ETA 2836-2 vs Clone - how to tell "Swiss" from "Asian"

[ydw1988913]

Thanks for the info, I think older ETA 2836 have a little different detail.

 

[KBH]

I still believe the easiest and most definitive way to tell clone from ETA is the balance wheel shock system. The shock system used in the two lowest grades of ETA movements is the Novadiac/Etachoc. Novadiac shock systems are made by Incabloc, SA. http://www.incabloc.ch/en/incabloc_sa.php which is now part of the Swatch group. The same shock system when used in ETA movement is the Etachoc (for ETA shock). I have read that the use of the term Novadiac is being phased out. The two higher grade ETA movements use the Incabloc, although the lower grades can be ordered with the more expensive Incabloc for an up charge.

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Types of Anti-Shock Spring
There are currently two main companies that make shock settings; Incabloc and Kif. Of these the most common setting in use is the Incabloc, mainly due to its use in ETA movements.
The shock systems can be split into two main groups, those that are fixed in place and hinge upwards, and those that are removable.
Removable:

• Kif-1
• Kif-2
• Novodiac (made by Incabloc)
• Paraflex (made by Rolex)
• Etachoc (made by ETA)
• Duofix (made by Rolex)

Hinged:

• Incabloc
• Kif-3
• Kif-4
• Kif-6

Incabloc is owned by the Swatch Group (who also own ETA), whereas Kif is through a complex system part of Rolex. There is a story that Kif was formed due to an argument Rolex had with Incabloc many years ago, and so they decided to make their own “superior†shock system as a result.

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ETA does not make the Etachoc or Novadiac shocks system available to Chinese manufacturers and as a result they are forced to use the Chinese rough equivalent to the Etachoc which we have all seen.

I would like to see an actual known clone with an Etachoc system if they are available as implied in this thread as I have so far never seen one.

 

[timeisbakyn]

Great thread

 

[SS72]

The "Genuine ETA 2836-2" in one of my reps (bought from some dodgy dealer before I found RWI) doesn't even have the engraving on the rotor. All the other things are as you've highlighted.

Thanks for this post. Very helpful.

 

[KBH]

ETA sold many millions of movements with no engraving on the rotor when they sold ebauches to independent watch manufacturers who would stamp the rotors with their own brand names. I'm sure quite a few never got stamped and were re-sold.

 

[unreformed66]

ETA sold many millions of movements with no engraving on the rotor when they sold ebauches to independent watch manufacturers who would stamp the rotors with their own brand names. I'm sure quite a few never got stamped and were re-sold.

I can vouch for this, I've been doing watch repair for 25 years now and have seen more than a few ETA movements (of all different calibers) with no engraving on either the rotor if automatic or the plates if not. I don't think the Chinese were cloning any ETA's that far back.

 

[WatchMeWin]

This is awesome. Thanks for the info!

 

[Nitroboy]

Very usefull thread.
Thank you sir
More i read in this site more i know about replica.

 

[Homex]

Thanks for the informative comparison - very interesting and useful!

 

[Sermolin]

Hi Guys,

I've read all the thread but I am still not sure if this movement is real swiss or clone, can anyone tell me what type is this?

 

[Technit1957]

This looks like ETA, the OP has done a great job here. After reading his post you can easily figure this out. This is the post I have learned from.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[tripdog]

Hi Guys,

I've read all the thread but I am still not sure if this movement is real swiss or clone, can anyone tell me what type is this?

Looks to be gen ETA to me.

 

[fabbrisd]

To me - rotor markings shout "clone" - or "rebuilt" - I would suggest you do another self-comparison for yourself with the OP's great breakdown - which are the closest "ETA Bible" I have seen...

 

[JoaoVilarinho]

I never understood this Swiss/Asian battle from movements that are actually coming from far east.

From my experience, use and a abuse your clone ETAs. If they fail, get it serviced and have it running as good as a really Swiss one.

What's the best anyway? A serviced clone or an old sock gen ETA mov? [emoji6]

 

[SUMIKITO]

The 'ETA' mark on the movement of that one looks like it was 'laser etched' or, 'laser burned-in' ..no Genuine ETA is like that. In fact, they are not even 'stamped', but rather 'molden-in' to that bridge it is on. Or 'cast-in'. I'll say yours is a clone. A poor attempt too !!

 

[KBH]

To me - rotor markings shout "clone" - or "rebuilt" - I would suggest you do another self-comparison for yourself with the OP's great breakdown - which are the closest "ETA Bible" I have seen...

Rotor has a plate on it covering up the original markings. It's an ETA and probably an old one or NOS with the original watch brand stamped under the plate.

 

[Raddave]

Thats no clone ....

 

[SUMIKITO]

Forget the rotor guys ! It is the markings on the movement 'bridge' that matters. Like I said, look very closely. The 'eta' stamping is not stamped. It is laser burned or laser etched. It even has the 'carbon' burn-in on it !! No genuine 'eta' markings are ever burned in . Never ! They, the little tiny 'eta' marking with the 'eta emblem' were cast into that bridge when it was poured. That is the hallmark of genuine ETA movements. Never the rotor !! Rotors are a dime a dozen. They even interchange with clones, etc. It is the tiny little detail that make it a 'modern' copy, read; clone ! Heck, even the marking 2836-2 is laser etched, burned that is. Also with carbon build up on the numbers !! Clone ! CLONE !! ....... They marked it afterwards !! Real ETA's when in their 'pieces state' are marked when it leaves the 'casting'. The 'eta' emblem is part of the casting process !! Never stamped OR laser etched ! Then the bridges are 'finished' or smoothed out and assembled into a working movement. .....Genuine ETA : https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5808/23112129526_5445865f01.jpg ...........no burning of the markings !! And deep too !!

 

[Raddave]

I think thats the lighting Sumi, if thats a clone , its got a gen ETA shock housing on it

 

[SUMIKITO]

That Gen. looking ETA shock housing and 'clip' could very well be a clone too. The clone makers are very well up to speed in copying everything and anything nowadays ! I dont think it is the lighting. Why, well look at the '+' and '-' marks and the bar markers for adjustment. The are not 'laser etched' , no burning at the edges at all. Those are OK. But the stuff that is 'laser etched' is a dead give away. If they had cleaned up the 'edges' AND sand blasted the 'etching, it would be hard to tell. Laziness on their part. They thought no one would notice. That we are just blind bats. ............One day they will perfect this damn cloning business. It would then take a metallurgist examining the brass parts to tell clone from Gen. .... Nothing against clones here folks. Nope. They are great movements, easy to service and economical. And work very well. But a Cuban cigar from Havana is just that, Cuban.