KW PAM382, Details = PERFECT?

[Sultan Brunei]

Rhaykal, what makes it shrink? Water or use ?

 

[sanankid]

Ugh so how much more time? Weeks or months?

 

[rhaykal]

Rhaykal, what makes it shrink? Water or use ?

It is just the way canvas straps are I guess. mine didn't shrink to much but it did feel a bit tighter on the wrist.....almost as if it needed to be worked back out and stretched out again (its a donnerix canvas strap for AP.....Eric told me it'd shrink if it got wet, so it was expected).

 

[silverclaw]

CuSn8 isnt only a combination of copper and tinn. There are much more materials used, given endless possible CuSn8 combinations. Nobody knows, which exact combination of copper, tinn, phosphor, nickel, zink, iron, plumb and undefined other materials Panerai used for the 382 cases.

Definition CuSn8:

tinn (Zinn, Sn) possible percentage from 7.5 to 8.5 %
phosphor (Phosphor, P) possible percentage from 0.01 to 0.4 %
nickel (Nickel, Ni) possible percentage from 0 to 0.2 %
zink (Zink, Zn) possible percentage from 0 to 0.2 %
iron (Eisen, Fe) possible percentage from 0 to 0.1 %
plumb (Blei, Pb) possible percentage from 0 to 0.02 %
other materials (undefined) possible percentage from 0 to 0.2 %

and finally: copper (Kupfer, Cu) filled up the rest to 100%.

So, a little drop more or less from each material will bring an other color of the bronze and their oxidation, the color of the patina.

Ok, I am not a chemist, but I hope I forgot nothing

What you've described isnt CuSn8, it's simply "bronze".

CuSn8 in it's pure form is simply a material of ratio 1 Cu atom (copper) and 8 Sn atoms (tin).

The percentage mass of copper to tin is about 7% copper to 93% tin, with impurities. CuSn8 refers to the molecular composition of the material. I'm a chemist

Unless "CuSn8" is a branding thing, that's what it should be.

 

[asb987]

CuSn8 isn't the chemical term it is much more a branding term for the specific type of bronze. It references copper and tin 8% or 8% tin content. It's not wrote out in proper chemical composition form.

True CuSn8 also contains a few traces of other ingredients. If something is called CuSn8 there really should be no wiggle room as to what is in it, it is one specific combination.

 

[ALE7575]

What you've described isnt CuSn8, it's simply "bronze".

CuSn8 in it's pure form is simply a material of ratio 1 Cu atom (copper) and 8 Sn atoms (tin).

The percentage mass of copper to tin is about 7% copper to 93% tin, with impurities. CuSn8 refers to the molecular composition of the material. I'm a chemist

Unless "CuSn8" is a branding thing, that's what it should be.

CuSn8 is a commercial term to call some standards alloys of Copper and Tin with about 92% Cu and 8% Tin IN WEIGHT. It is not at all 1 atom of Copper 8 atoms of Tin. Nothing to do with a molecular composition of a chemical product. It is JUST an ALLOY without atomic interactions

ALE

 

[mysterio]

1 atom of copper and 8 atoms of tin would result to an alloy with a 93.73% Sn content in terms of atomic weight, which is almost the opposite composition for CuSn8 (92% Cu, 8% Sn).

 

[ALE7575]

I WILL REPEAT IT MORE CLEAR

We cannot speak about atoms combination in an ALLOY.

In an ALLOY all atoms conserve their own structure, is a BLEND or mixture of metals without atomic combinations, In the ALLOY the metals conserve their "identity". It is NOT a chemical compound with atomic interactions.

If you have Cl and Na atoms and form Sodium Chloride- NaCl (this is table salt), that is the molecular formula of a chemical product formed with 1 atom of CL and 1 atom of Na. The final chemical product, Sodium Chloride or table salt is completely different to Cl and Na, and these elements lose their properties in the chemical combination. Indeed Cl is very poisonous, damaging and dangerous, whereas we are ingesting NaCl (table saltz) everyday with our foods.

If you blend, with a FUSION PROCESS, about 92% Copper and about 8% Tin (talking about weight) and some other little quantities of other elements, you will get and ALLOY called Bronze CuSn8. But this is a commercial or technical name, it is not at all a molecular formula.
Talking about 1 atom of Cu and 8 atoms of Tin is just a mistake and completely absurd.

