Question on paypal/Ebay dispute.

[watchbuff]

This is a first for me.
I sold some scuba euipment on Ebay to a fellow in Hong Kong. The auction ended, he won and I shipped out the item in 11/25/09
He did not receive it. We have been in communication back and forth, mostly amicable.
I shipped it Priority mail which cost me a few dolalrs more than the original parcel post I posted it for. Insurance was offered and he did not make note he wanted it. The Priority mail ship price did not include tracking. however the customs form # does indicate that I shipped a package to HK on that date for that for a particular weight and that it was accepted at my post office.

No more info on the package is available
He has since filed an ebay claim ( wtf do those do) I escalated it to a claim for ebay to determine. I will gladly send them the copy of my shipping receipt with the info on it.

He also started a paypal dispute...not escalated to a claim yet. But of course the funds are now in limbo until the isse is resolved by us or it gets upped to a claim for one of their 10 pound braims to figure out.:wacko:

If that happend I will then again send them a copy of my USPS receipt with the info on it for that shipping info and customs info. Does anyone have experience here with what i can expect?
Im out a $350.00 scuba regulator but the poor chap in HK has not got it either. Ive actually sold to this fellow before and we have had 3 good transactiosn so him being a scammer is not on the table.

As far as someone getting fcuked out of the $ I do not want it to be me and with teh info I provide I hope that it will be in my favor. Any experiences or tips that may help?
Thanks

 

[hk45ca]

if you can prove you sent the item and he failed to buy the insurance i can't imagine how you will be responsible for it. you fulfilled your end of the deal, this is exactly why the insurance is offered. i will be very interested to hear how this comes out because if the seller is still responsible for it i will never purchase the insurance again.

 

[Fiddo]

It's been a couple of years since I sold on stuff on Ebay. As I recall, you need to provide Ebay with proof of delivery to avoid his claim of item not received. I believe they also require signature confirmation for items over a certain dollar amount.

Since he does not have his item and you can't prove that he does have it,you need to "bargain" with the guy at this point. For example, offer to refund part of the shipping etc.. Hopefully, it will show up during this process. Also, contact USPS and have them trace the package...if they still can. In the end, if he claims he does not have it and you can't prove that he did get it...PayPal/EBay will likely give him his money back.

 

[Hogan]

I too am interested in this.... Granted mine is only for $50, my buyer did not pay for insurance or tracking.... So I shipped it parcel post almost 2 weeks before Christmas. The guy still has not gotten it.

Sorry for the hijack....

 

[techlogik]

If you proved you shipped the item and he did not take insurance to PP...they have to close the dispute and release the money.

This is a shipping issue, not a PP issue. PP pulled this same crap with my wife on a transaction. UPS even said they delivered it...to the wrong house. 3 months later, finally got the funds back and refunded the person the money.

 

[CBR]

Unless things have changed recently, Ebay/Paypal not only requires a tracking number that shows the item was delivered. BUT it must show the address to which the package was delivered and that address must be the confirmed Paypal address for the seller to have any protection.
It used to be a real catch 22 (and still may be). You could accept a payment via Paypal, ship an item using the Paypal print a label feature. BUT that did not offer the necessary protection to protect you against claims such as this. They offered the shipping feature but DID NOT do it in a way to offer any protection at all for a seller/shipper.
I hope for your sake things have changed... But I dont think they have.
One additional word of advice, ask the buyer to simmer down for awhile longer. Most packages are moving slow right now. When I shipped 747 his watch, it took nearly 6 weeks to get from California to Australia via the exact same method you used.

 

[JohnnySac]

This is a first for me.
I sold some scuba euipment on Ebay to a fellow in Hong Kong. The auction ended, he won and I shipped out the item in 11/25/09
He did not receive it. We have been in communication back and forth, mostly amicable.
I shipped it Priority mail which cost me a few dolalrs more than the original parcel post I posted it for. Insurance was offered and he did not make note he wanted it. The Priority mail ship price did not include tracking. however the customs form # does indicate that I shipped a package to HK on that date for that for a particular weight and that it was accepted at my post office.

No more info on the package is available
He has since filed an ebay claim ( wtf do those do) I escalated it to a claim for ebay to determine. I will gladly send them the copy of my shipping receipt with the info on it.

He also started a paypal dispute...not escalated to a claim yet. But of course the funds are now in limbo until the isse is resolved by us or it gets upped to a claim for one of their 10 pound braims to figure out.:wacko:

If that happend I will then again send them a copy of my USPS receipt with the info on it for that shipping info and customs info. Does anyone have experience here with what i can expect?
Im out a $350.00 scuba regulator but the poor chap in HK has not got it either. Ive actually sold to this fellow before and we have had 3 good transactiosn so him being a scammer is not on the table.

As far as someone getting fcuked out of the $ I do not want it to be me and with teh info I provide I hope that it will be in my favor. Any experiences or tips that may help?
Thanks

Have you attempted to preempt this debacle by contacting PayPal?
I was scammed, hacked and was refunded in 7business days..
I did all of the arbitration over the phone.

 

[CBR]

This is directly from the Paypal website tonight... They still do require ONLINE proof of delivery AND signature confirmation for transactions over $250.
Unfortunately, in this case... you will lose the claims process.

