Disappointing Z-Factory Bronzo PAM 382 has Bad Build Quality/QC

[TESLA760]

Oh really ? So you collect reps to wear around your house ? Now that is fascinating.

 

[pirho123]

You guessed...incorrectly. :lol: There are issues with this watch, admittedly, and some have pointed out what's wrong with theirs. But they would not be the majority of the PAM382 reps sold. More often than not, people will post when they are unhappy with their purchase, not when they are satisfied. This does not excuse the maker from rectifying the issues found with their watches. But this does not mean we should just call the watches crap. And no watch is perfect, I've seen even the venerable Noob PAM111s have issues from the QC pictures being posted. How about gens? Even gens are not immune to manufacturing issues. The rep game isn't about paying for crap watches. It's about calibrating your expectations. If you can't stand this "crap", then like BMW said, go buy the Steinhart.

I mean that I won't buy a watch with QC flaws. I'm not saying about it must look like 100% gen. It' impossible. But for $500 it must not have QC flaws like that bezel flaws. My 111n doesn't have that kind of flaws. And Hublots V6. And of course all my gens watches too.

 

[pirho123]

Oh really ? So you collect reps to wear around your house ? Now that is fascinating.

I not wear them, only collect. I have gen Pam, but don't want to buy more, because its not the product with fair price. 111n is looks just like my gen and costs 15 times cheaper

 

[TESLA760]

QC Flaws ? How can you tell bezel tightness on QC ?

 

[pirho123]

QC Flaws ? How can you tell bezel tightness on QC ?

Can't dealer check a watch before sending? Check bezel, movement, etc. Why Stainhart can do it for $500 and Chinese dealers can't??

 

[mysterio]

I not wear them, only collect. I have gen Pam, but don't want to buy more, because its not the product with fair price. 111n is looks just like my gen and costs 15 times cheaper

So you collect them, and? What exactly do you do with the reps?

Can't dealer check a watch before sending? Check bezel, movement, etc. Why Stainhart can do it for $500 and Chinese dealers can't??

You seem to obsess about Steinhard's vaunted QC. They sure are perfect. Oh wait...

Steinhart One picture

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Well my Steinhart Ocean 2 came in today and unfortunately it has to go back.

After the watches were shipped out someone on WUS noticed that the numbers on the bezel insert dont line up with the notches on the edge of the bezel itself. Steinhart, replying to the post answered by stating that some of the watches went out like this. They didnt think to tell their 2 watchmakers to line them up. One guy did, the other didnt. I kept my fingers crossed as it made its way across the ocean but unfortunately I got one of the bad ones.

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Steinhart's QC isn't very good - my Aviation had a tiny hair stuck on the inside of the crystal

And there's more.

I didn't make these up, these posts came from gen forums.

Is Steinhart a good company? Sure. Are their watches any good? For some, certainly. Were the reported issues intentional? I hope it wasn't. So are they perfect? No, they aren't.

I quote once again

Mistakes happen. I know it always sucks when we are anticipating a new watch and it comes in messed up, but no one or no company is perfect.

and that's exactly what happened here as well. It wasn't intentional. Not everyone got a bum watch. If you got one, unfortunately, like daevildog, then he is within his rights to complain about it.

There are dealers who may do the QC personally, but with large operations, you can't expect that of all dealers. You can't be the one getting the order details, arranging the payment, going to the watch market to get it, take QC pics, have it regulated, conduct waterproofing, arrange with a courier to send it to the customer and then on top of that (in Angus' case), talk to the makers on what watches to produce. Don't even think about having a normal life after all of that. It simply isn't done.

 

[pirho123]

So you collect them, and? What exactly do you do with the reps?



You seem to obsess about Steinhard's vaunted QC. They sure are perfect. Oh wait...

Steinhart One picture

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And there's more.

I didn't make these up, these posts came from gen forums.

Is Steinhart a good company? Sure. Are their watches any good? For some, certainly. Were the reported issues intentional? I hope it wasn't. So are they perfect? No, they aren't.

I quote once again

and that's exactly what happened here as well. It wasn't intentional. Not everyone got a bum watch. If you got one, unfortunately, like daevildog, then he is within his rights to complain about it.

There are dealers who may do the QC personally, but with large operations, you can't expect that of all dealers. You can't be the one getting the order details, arranging the payment, going to the watch market to get it, take QC pics, have it regulated, conduct waterproofing, arrange with a courier to send it to the customer and then on top of that (in Angus' case), talk to the makers on what watches to produce. Don't even think about having a normal life after all of that. It simply isn't done.

