessing game, trial and error. Most bezel inserts have to be shaved on the back otherwise they inhibit the turning of the bezel. Polishing the rehaut edge and bezel edge can be very long. It's a lot of work guys. Division of labor between me and my partner on the first 80 watches is a mess. My fault to make my partner press in the crystal. I didn't use to make him do that for example on the YMs. Given there are so many preorders (~150) for this watch and my partner can dedicate more time to assembly than I, I made him press in the crystals. Ends up I have to pop every crystal and redo them. I now remember why I stopped making him press in crystals. The next batch I will press the crystals myself, that will speed things up significantly.

As much work and frustrating this watch is, I can't rush through any one of them. I enjoy the assembly process. I enjoy solving the problems. If I were in this only for the money, I'd let somebody else assemble everything. It would have been OK if I can find someone who do a good job. As good as my partner who is great on assembling the gut, he'd be leaving dust on under the crystal, cyclop crooked, little flaws here and there.

I sounded angry bender222? I don't mind PMs on anything interesting - mod questions or requests, parts requests, orders, advise - all interesting. Question on the status of your LV is the most boring. The main problem is I get so many. Just when you consider "let me shoot BK a PM to ask him when I am", think about other people can be doing the same, "let me give BK a break". In fact, since I came back from vacation, I spent close to 8 hours a day, stealing my day job's company time replying PMs and emails and I still can't catch up. One reason is "what's the status of my LV or SD or TT?" It's true that the time isn't my assembling time, it's still a lot of work looking up where you are in the queue, estimating how long I need to take to do your watch and that bores me to tears.

-bk

 

[KBH]

So, once again, there is no real information! Particularly for the SD purchasers.

I think what we're looking for is where are we in the production sequence for the watches that were promised months ago? How hard is it to say the SD cases will be ready in 30 days, 60 days, whatever? We'll be assembling in xx days. Delivery in a month, two months, three months.

I understand his being bored with telling each purchaser when it will be ready, but one blanket statement of where we are in each project could be done in less than an hour and would ease of lot of peoples fears. It's really George's job but BK is our representative. It's his job to find out and keep us apprised of the situation. George's current web sit problems aren't helping my confidence level.

 

[ahw676]

Maybe the take home message from his post is that he is still in active production of this product and hasn't forgotten about it, nor he is running off with the funds. It's taking longer than everyone has expected, but I'm sure that most will agree that they'd rather have quality than speed. At least he is taking care to ensure that things are right in final production.

 

[maxquillen]

I'm a noob here, but even I could figure out the dealer's identity. I've got a vested interest in the dealer, too, as I've got a black v3 on order that I was told would be delivered in about a month, and I'm paid in full. Well that was 37 days ago. There is no rehaut engraving on the black v3 that had been an issue on the LV. I suspect the bezel is causing the same issues as on the LV.

In fairness, BK has answered my pm's with no problem. I've only sent him a couple as I know how busy he is. With all due respect to BK, however, just because you are busy is no reason to over promise and under deliver. In business, that's about the worst thing you can do. I don't even want to address long vacations when there are paid order backlogs. I know WM9 has caused some of the delays as well.

If one believes the law of supply and demand, then it sounds as though BK isn't pricing his watches high enough. Whether the throughput problem is due to parts inconsistencies or just poor time management is beside the point. I suspect it's a bit of both, and I doubt it's purposeful. It's extemely hard to keep everybody happy all the time. I suspect if BK had his druthers, he'd like everything shipped yesterday.

I know BK said he got into a payment dispute a while back, perhaps that put him in a squeeze. I really think that an open acknowledgement in this thread is important. No one here wants disputes, we all want quality watches...when promised. Sweeping this under the rug or otherwise closing this thread would be a step in the wrong direction, but that's just this noob's opinion.

 

[d4m.test]

My update from Dealer in Question

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 8:08 AM, wrote:
> I see there is some movement on the TT and SD. Have your received any of the parts yet? Do you have a better estimate?
>
> I didn't order an LV but are you almost through putting those together?
>
> Thanks for the update.

TT is almost done. George said he will send pics to me first.
SD is easily March
I'm still 2 months from finishing all the preordered LVs

He mentioned in a previous email that he had north of 200 LV orders. At least I have more posts than 9posts does.

 

[doctorron]

I never doubted BK's intentions. However, many times I've seen a dealer get busy over his head and give up, get confused, or do shoddy work. Once again, I understand where carnut is coming from without doubting seller's intentions.

 

[ewatch]

Wow this should be addressed with caution, its a delicate issue given the quality of what he delivers vs the time of delivery, being that everyone raves when they finaly recieve the product one must decide if the wait warrants the quality.

 

[R2D4]

I never doubted BK's intentions. However, many times I've seen a dealer get busy over his head and give up, get confused, or do shoddy work. Once again, I understand where carnut is coming from without doubting seller's intentions.