Proof of delivery

Proof of delivery is acceptable documentation if a buyer files a claim, chargeback, or reversal for either an unauthorized payment or merchandise not received. You need online tracking information from a shipping company that:

1. Shows the status as delivered.
2. Shows the date of delivery.
3. Includes the recipient’s address, showing at least the city/state or ZIP code (or their equivalent).
4. For payments of $250 USD (or local currency equivalent) or more, includes proof of the recipient's signature to confirm delivery.

 

[hk45ca]

and the buyer not paying for insurance when it was offered? what about that?

 

[watchbuff]

Well it was a $350.00 item The insurance is optional and did not hqve tracking other than the customs # on the form. Tne USPS online service stated that the package was accepter at my post office. From there the dopes at the USPS or HK post lost it. So I will have to eat the $? Should I escalate this to a claim? Not like it matters the funds are hostage now.

 

[hk45ca]

i have never sold on the bay only bought. as a buyer i assumed if i failed to buy the insurance it was my problem if the seller could prove it was shipped. like i said, if you have to eat it i will never buy the insurance again, there would be no need if the seller is still responsible for it.

 

[tommy_boy]

I heard a guy at a UPS store lamenting that eBay is all about protecting buyers now. Kinda like the seller is guilty until proven innocent. If that's true, we should force the buyer to pay for insurance from now on.

 

[CBR]

The friend that I mentioned has over 18,500 feedback on Ebay. This has been accumulated in just under 5 years. So that equates to ALOT of experience. I just spoke to him and he stated that for transactions over $250 Paypal will find in the buyers favor unless you have a signed delivery notice.
Insurance is a non issue. He offers insurance, and even when the customer DOES NOT purchase the insurance, he pays for it. He is insuring HIS LOSS not theirs.
This is also directly from the Paypal website... They instruct the SELLER to buy insurance for the package.

Insure packages.

When sending goods, opt for postal insurance to protect yourself in the event that a shipment is lost or the buyer claims it was never delivered.

i have never sold on the bay only bought. as a buyer i assumed if i failed to buy the insurance it was my problem if the seller could prove it was shipped. like i said, if you have to eat it i will never buy the insurance again, there would be no need if the seller is still responsible for it.

That is correct... the seller is responsible for purchasing the insurance. If you are paying for insurance all you are actually doing is covering the sellers ass.

 

[fakemaster]

Jeez. Why would you not want to insure such an expensive item?

 

[Vert]

I would suggest contacting the post office in China. Your buyer could very well be trying to pull a fast one on you. PayPal will 90% rule in the buyers favor. Unless PP has changed their modus operandi you're screwed. I sell on eBay quite a bit, make my living there actually and I never under any circumstances ever offer any option other than USPS Express mail for International with the exception of Canada because as you have discovered with Priority there is no way to track the package and in PP's eyes if you can't prove it was delivered you're SOL. I could be wrong but prepare yourself for PP ruling in the buyers favor. I'm sorry to hear you could be out $350. I've never had a problem mailing to China and I've sent many packages but always Express mail. With a little luck hopefully the package will show up. Sorry Watchbuff.

Vert

 

[guanaco]

Bottom line: If you can prove it was sent by providing the tracking number to PayPal they will go in favor of you.

 

[watchbuff]

well the proof I have only is that I have a receipt for shipping that package on that day to hong kong along with the customs # on the receipt that shows that the package was accepted at my post office.
So that's where I stand. Thanks all for the help. I guess 100% feedback and a good paypal transaction record would not help.
I don't think I'm scammed by the buyer, but some douche maybe stole it between the US or HK.

 

[Fiddo]

Bottom line: If you can prove it was sent by providing the tracking number to PayPal they will go in favor of you.

They require proof of delivery. If the seller can't provide it, the buyer gets the money back. Basically, it a buyer's world on Ebay. I sold quite a lot of collectible comic on Ebay for a period of aboot 18 months. I learned the following really quick-

1. I shipped everything with delivery confirmation...always.
2. If the item was betwenn $50-250. I added insurance and paid for it.
3. If the item was more than $250, I stated in the item description that insurance was mandatory and would be added to the shipping price based on final sales price,
4. I never shipped outside the USA.
Even with these simple guidelines, I was still scammed by buyers and lost a good chunk of money in refunds to protect the "ever precious"100% feedback.

 

[Vinny]

It is so very true that paypal/ebay sides with the buyer , I recently went over this ,more than once with paypal over the phone and they told me this - in a case where it is the buyers' word against the seller - they will side with the buyer , I guess this makes some sense since the buyers are the ones with the money?

 

[tommy_boy]

It is so very true that paypal/ebay sides with the buyer... I guess this makes some sense since the buyers are the ones with the money?

Some sense, sure, but that presumes that they also are the only ones with the facts and integrity. If a shipment goes astray for a variety of reasons and neither party has anything (the buyer has no money and the seller has no goods) then this is where insurance should kick in. But the manner of intrusion by e-bay into the resolution is irksome to me and to others. It's there to preserve their marketplace, pure and simple, IMO.

That said, it's their system. There are good alternatives for sellers. My kid uses Amazon.