Dogwood's Watchmaking Journey

[dogwood]

I've made a few threads here and there about some of the projects that come across my bench, but I figured it would be fun to make thread where I could post some more regular updates about interesting (or dull) things that happen on my work bench.

For those finding this for the first time, here are some of my past projects:

• Swapping the crystal gasket on my noob v4 (my first attempt doing something to a watch that wasn't wearing it).
• Installing one of Oascom's beautiful GMT Meteorite dials (an adventure in adhesives).
• Servicing a VR3235 (my first attempt at servicing a movement).
• Installing gen parts on a VS 3235 (3 months after my first attempt to service a movement, things were getting WAY easier).
• Swapping balances on a VS3235 to improve stability (learning how to read detailed timegrapher plots is fun).
• Servicing the clone AP 3120 movement from a ZF AP 15400 (my first service of a non-Rolex clone movement).
• Installing gen parts and doing a full service on a Noob 4130 Daytona movement (my first time servicing a chronograph movement).

There have been lots of other projects and serviced movements along the way, but they've never really been worthy of a thread... but hopefully with a general projects thread, I'll have somewhere to post pics and stories from the bench that might be of interest to some.

 

[dogwood]

For today, something interesting happened at the bench. Somebody sent me a VS3235 movement which wasn't running. This was a movement that I'd previously serviced, but had sent back to the person without fully casing it up in a watch case. The person who sent it to me enjoys working on his own watches and was doing a gen dial swap, and wanted to do some of the work himself. But after he installed the dial and hands, he said the movement wasn't running. I swapped messages with him on WhatsApp, and it sounded like the balance had somehow become "over banked" (as in the impulse pin was on the wrong side of the pallet fork). He sent the movement back for me to have a look at.

Sure enough, the movement was over banked, but when I took out the balance complete and re-installed it, the balance wheel didn't start swinging properly. This felt odd, so I started digging into the movement. After removing the automatic module something sprang out at me. The center seconds wheel pivot jewel on the train bridge was missing:




This is interesting... when I'd serviced the movement, I'd swapped in a new gen center seconds wheel since the VS one that was in the movement had a broken dial side tip. It had probably been broken in a failed hand install. I didn't think the gen center seconds wheel was too different from the VSF version when I did the install. But looking at them both under the digital microscope it doesn't look like there's any meaningful difference in the depth of the pinion and pivot:




So this left me thinking that the jewel must have popped out when the person who sent me the movement was installing the hands. When pressing on the seconds hand, the full load of the force being used to press on the seconds hand gets transferred to the jewel pivot in the train bridge. So I guess it's easy to over do it.

I've recently added a little jewel press and a simple set of dies to my bench, so I'm excited to try to replace the jewel pivot.




But for now, I don't have the right sized jewel. I've ordered an assorted set from Perrin in Montreal, but that will take a week to arrive. In the mean time (at the suggestion of the movement's owner), I looked to see if I could scavange a jewel from one of the (many) parts VR3235 movements on my bench. Sure enough it looks like the jewel for the center seconds wheel on the VR3235 train bridge has the correct hole size (perhaps a little bit tight, the VS3235 center seconds wheel pivot is 0.25mm in diameter).




But the outer diameter of the jewel in the VR train bridge is quite a bit too large.



I'm hesitant to ream out the hole in the VS bridge since I suspect that reaming wouldn't necessarily keep the hole center in exactly the same place it is now, and that could cause whatever jewel I press in, to be misaligned. So the current plan is to wait for the assorted hole jewels to arrive from Perrin and then see if there's one that will fit nicely in the VS bridge's hole and which has the correct sized hole.

 

[PsychoTee16]

Great to see you posting!
We all like to copy @Oascom original post!!

I have only had to replace a handful of jewels, but having a micrometer (Like a Kafer) works wonders. You can measure the pivot on the wheel and the old jewel if its intact somewhat, then order a new jewel from Seitz.
Also, they do make reamers specifically for this type of job. My Seitz jeweling tool has them.

 

[dogwood]

Great to see you posting!
We all like to copy @Oascom original post!!

I have only had to replace a handful of jewels, but having a micrometer (Like a Kafer) works wonders. You can measure the pivot on the wheel and the old jewel if its intact somewhat, then order a new jewel from Seitz.
Also, they do make reamers specifically for this type of job. My Seitz jeweling tool has them.

