GMF released a GMT 3186 clone movement

[CaptTango1]

Honestly, I just want I the ability to put a gen crystal and date wheel in and have a somewhat of a reliable movement with a somewhat of a nice bezel insert. That's pretty much it. But again, i truly appreciate all of your inputs and knowledge you guys are sharing with the rest of us. I currently own the Noob V10 no date and that watch is perfect as far as looks are concerned. 12/15 seconds per day fast but that really is not an issue for me.

 

[KJ2020]

In regards to all that has just been said above, I would definitely go with ICHS too if the goal wasnt to use some amount of Gen parts.

Although one thing that I don't quite understand... in some reps I notice the date window isn't quite lined up with cyclops if using a gen-spec crystal. I mean, I understand that the date window is placed to accommodate the different diameter date wheel, but why then are some rep date windows aligned perfectly? I'm just referring to 2836 and 2824, not rolex clone movements

For most 5 and 6 digit rep dials whether they are for DG or ETA movements, the date window should be in one of two positions. They are the native datewheel position (no datewheel overlay involved) or the Rolex position (DWO needed to shift the numbers 1mm left). 3135 movement dials would have only one date window position, because the native datewheel position coincides with the Rolex window position. Crystals are made with cyclops placed for either date window position depending on the need.

With all the different sources that movements, dials and datewheels come from, there are going to be minor deviations from the two usual positions. This will result in some combinations with dates looking off center horizontally. The cyclops position adds another variable to this mix, and can be an improvement or an additional distraction.

We have all seen this. I recently worked on a Noob Pepsi that had a left justified datewheel until the dial was changed to a GMF dial. Then it looked perfectly centered.

As a side note, the DJ41 rep and gen dial has a date window that just happens to coincide with the DG/ETA native datewheel position. That can be useful when looking for a better DJ41 DW or DWO.

 

[KJ2020]

Also, what you think you see regarding datewheel position is not always the reality

Be sure to read Are my eyes deceiving me?

 

[Dissemination]

KJ2020 Ah thanks! I was confused as to how this could be. Thanks for explaining that certain dials are built for native-size ETA date wheels, or for gen-size datewheel overlay. This makes perfect sense now!

And yes, your post about the cyclops and perception is helpful, specifically when getting your first rep or two and you are hyper analyzing your rep. And especially if you haven't had much experience with Gens to use as a reference

 

[Genera74]

Ive been told by TD few months back that Noobs and GMF were phasing out the ICHS to focus on CHS. If thats true then its doubtful the GMF V3 Batman will be available in ICHS. Would be happy to be proven wrong though as Im very drawn to the new insert + ICHS

 

[Genera74]

You have to decide what's best for you. It might be better for someone just starting out in reps to stick with the tried and true 2836 ICHS. Especially with the GMF clone SA3186 being the least preferred base movement of all of them. CHS is overrated IMO, in 30 years of owning a gen no one has ever even noticed that or asked about it. Of the many GMT reps I own only one is CHS and I only bought that one as a lab rat to tinker with, lol.

As a reminder, look at what misiekped said about the SA3186 movement. He is a master watchmaker and the ultimate authority on GMT movements, gen and rep.



So if buying this GMF SA3186, I would be thinking about swapping in a VR3185 (~$180 plus labor) at some point. Nobody knows how long the SA3186 will last. Odds are it won't be as long as a 2836. If the higher cost and greater risk of movement issues are worth it to you to have CHS, then it's an easier decision.

Thanks for your advice - very helpful. Can I check what is the main issue that the SA3186 is the least preferred GMT movement out of the three - ie is it low reliability or that it cannot be modded (or both)? I dont plan to mod so reliability is key but if that is low in this movement then this is a poor choice.

thanks!

 

[KJ2020]

Thanks for your advice - very helpful. Can I check what is the main issue that the SA3186 is the least preferred GMT movement out of the three - ie is it low reliability or that it cannot be modded (or both)? I dont plan to mod so reliability is key but if that is low in this movement then this is a poor choice.

thanks!

It's based on the SA3135 bro, so it would have all the same disadvantages of that movement. There are a lot of threads discussing the pros and cons of 3135 movements. The SA is well known to be problematic. Plus the SA3186 looks like it has a proprietary jump click that operates opposite of gen. That means it's not likely replaceable by a gen part. Both the SH and VR jump clicks are replaceable by a gen part.

https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/the-3135-3131/7439844-3135-movement-comparison-gen-sa-sh-vr

 

[Hazing]

So a 3135 datewheel will slip right in?

