{*PCTeam*} PAM Boutique Special Editions – KW vs. Hmaker PAM417 – ALE-Klockis Review

[fortis Persicum]

Bravo! Well said

People coming in with this mentality that all of this (free!) intellectual property is commonplace, with no regard to the fact that the 2 gentleman who put this review together are highly paid, highly educated professionals outside of this board, is plain annoying, and disappointing! They donate their time and knowledge to our hobby for no other reason than for the passion, and the appreciation of the 'privileged' few that make up this forum. To have a minority make complete dicks of themselves by acting like high school girls, full of entitlement attitude, expectancy and lacking basic appreciation and consideration for the effort of others is uncalled for, disrespectful, and jut plain rude.

Instead of coming in with your gung-ho antics, all guns blazing making accusations and criticisms, how about you respectfully and tactfully state your opinion without losing sight of the fact that, regardless of whether or not you THINK you can do better, you actually haven't...

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that most of the shit-stirrers in this pot have done SFA in a positive sense for the forum. In which case, as one of the less patient (obviously) of the group, I'd remind you that you're here voluntarily, and the forum is made up only of what information people are prepared to share for free... I'd encourage that notion if I were you, not shit on it.

If this makes no sense to you, I'd suggest you may not fit in around here.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kleen]

Because this is essentially a shill for these watches.

Get the **** outtahere...jeeeezusss!

 

[Klockis]

I woke up this morning and had a mail from trailboss that said the admins on this board have given me and ALE a reward for this review.
I was so happy and had a smile all the way to work since this is my first award on this forum.

But then I open this thread for the first time in a few days and see this.

I don’t know what to say really.
I did not get mad or pissed off.
I got genuine sad.

Sad that some people, that you have got to know over the years from all the rep foras, was honestly thinking that we worked on this review and devoted all of our free time for a couple of months just to promote a specific watch or factory.
You don’t have to agree with me, point out the mistakes I have done and set me straight.
I don’t have a problem with that.
But please don’t tell me that I have lied just to make members buy an inferior watch.

I’m sad that people have questioned my integrity.
I’m not here with an agenda or to pick fights.
I’m here to have fun and because I want a break from all the responsibility that comes from my work and to make new friends along the way that share our passion, watches.
I have always thought that these forums was full of knowledge and full of awesome people that was willing to share that knowledge to help each other out and ultimate help factories to make even better replications in the future by pointing out flaws.

You can of course disagree but I don’t think that this review is biased.
I tried to write the facts that I saw after everything was laid out in our review outlines.
Those who have been around for some time knows that Im a Noob fan-boy at heart and that has not changed.
But just because I think one factory makes the best watches don’t mean I can't appreciate another makers approach.
Witch one of the H-fac or KW 417 is the best is really up to you to decide.
I think we pointed out the flaws of both watches and you have to decide what flaws you can live with and base you decision on that.
Most people don’t mod their watches like some of us do so Noob watches are not even in this equation. Just out of the box 417, either H-fac or KW.

You don’t have to agree with what we are saying in the review, you can use the pics and make up your own mind what suits you and your preferences.

You can of course state your opinion in this thread even if it’s different from mine,
that just makes for a more alive thread and it will be even fuller of knowledge if we get different opinions from people who know more about these watches then me.
I would very much like that.
But please don’t say that the only reason we made this review was to promote Kuvarsit,
that is an insult to both me and ALE and I think it will hurt the forums in the long run if people are thinking twice before they do a review or share their opinions if they think that other senior members will accuse them of being bought by a dealer.

We still have a few weeks of work to finish the 44mm case review (Noob/H-fac/KW) but I’m not so sure that I want to do that with the same enthusiasm as I have so far if I have to careful choose every word I write in fear of sounding like I’m in favor of one maker or another.

Over and out..

 

[fortis Persicum]

Klockis and ALE I wouldn't worry too much about the mumbo jumbo these guys wrote. Its obvious. That they want to instigate something. No need to feel sad my friend, the bs is pointless. There are 1000s of members that truley appreciate the work you guys do and have done. Bravo to both!

 

[ALE7575]

...but does it have gen-like feel ?

Don't you know? With gen-like feel, you don't need to bother little things like lug-profile and lever tip accuracy.

Because this is essentially a shill for these watches. Pointing out flaws is the way to ensure higher quality watches. Ignoring them and blindly following the pack is the wrong way to go.

My problem is with the number of times the phrase "leaving side accuracy" is mentioned. I mean, isn't accuracy the very definition of what it means to be a good replica. You can have a shiny and well finished case, but if it isn't accurately shaped, what's the point? It was said that the case dimensions are similar between the H-factory and the KW, but we already know that the noob v3 cases trump the H-factory cases by far. As far as I'm concerned, this watch is a step backward, especially considering the how much time exists between the H-factory 41Xs and the release of these KW 41Xs.