Thanks for the tips! This will be my first jewel replacement. Unfortunately the original jewel is long gone. Due to its position in the dead center of the movement, it likely fell down and out through the center rotor screw hole in the automatic module and onto the bench when the guy was pressing on the hands. So that means measuring the original jewel is history. But that’ll just make this more of a fun challenge. And if I can’t fix it (or if I break something trying) a gen main train bridge isn’t crazy expensive — rare collections has one listed for €129…

How much precision do you get out of your Kafer micrometer? I have a granite surface plate and a scribe / surface gauge that will give me +/-0.05mm. Although my machinist’s indicator will give me +/-0.01mm but only relative not absolute, although that could work since I could lock the arm, and zero the indicator to check differences in jewel position.

 

[dogwood]

And yeah, I might need to level-up my broach game… my current set is pretty basic. I bough these to open up the mounting holes on gen balance bridges. 0.80mm to 2.30mm in six steps might be a bit coarse.

 

[dogwood]

Facepalm... I realize now that Trevor was talking about measuring the jewel itself, not the depth of its position within the bridge. Yes, for that a micrometer that measured down to the 0.001mm would be very useful if I had the original jewel.

 

[PsychoTee16]

Thanks for the tips! This will be my first jewel replacement. Unfortunately the original jewel is long gone. Due to its position in the dead center of the movement, it likely fell down and out through the center rotor screw hole in the automatic module and onto the bench when the guy was pressing on the hands. So that means measuring the original jewel is history. But that’ll just make this more of a fun challenge. And if I can’t fix it (or if I break something trying) a gen main train bridge isn’t crazy expensive — rare collections has one listed for €129…

How much precision do you get out of your Kafer micrometer? I have a granite surface plate and a scribe / surface gauge that will give me +/-0.05mm. Although my machinist’s indicator will give me +/-0.01mm but only relative not absolute, although that could work since I could lock the arm, and zero the indicator to check differences in jewel position.

Mine is accurate to .01mm. It’s a slick tool. I’ve used it for more than just measuring jewels.

Another idea is to use your Jeweling press anvils and find one that fits really tight or hardly fits. That would be a good starting OD.

Then measure your wheel pivot, and I think add .01mm to that to get your hole diameter.

 

[dogwood]

That is a beautiful looking tool.

My jewel press doesn’t have a huge set of dies, but I think I have one that will hold a 0.35mm hole jewel. That might be far too loose if the wheel pivot is 0.25mm. So I might have to use one of the smaller dies that doesn’t have a hole spike at all.

 

[dogwood]

Today’s project is a routine 4130 service on a noob v3, with a bezel and gasket swap.

The exciting part is that I’m getting to use my new 4130 movement holder — it’s actually a zenith 4030 movement holder, but the Dandong 4130 movement fits perfectly. The zenith 4030 movement holder is easy to find on AliExpress for a little over $100. It’s so much more stable than using my little 4040 movement vise.

 

[dogwood]

My pack of 100 assorted hole jewels arrived from Perrin today. I spent a few minutes sorting them into containers based on outer diameter… then looked through the 0.90mm OD jewels for ones that might fit the 0.13mm pivot of the 3235 center seconds wheel. I found a good candidate, but without a set of pin gauges, I can’t actually measure the jewel hole diameter (N+1 tools on the bench). Then I was able to line the jewel up on the bridge and press it home. The process was surprisingly simple. A few pics:

 

[dogwood]

A new addition to my bench arrived today. I’m looking forward to using this… unfortunately one of the rings jars didn’t survive shipping. And for some unknown reason, the vendor (a watch repair supplier in Ontario Canada) didn’t include the bayonet mount mesh basket holder. But to the vendor’s credit they offered to ship out a replacement glass jar when I called to let them know — they didn’t even ask for evidence of the break. So that’s a nice touch.

 

[Kaloc]

Damn I want one too

 

[dogwood]

A few days ago I received a beautifully modded 3KF Nautilus with buff dial, hands, and datewheel. This was my first 5711 and I have to say, this watch is not over hyped. It is a stunning design.



However, less than a week later it suddenly stopped working. I know clone movements can be unreliable and expensive to fix since getting spare parts is nearly impossible. But without any options, I decided to open the watch up and take a look at what might be wrong. I decided to keep the movement in the case since I was hoping the problem would be obvious and superficial... and I didn't want to risk marring up the buff dial and hands.



