Making a gilt dial (not decal)

[chrome72]

I wanted to shift away from pad printing.

that’s awesome. Glad others are tinkering. Would like to see some pics because that indeed is a lot of words

I had posted to a few forums about laser engraving a mask for electroresist and for making the cool pan am gmts but in gilt, like what MKII did for their Key West gmt. The xtool is would do it but like you said it’s like $700. The sculpfun s9 could do it too since it has a dot size of something like .05mm I believe. Those are like $230 and go on sale especially with the newer model that just came out. You could use the laser too to mark casebacks.

@bondidave Also I chatted with a pcb bird manufacturer. They use UV laser etching on photosensitive film and can get super minute details that don’t get etched away while in acid. It’s how they get fast, reliable super small details on the computer boards.
The xtool has a IR module which I think you mentioned. I have seen it zap away rust. I am guessing it will zap away oxidation too. If that’s the case you could straight up oxidize a dial then etch away the details. Are you in Australia since you are bondi? If you are us based I can send you some test dials.

 

[bondidave]

@bondidave Also I chatted with a pcb bird manufacturer. They use UV laser etching on photosensitive film and can get super minute details that don’t get etched away while in acid. It’s how they get fast, reliable super small details on the computer boards.
The xtool has a IR module which I think you mentioned. I have seen it zap away rust. I am guessing it will zap away oxidation too. If that’s the case you could straight up oxidize a dial then etch away the details. Are you in Australia since you are bondi? If you are us based I can send you some test dials.

Nope, not from Aus (Not enough "u"s in my colors for the King's English), I'm just an old-school Apple fan boy - "bondi blue" was the color name of the first iMac that came out in 1998 - I am just outside of Boston, MA. Happy to try out whatever kind of laser processing you're interested in seeing...

Was hoping to do a quick run this evening to get some photos up (however rough), but it looks like I polished my substrate a little too well and the paint wasn't adhering evenly.. I roughed 'em up again and they're drying now... probably should have snapped some photos along the way (and definitely before I stripped them back down again, even though I wasn't happy with the last batch - I have since improved my graphics by the painstaking process of manually adding Serifs in Illustrator).

I can literally watch paint dry, or I can go to bed and hammer 'em out in the morning. Leaning towards the latter

 

[GuillermoUgarte]

Excellent, @bondidave

Hammer ‘em out and post photos! Welcome back.

 

[chrome72]

Posted my tutorial on this thread

let me know your thoughts!

 

[bondidave]

Posted my tutorial on this thread

let me know your thoughts!

Excellent, @bondidave

Hammer ‘em out and post photos! Welcome back.

Many thanks for the warm welcome back.

Chrome: my thoughts are that I should just accept the fact that the photoresist followed by a chemical process yields more consistent results (although, it could be the number of variables I’m changing all the time) and give your method a whirl (I have a laminator somewhere, just need to get some chemical oxidizer and transfer paper - hydrogen peroxide isn’t quite producing results)… I may still pursue the laser-cured powder depth eating upper layers (which would also allow for some pretty dope looking matte dials).

So the issues with these could be a number of things: first I thought it might be the thickness of the paint - or the properties of the all-in one primer paint too coat glossy spray paint I was using (switched from glossy to matte), and only THEN did I realize the laser height was too low, resulting in the halo glow you can see on most of these. The matte one was my best from today, and it still looks like garbage (might improve with a top coat, but I am chalking today up as a loss)… my current theory on the resolution issue is a result of using a rasterized graphic instead of a pure vector (the Xtool software leaves much to be desired in the ability to “fix” what it thinks is a closed area/shape versus a hole - guess I should suck it up and pay for LightBurn)

Hey, at least I have pictures of todays failures! Ignore the “ghosting”, poor res, and lack of alignment - because the laser was too low, it bumped the dial on a few runs… so I just kept repeating it expecting them all to be messed up and guess what? Being Lazy These are the worst I have made, but I can only show improvement from here More soon

 

[chrome72]

@bondidave thanks for sharing. I’m on a little beach get away but when I get back I’ll post some really good photos of laser etched test dials some people in the laser engraving forums helped me with. Some of them the “SWISS” which is like .45 mm came out very legible. All my minute tracks and logos came out very crisp. I have a doc I can share with you via a dm of what the successful people suggested.

 

[bondidave]

@bondidave thanks for sharing. I’m on a little beach get away but when I get back I’ll post some really good photos of laser etched test dials some people in the laser engraving forums helped me with. Some of them the “SWISS” which is like .45 mm came out very legible. All my minute tracks and logos came out very crisp. I have a doc I can share with you via a dm of what the successful people suggested.