You are just trying to spoil this review. Trashing a good job with falsehoods
I'm worried but not for my, but for Klockis, who has spent a lot of time preparing this review with me. And he doesn’t deserve that.
Please leave Klockis aside from this matter, because attacking this thread you are indirectly attacking him.
Usually people are nice and grateful, and we receive countless encouraging mails and PM from members, dealers and even makers. Otherwise, sad things like above posts would be disappointing.

No much more comments about offensive shill matter. Commented enough in other posts
-Read my thread about HBB V6 (114.000 views). Am I a shill for V6?
-Read my thread PAM GUIDE (more 200 views /day): all Super reps are from Noob, H maker and DSN. I have just included only one KW watch. Am I a shill for Noob, H maker and DSN too ?
-Read many of my post recommending PAM 390 H maker as my preferred PAM. Am I a shill for H maker agiain?
-Read many of my post saying that the most of my reps are Noob and recommending them. Am I a shill of Noob again?
-Read my two huge threads about the Last Step to the Gen of one of the best replicas ever made: PAM 111 Noob V3. Shill for Noob again?
-Many times I have written about my preferred reps: the old HBB from H maker. I got several HBB H. Shill for H maker again?

OMG!!! All that is public and written in all fora, you can consult it !!
This is just ridiculous. I’m getting boring and tired.

As said in another RWI post:
“ I have never received offensive comments about above posts
What is the matter with Kuvarsit watches?
Why am I receiving attacks for saying that KW has made a good rep, very GEN-like? However, I have received nothing when I announced good reps from H maker, Noob, DSN or V6…. I don't understand it.
Should I get some conclusions like my attackers do?
No, not at all. Many times we forget that this is a Hobby, that we are no professionals and we are here for and with pleasureâ€.


You all really have not read this PAM Boutique Review:
In this review we clearly said: THE CASE-SET REVIEW IS NOT YET PUBLISHED. WE ARE JUST MAKING IT !

Ignoring flaws
We are not ignoring flaws, we have just not reviewed yet the case-set, because we are just making this case-set review, as we are repeating many times in the current review. We cannot talk about lugs because we are not reviewing the case. We will see and review appropriately the lug shape and the tip lever when we publish the Case-set review.

“Leaving aside accuracyâ€
As you can see reading the review, all subjects are studied from different points of view:
Finish “leaving aside accuracyâ€, then only ACCURACY and then other aspects. Who is saying we are not talking about accuracy?? After the finish we always talk directly about accuracy.

Pointing out flaws is the way to ensure higher quality watches
OK I agree.This is always my point of view. And there are all my posts and threads to prove it.
Could you do the same?

GEN-like
If I feel GEN-like and it is proved that many people feel the same. Cannot we say it?. Shoul I shut up?

Sad, really sad

And now as Moderator of this Section I asked you to keep the discussion on watches and rep watches. And if you don’t agree some comments just say it, and if you want to refute it, please do it, but as rigorous and professional as possible.

As always trying to help
ALE

 

[Klockis]

Klockis and ALE I wouldn't worry too much about the mumbo jumbo these guys wrote. Its obvious. That they want to instigate something. No need to feel sad my friend, the bs is pointless. There are 1000s of members that truley appreciate the work you guys do and have done. Bravo to both!

Thank You

But the thing is that these people who post this are not some newbie that are trying to pick a fight. That I could just ignore.

But these are senior members that know what they talk about and are members that I respect from years of chatting with over @ RG and W-C.
Too be honest I’m a bit surprised that they don’t get what ALE are saying about that gen feeling.

One of these senior members owns a gen AP 15300 and the minute he posted a wristie of it I know it was a gen.
I did not have to look at the datewheel, the bezel screws or markers.
Just one look and I could tell it was a gen.
Because of that finish, fitment, polishing and brushing that the gen have.
That’s the gen feeling ALE is talking about, not that the screws are 0.02mm to small in diameter or the lugs have the wrong shape.
But the watch as a whole appears to be gen when looking at it from a distance on someone’s moving wrist. Not in static macro shots.

 

[trailboss99]

All I will say is this: I do not want to see any more personal attacks on the integrity of members, this will not do and it will stop, now.

 

[Kleen]

And now that the blatant BS has hopefully stopped, I can honestly say that I am REALLY looking forward to reading the second half of the review. An eagerness I'm sure I share with thousands of other members on the fora...;-)

Keep up the excellent work, guys!