On gen Rolex movements, the Sub and GMT movement are not the same are they? I am not sure as this will be my first exposure to anything other than a GMT with a 2813.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[KJ2020]

So a 3135 datewheel will slip right in?

On gen Rolex movements, the Sub and GMT movement are not the same are they? I am not sure as this will be my first exposure to anything other than a GMT with a 2813.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Yes bro, 3135-16200 gen DW *should* fit all the VR/SH/SA true clones. Every sample rep movement can have its own little peculiarities that might present some challenges.

That part number is the same for all 3135 family movements (includes Sub and GMT)

 

[Hazing]

Thanks brother. Still going to wait till it's in hand but just trying to get a feel for the field.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[Genera74]

It's based on the SA3135 bro, so it would have all the same disadvantages of that movement. There are a lot of threads discussing the pros and cons of 3135 movements. The SA is well known to be problematic. Plus the SA3186 looks like it has a proprietary jump click that operates opposite of gen. That means it's not likely replaceable by a gen part. Both the SH and VR jump clicks are replaceable by a gen part.

https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/the-3135-3131/7439844-3135-movement-comparison-gen-sa-sh-vr

Thanks bro very helpful advice


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[sickopsycho]

Pros of 2836 ICHS, even today these aspects favor buying one

Movement is rock solid
Easy to work on, ETAs are great learner movements
Easy servicing, can do it yourself
Replacement movement parts are cheap and readily available
Can install a gen Swiss ETA and carry over the GMT bits
The jump click (which operates the GMT hand) never breaks
Quickset date change (I hate hour jumping to change the date even on my gen)
Cheaper and more availability of GMT dials to swap things up if you want
ETA hands easily available if needed or desired. I have yet to see gen-spec aftermarket 6 digit hands for sale other than gen. TDs could be a source, but not easy these days.
Can still use gen crystal and DW if you want
Correct setting direction when used in a 126710 rep.

Not to mention the fact that it's only been a couple (few) months since these new clone movements were released. Before then, your option was either a ICHS that worked with no issues, or CHS that would crap out very quickly without extensive modifications, if that was even an option for the movement.

 

[Bobi01]

Talked with li jtime,bezel is improved on both jubile and oyster 2836 models but crystal is still the same,thick

 

[Conceyted]

Talked with li jtime,bezel is improved on both jubile and oyster 2836 models but crystal is still the same,thick

Dang, I was not aware that the crystal thickness was different. I've been searching for a comparison to see just how bad it is. Can you point me in the direction where I can find some details on the crystal thickness differences compared?

 

[Bobi01]

Dang, I was not aware that the crystal thickness was different. I've been searching for a comparison to see just how bad it is. Can you point me in the direction where I can find some details on the crystal thickness differences compared?

You can open video on trusty time of gmf 2836 and screenshot it and compare to new v3 gmf and you can see the difference

 

[Conceyted]

You can open video on trusty time of gmf 2836 and screenshot it and compare to new v3 gmf and you can see the difference

Good call. Thanks!

 

[CaptTango1]

You can open video on trusty time of gmf 2836 and screenshot it and compare to new v3 gmf and you can see the difference

Can this crystal be replace with a gen? With out any mods?

 

[Bobi01]

Can this crystal be replace with a gen? With out any mods?

It can be replaced but i dont know if mod is needed

 

[KJ2020]

The GMF ICHS version had some issues when the crystal was replaced. The clearance between the underside of the crystal and the second hand was insufficient to use the gen gasket for some members. There is a fix to increase that clearance. It's not known if this issue would pertain to the SA3186 movement. The 2836 ICHS uses a long pinion second hand that causes it to sit up higher from the dial. The ICHS movements have the GMT hand on the bottom and it has to sit up higher in the stack so it can clear the hour markers. Unlike the true clones where the hour hand is on the bottom and can sit lower along with the rest of the hands sitting lower.

Second hand catching on GMT crystal

 

[Conceyted]

The GMF ICHS version had some issues when the crystal was replaced. The clearance between the underside of the crystal and the second hand was insufficient to use the gen gasket for some members. There is a fix to increase that clearance. It's not known if this issue would pertain to the SA3186 movement. The 2836 ICHS uses a long pinion second hand that causes it to sit up higher from the dial. The ICHS movements have the GMT hand on the bottom and it has to sit up higher in the stack so it can clear the hour markers. Unlike the true clones where the hour hand is on the bottom and can sit lower along with the rest of the hands sitting lower.

Second hand catching on GMT crystal

Thank you, as always, for your thorough reply.