For one of the reasons you state from what you have seen in the past, My 2cents would be that Bk is not going to be shipping shoddy work. So if one of the bezels aren't perfect, he won't accept it. I am not a shill, Bk was the first persons here on RWI to show me the way. I have never seen him wavier from the center line.

This is from another forum in reply to a thread titled Is anyone still waiting for thier WM9 LV?

Assembly going slow and frustrating. A lot of work this watch. Bezel sometimes don't turn. Have to pop it and try another one. Weird thing is 1 bezel doesn't turn on one retaining ring but can turn perfectly on another one. It's a guessing game, trial and error. Most bezel inserts have to be shaved on the back otherwise they inhibit the turning of the bezel. Polishing the rehaut edge and bezel edge can be very long. It's a lot of work guys. Division of labor between me and my partner on the first 80 watches is a mess. My fault to make my partner press in the crystal. I didn't use to make him do that for example on the YMs. Given there are so many preorders (~150) for this watch and my partner can dedicate more time to assembly than I, I made him press in the crystals. Ends up I have to pop every crystal and redo them. I now remember why I stopped making him press in crystals. The next batch I will press the crystals myself, that will speed things up significantly.

As much work and frustrating this watch is, I can't rush through any one of them. I enjoy the assembly process. I enjoy solving the problems. If I were in this only for the money, I'd let somebody else assemble everything. It would have been OK if I can find someone who do a good job. As good as my partner who is great on assembling the gut, he'd be leaving dust on under the crystal, cyclop crooked, little flaws here and there.

I sounded angry bender222? I don't mind PMs on anything interesting - mod questions or requests, parts requests, orders, advise - all interesting. Question on the status of your LV is the most boring. The main problem is I get so many. Just when you consider "let me shoot BK a PM to ask him when I am", think about other people can be doing the same, "let me give BK a break". In fact, since I came back from vacation, I spent close to 8 hours a day, stealing my day job's company time replying PMs and emails and I still can't catch up. One reason is "what's the status of my LV or SD or TT?" It's true that the time isn't my assembling time, it's still a lot of work looking up where you are in the queue, estimating how long I need to take to do your watch and that bores me to tears.

-bk

I am trying to get him to come here and make a statement, so are the other Admin. That post was made at 2:30AM on the 16th so I imagine this is really a challenge to administrate and he isn't really happy with the speed at which this going.

Let's give him a little longer to post his thoughts here. I see reason to heighten concern but let's not panic yet. Hopefully we can get these concerns answered for.

Sincerely,

R2

 

[ThreadLocker]

I am trying to get him to come here and make a statement, so are the other Admin.

Let's give him a little longer to post his thoughts here. I see reason to heighten concern but let's not panic yet. Hopefully we can get these concerns answered for.

Sincerely,

R2

He has had time to post here asking that all TTs be paid in full, prior to completion, so he can buy the parts.....looks like he is using customer money as investment capital.....but the stockholders are not being offered dividends. LOL

Also, sorry to hear that it bores you to answer the people who are funding your money-making venture....BK.......seems like this modder is a prima-dona, and wishes not to be disturbed by the mundane.

I was in WalMart yesterday, and tried to buy a Timex.....they were out of the style I wanted....they said they could get me one and asked me for a deposit......said I would get one in about 16 months, as long as it was paid in full 3-4 months prior to completion.....I respectfully declined....If I wanted to invest in WalMart, I would have bought stock.

 

[hooligan]

ThreadLocker, we get it - you don't agree with how he's running his business. I don't either, truth to tell.

However, this is not the first batch that he has run as such, and there is nothing here to indicate that people aren't going to get their watches.

You don't have money on the line in this issue, and that is your choice. Others do, and that is their choice. Who are we to say they are wrong?

Please give it a rest.

 

[carnut]

$$ has been refunded.

Well, everything has worked out, I suppose. All $$ sent has been refunded including the initial deposit. In a way, I feel victorious- did not lose a penny. On the other hand, it's a little sad as I've been anxiously awaiting the LV for a year and the V3 for over a month.

Bk did say (yesterday/ this morning) the watches were ready and that he would ship today if I wanted. I said yes, that would be great although I did have mixed feelings about jumping line. He then sent another note saying I needed to drop the dispute prior to shipment and I politely declined (once you drop a dispute you lose the right to dispute again). I asked him to trust me the way I've trusted him (for over a year) ship the watches and I'd then drop the dispute but he decided to refund the $$.

So I guess we will have to wait to see if I am a paranoid jerk or a genius. As I see those of you with more patience getting your watches I will indeed be jealous, and I hope that is the case.

In the mean-time I'm going to pony-up a little more and just get a used gen.

 

[wat44]

all's well that ends well!