 

[marlin2284]

Excellent and very detailed review as always, keep your chins up boys! There will always be some people that complain about one thing or another, but you must look beyond that and look at what the masses think about you outstanding work.

I am a firm believer in allowing everyone to voice their opinion, but it should be done more tactfully keeping personal attacks out of the mix. These two gentlemen worked very hard to make this excellent review, and where some my differ with their observations no need to make false or unsubstantiated accusations.

All of this silly stuff aside, EXCELLENT WORK GENTLEMEN, KEEP THE GREAT WORK COMING!!!!!:cheers:

 

[WingNut]

If Photoshop was the prerequisite skill to be a watch expert then any designer would qualify. Some of the most glaring and egregious errors gets glossed over while the sycophancy ensues.

A proper build...
View attachment 22004

:cheers:

 

[ALE7575]

If Photoshop was the prerequisite skill to be a watch expert then any designer would qualify. Some of the most glaring and egregious errors gets glossed over while the sycophancy ensues.

Some of my "Photoshop" works. For your entertainment:

SS 316L vs. 316F vs. 904L- The final VERDICT- A technical study
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/ss-316l-vs-82263

“SWAN NECK†(Part I) – What is this? How does it work?
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/swan-neck-part-what-thisi-84846?p=831645

“SWAN NECK†(Part II) – Does it work in replicas?
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/swan-neck-part-ii-does-84847?p=831646

“SWAN NECK†(Part III) – Statistical Analysis of faults and reliability in replicas
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/swan-neck-part-iii-statistical-90559?t=90559

The Last Steps to the Gen(Part I)–Swan Neck & Incabloc Mods.–Jan 2013
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pcteam-last-steps-134438

The Last Steps to the Gen(Part II)-Crown-Pin gasket-Gears-Wheels&Engravings
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pcteam-last-steps-134437

"Reference PAM REVIEW-GUIDE" - Replica Search, Identification, Evaluation & Selection
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/reference-pam-review-107365?t=107365

BRUSHING and POLISHING damaged bezels-Tutorial
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/brushing-and-polishing-82526

“Official Thread†HBB V6 Evolution – Compilation of data
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/official-thread-hbb-v6-evolution-82678.html

Rules to choose a Milgauss rep
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/rules-choose-milgauss-rep-pics-81731

"Swiss" ETA / Asian Superclones / Asian Clones – What’s the best choice?
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/swiss-eta-asian-superclones-asian-87509

In case you were no able to understand something. I will explain for you with pleasure.
Regards
ALE

 

[Ruski91]

Klockis is absalutly correct, its really a sad matter that some people can display such outright audacity.

Here you have two well respected members, who for the most part, are the go to guys for anything PAM related on this board. They have jobs, families and personal lives away from this place, yet they still find time to prepare detailed reviews that to my knowledge do not exist in any other watches sub forum. Not to offend the rolex area, or IWC area, but none of these places have a review guides that are as complete and as up to date as our PAM Section.

People dont realize that because of these detailed reviews, countless members have been able to research and find the best watches for themselves over and over. Would you all rather go back to having people ask what the best pam is every 20 seconds? Comments that were made in this thread were entirely uncalled for and disrespectful. Things like this can discourage future reviews and then what about the rest of us, we would all be Sh*t out of luck.

I am hoping that there were misunderstanding due to language barriers/translations, and not just simple disrespect. Ale/Klockis have done an outstanding job showing the positives and the negatives of these watches, in terms of aspects that have been reviewed to date.

I think i speak for the mass majority when i say that we value the tremendous effort and detail that was put into this review. So much talk, but so little action - if any of you think this was biased, feel free to provide us with your own detailed reviews that will undoubtedly lack the quality and precision that was provided by these two guru's.

 

[WingNut]

"Some of my "Photoshop" works. For your entertainment"

 

[ALE7575]

I'm really grateful for your support.
You are encouraging

And also thanks to negative people, they do more alive this thread

ALE

 

[shyreplover]

"The dogs bark but the caravan moves on"

A few idiots doesn't represent the general opinion. Keep up the good work Klokis & ALE!

 

[mir36]

Fantastic review! Amazing attention to detail. Thank you for sharing this.

 

[ALE7575]

Thanks friends for all your support
You encourage us to follow

ALE

 

[Dr Dre]

Amazing work Ale and team. Its worthy of being putting behind a paywall!

 

[ALE7575]

Amazing work Ale and team. Its worthy of being putting behind a paywall!

Hummmm....



Thanks
ALE

 

[PKNutsy]

What a Fantastic review. The level of detail and effort that went into this review is staggering. I want to personally thank you both for taking the time to build this in depth review. This has hugely increased my knowledge and for that I am truly Grateful.