For your info I worked producing metallic alloys during more 25 years

ALE

 

[GBOGH]

I WILL REPEAT IT MORE CLEAR

We cannot speak about atoms combination in an ALLOY.

In an ALLOY all atoms conserve their own structure, is a BLEND or mixture of metals without atomic combinations, In the ALLOY the metals conserve their "identity". It is NOT a chemical compound with atomic interactions.

If you have Cl and Na atoms and form Sodium Chloride- NaCl (this is table salt), that is the molecular formula of a chemical product formed with 1 atom of CL and 1 atom of Na. The final chemical product, Sodium Chloride or table salt is completely different to Cl and Na, and these elements lose their properties in the chemical combination. Indeed Cl is very poisonous, damaging and dangerous, whereas we are ingesting NaCl (table saltz) everyday with our foods.

If you blend, with a FUSION PROCESS, about 92% Copper and about 8% Tin (talking about weight) and some other little quantities of other elements, you will get and ALLOY called Bronze CuSn8. But this is a commercial or technical name, it is not at all a molecular formula.
Talking about 1 atom of Cu and 8 atoms of Tin is just a mistake and completely absurd.

For your info I worked producing metallic alloys during more 25 years

ALE

For once, I agree with you on something.


:hehehe:

 

[bradj]

I talked with one of the raw materials buyers at a manufacture I rep, and they said that nobody refers to bronze in terms like CuSn8.. They actually call this type of bronze C52100

 

[ALE7575]

For once, I agree with you on something.


:hehehe:

Good one GBOGH

I hope that will go without setting a precedent !

LOL...

ALE

 

[ALE7575]

I talked with one of the raw materials buyers at a manufacture I rep, and they said that nobody refers to bronze in terms like CuSn8.. They actually call this type of bronze C52100

This is another commercial name for a similar bronze, but UNS norms. UNS.C52100 is a CuSn8 bronze

http://www.alb-copperalloys.com/phosphor-bronze/c52100/
http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=6417
http://www.makeitfrom.com/compare-m...B=Phosphor-Bronze-Grade-C-C52100-CuSn8-CW453K
http://www.efunda.com/glossary/mate...alloys--copper_alloy--wrought--uns_c52100.cfm
http://alb-copperalloys.en.alibaba..../CuSn8_UNS_C52100_Phosphor_Bronze_Alloys.html

Other International Specifications:
UNS.C52100, CDA521, ASTM B139, B103, B888, B159
European Standards: CuSn6, JIS C5210, CW 453 K, PB 104


ALE

Please leave already this matter, this is not the point.
We really need to know the chemical composition of the bronze used in rep cases of PAM 382 either KW of Zfac. To compare it with the gen. Just that

 

[Thrasher]

Gee Whizz I found his website

http://www.kuvarsit.com/index.php

 

[Sultan Brunei]

Now, the more interesting question is, HOW LONG should we wait to get our hands on KW382 ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Thrasher]

2 Days at the most and it will be the Best Ultimate 1:1, This from a very trusted source. My TC


TC= Trusted Cat , Who lives under deck and eats lizards and Mice. Sometimes when he gives me this kind of information I give him some #1 Best 1:1 cat food.icard:

 

[kayabun]

Now, the more interesting question is, HOW LONG should we wait to get our hands on KW382 ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Launch on Vesak Day .... Buddha's birthday !

 

[silverclaw]

CuSn8 is a commercial term to call some standards alloys of Copper and Tin with about 92% Cu and 8% Tin IN WEIGHT. It is not at all 1 atom of Copper 8 atoms of Tin. Nothing to do with a molecular composition of a chemical product. It is JUST an ALLOY without atomic interactions

ALE

My bad, I don't work with metals so I wouldn't know, I was using IUPAC rules to name an alloy icard2:

 

[ikiestik]

2 Days at the most and it will be the Best Ultimate 1:1, This from a very trusted source. My TC


TC= Trusted Cat , Who lives under deck and eats lizards and Mice. Sometimes when he gives me this kind of information I give him some #1 Best 1:1 cat food.icard:

I was drinking coffee when I read this and coffee actually came out my nose I laughed so hard.

 

[SUMIKITO]

And now after all the Atomic scientists have settled down for some strong coffee, .... the question begs to be answered : Is it really bronze , as bronze should be ? Solid, all the way bronze? Is it similar to the Gen composition, in color [side by side compare in broad daylight] same hardness, etc. etc................. And the investigation continues folks................... :thinking:

 

[sanankid]

Drill the case.