Digging into the movement is pretty straight forward and most of the movement is accessible from the back.



The balance cock and automatic bridge came away easily. At this point I couldn't see anything obviously wrong, and I should have fully removed the movement from the watch to continue disassembly since the click isn't accessible from the bottom of the movement so there was no way to remove power from the main spring. But I forged ahead since I was on a roll, and it turns out, there was no power in the mainspring for reasons that will become obvious in a moment.



When I removed the barrel / train bridge, there was no power in the mainspring. But I did find a random 0.4mm screw jammed under the bridge. This screw isn't from the movement, so I assume it got in there either during assembly, or during the modding process in China. But as bad as an unsecured screw floating around the movement was, the reason the movement stopped was because the 3rd wheel's arbor had broken in half.



In the pic above, you can see the third wheel and the pinion still in its jewel pivot hole and the grey of the metal failure on both sides.

Needless to say I'm a little sad since according to my WeChat dealer, 3KF doesn't sell these movements on their own. So that means I'll have to buy a whole new 3KF watch just to get a spare 3rd wheel for the 324 SC movement. But, before I pull the trigger on that... if anybody out there has a broken 3KF 324 SC movement with an intact 3rd wheel, I would love to buy it form you

 

[dogwood]

It turns out the random floating screw in my movement was one of the two screws that would have been used to secure the dial feet. But since the buff dial doesn’t have feet, these screws were never tightened down. As a result one came loose after a few days on my wrist and fouled the movement. I’m not sure if the third wheel’s failure was a direct result of the screw, but regardless. I’m a little unimpressed with the modding work on this watch. I think it’s reasonable to expect a modder in China to remove or tighten down the dial feet set screws. But maybe it’s just bad luck and the screws were tightened, but came undone through bad luck.

But this is only bad if I didn’t learn anything, and today I learned how important it is to remove or secure dial feet set screws if the dial doesn’t have feet.

 

[dogwood]

Daytona in for service… the first movement to get cleaned in my new machine

 

[dogwood]

I finished up the Daytona today and got started on a VSF omega seamaster GMT. The VSF is beautiful, although I don’t love the action on the bezel, it feels much more rough than a vsf submariner, but maybe that’s the way the gen feels.

The movement has some annoying to remove decoration plates, but underneath it’s an Asian ETA clone which is easy to work on.

This movement has an interesting design for the automatic module reversers — these require a dip lubrication. I’ve heard that rather than buy Lubeta V105, it’s possible to make it using a ratio of mostly isopropyl alcohol and a tiny bit of Moebius 9010 (I can’t remember the ratio off the top of my head, but I’ll report back below when I find it again). Apparently when you dip the ratchet wheels in this solution and then dry them, you get a very thin film of lubrication on the part which is exactly what’s needed for the ETA ratchet wheels.

 

[WatchSmith.US]

Congratulations on your new machine. I’m still using an ancient Watchmaster ultrasonic. It has vacuum tubes and takes several seconds to warm up before it starts cleaning!

 

[dogwood]

A couple of interesting watches on the bench today: a VSF NTTD, and a ZF Breguet 7097. Both pic hacked by a local Vancouver guy, but shipped to me directly to me from China so I could silence the rotors on them. I did so on the VSF, but it was unnecessary on the ZF since the rotor isn’t loud (it’s about as loud as the similar one-way winding rotor in the 3KF 324SC movement.

But, WOW, the VSF rotor assembly on the NTTD is deafeningly loud. Although that’s not really surprising considering the cantilever moment due to the separation between the rotor and the bearings due to the decoration plates VSF used to hide the ETA clone movement. Regardless, it’s not hard to get to the bearings to add some oil which does cut some of the sound.

 

[patnaboy]

@dogwood I don’t venture much in this section of the forum. I stumbled upon this thread. Its nice to see a Canadian member with these skills. As you said, its hard finding someone who will work on reps. Thanks for sharing your journey. I have also wanted to get into at least doing some basic work on my watches but just never got around to it. I will someday. It seems you have come a long ways. Servicing movements is no easy task and you have done quite a few already. Kudos to you. Keep up the good work.

Subscribed to this thread

 

[dogwood]

Thanks @patnaboy it’s been a fun journey this far. I find working on movements (especially ones I’m now familiar with) to be a very zen experience. But there’s always more to learn (and more tools to acquire)!