Looking forward to tips from people who actually know how to properly use a laser … I really should pick up the IR module (that would let me do all kind of fun stuff on any metal). Anyways, thought I’d share one from today which is decidedly better than yesterday’s (all vector based)… but it’s still not great (I’m thinking there’s still a laser height problem, and/or I’m using the wrong paints - I know I can get finer details than this)

 

[bondidave]

Just got the 1064nm IR laser module for my xtool (basically a poor man's fiber laser), and it does beautiful things to metal. This was the first thing that I did with it, as I didn't want to wait for paint to dry - quickly dabbed a blank dial with some aluminum blacking solution (intentionally uneven for that tropical look) - tossed it under the IR laser on fairly low power to etch off the patina - then coated with clear enamel. Focus distance is picky with this laser, and as you can see, I still ahve some vibration issues - but the OCC lines look pretty darn good for 0.5mm text.

I'm now playing with a bunch of new techniques, but I think once I work out ideal focal distance and get those little wiggles out, this will be the way to go. Excited to try this method on one of @chrome72 's galvanized blanks.

 

[chrome72]

You know what the crook is capable of and toy are getting closer to it. Keep it up

 

[lyricalgeek]

Where does one find the artwork for the 2 line gilt dial? I've got a 30W commercial CO2 laser and am willing to do some experimentation.

One method I've not seen explored is to use a marking fluid which is laser activated to produce the black portion of the dial while leaving the gilt portion clean to the brass. Some people have found molybdenum to work as the marking fluid or there are some commercially available spray chemicals available.

With good artwork I'm game to give these both a go.

 

[chrome72]

@lyricalgeek here is a page on another site that has quite a few https://rwg.cc/topic/182744-decals-print-dials/page/11/

There is also a thread on rwi you can find here https://forum.replica-watch.info/threads/decal-printed-dial.249254/ but when rwi upgraded a lot of comments/pics disappeared so I don’t know which page the templates are on anymore.

 

[aphmars13]

When you finally come up with something decent but you made a stupid mistake

 

[rangan]

When you finally come up with something decent but you made a stupid mistake

Hi mate , you did a great job , only backwards , but the serif fonts are perfect ,and also this veil of tropic is wonderful , I am always waiting for @manodeoro to start me my ....

 

[WatchN3RD]

 

[chrome72]

Your text didn’t appear to swell. What did you use to blacken?

 

[WatchN3RD]

I used some Jax brown and Jax black solution I got off Amazon. Unfortunately, the patina is a very thin coating, so the brown wasn't very effective. It's mostly Jax black with a little brown used to make it look less uniform.
It was my very first attempt trying this method, so I'm shocked it worked that well. It'll probably take me 10 tries to get the same results. There's some beginner's luck for you!

 

[chrome72]

I used some Jax brown and Jax black solution I got off Amazon. Unfortunately, the patina is a very thin coating, so the brown wasn't very effective. It's mostly Jax black with a little brown used to make it look less uniform.
It was my very first attempt trying this method, so I'm shocked it worked that well. It'll probably take me 10 tries to get the same results. There's some beginner's luck for you!

So what I have learned when chatting with the actual people who formulate these…t out need to have layers.you do layer one. Dry and then wipe off. Layer two. Dry and wipe off. And build it up so when you wipe off it’s a uniform colored layer.

 

[WatchN3RD]

I appreciate the feedback. I want to say I did something similar, but I definitely did not wipe off every single layer. I might give it a try to see if I end up with a "thicker" layer in the end. My intuition tells me a very mild acid somewhere in the process would create a surface that is more able to absorb the product as intended.
For instance, if I'm planning to do five layers. Maybe I use some lemon juice after layer 1 or 2, so the remaining layers have more to bite into. Or perhaps just do five layers after the layer done with a mild acid, since the acid would remove most of the prior patina.

 

[WatchN3RD]

Another thing to keep in mind is that we are working within the boundaries of 26 millimeters!

I can only assume these chemicals were developed with an end user of rich housewives that want to refinish furniture and make their free time worthy by doing something productive besides shopping.

It doesn't take much of a wipe to take off an entire letter with a 0.5mm width. I think we have a better chance here if we err on the side of caution; however, I will give the wiping technique a shot.

 

[WatchN3RD]

Well, I can confirm with 100% certainty that Jax Black is etching the surface.

I've also learned two new lessons.
1) A sunburst sanding of the dial brings out the best when you focus on a negative relief.
2) You don't need Sunnyscopa glue. Dollar store paint is possibly better!