How many QC issues has Steinhart? 1%, 0.1%? And chinese dealers??

Its only a business. Bad QC - bad profit.

You pay $500 and have no simple QC? Is it a good deal? I don't think so.

 

[pirho123]

So you collect them, and? What exactly do you do with the reps?


I do not wear watches with big flaws. Its like a drive old toyota with BMW logo on it.
But some reps like a V6 and 111n are good watches and them dont look like cheap crap.

 

[mysterio]

How many QC issues has Steinhart? 1%, 0.1%? And chinese dealers??

You wouldn't care about the percentages if it happened to you, now would you?

Its only a business. Bad QC - bad profit.

Yeah, I guess everyone not posting how bad their watch is indicates how bad QC is.

You pay $500 and have no simple QC? Is it a good deal? I don't think so.

You pay 500$ for a watch that is 95% of the same watch that costs 30K$ and get QC pictures (eh, simple QC?) to approve before the watch even gets shipped? Is it a good deal? Hell yeah.

So you collect them, and? What exactly do you do with the reps?

I do not wear watches with big flaws. Its like a drive old toyota with BMW logo on it.
But some reps like a V6 and 111n are good watches and them dont look like cheap crap.

So you won't be buying the PAM382 then, being the expert on big flaws and cheap crap.

 

[pirho123]

You wouldn't care about the percentages if it happened to you, now would you?



Yeah, I guess everyone not posting how bad their watch is indicates how bad QC is.


You pay 500$ for a watch that is 95% of the same watch that costs 30K$ and get QC pictures (eh, simple QC?) to approve before the watch even gets shipped? Is it a good deal? Hell yeah.



So you won't be buying the PAM382 then, being the expert on big flaws and cheap crap.

You really think that it 95% of 30k watch? It may be 10% not more: movement, case - all is not the same))) it only has same dimensions and looks like a gen. You get what you pay, not more. But - in this case with pam 382 - you get less that you pay.

 

[TESLA760]

Some folks have lost their mind

 

[mysterio]

Some folks have lost their mind

Indeed.

 

[d4m.test]

This is my trusted PAM 193 toolwatch. A solid, chunky, rugged "Tuna-can". Everything on this rep is solid and functional. The bezel sits tight and the unidirectional bezel has 120 smooth clicks. It´s a joy to turn, cg-lever and crown work fine. The backcase engravings are deeply cut and well done. As the depth-gauge is not functional and doubles as a fully working GMT it´s not considered a super-rep. The lume on this looks fantastic as all numbers and dots are lumed but it wears off very quickly - weak rep-lume.
But that´s not the point - this is perfectly well aligned and assembled and You feel it on the wrist and when working with it. It´s a hefty quality-built - this costs 60% less than the Bronzo as its only 195 grams stainless steel. When the movement winds it´s a joy to listen to the whirrrring on this "cheap" watch. For the looks and the uniqueness of it I would love to go for the Bronzo but it would simply be good to know beforehand it´s as well built as this for more than double the price, that´s all. Btw this is a rep - not a gen - but it´s fine, somehow its on a "Steinhart"-level as that's the other fav around here.
And somehow I simply can´t believe that the Bronzo is much different or more complicated to assemble than this, in my eyes it´s the same, even simpler but I´m just a layman and know nothing anyway. Please enjoy some pics of another submersible in simple steel.

Matter of turning the bezel one more click to the left on this pic...

 

[pirho123]

This is my trusted PAM 193 toolwatch. A solid, chunky, rugged "Tuna-can". Everything on this rep is solid and functional. The bezel sits tight and the unidirectional bezel has 120 smooth clicks. It´s a joy to turn, cg-lever and crown work fine. The backcase engravings are deeply cut and well done. As the depth-gauge is not functional and doubles as a fully working GMT it´s not considered a super-rep. The lume on this looks fantastic as all numbers and dots are lumed but it wears off very quickly - weak rep-lume.
But that´s not the point - this is perfectly well aligned and assembled and You feel it on the wrist and when working with it. It´s a hefty quality-built - this costs 60% less than the Bronzo as its only 195 grams stainless steel. When the movement winds it´s a joy to listen to the whirrrring on this "cheap" watch. For the looks and the uniqueness of it I would love to go for the Bronzo but it would simply be good to know beforehand it´s as well built as this for more than double the price, that´s all. Btw this is a rep - not a gen - but it´s fine, somehow its on a "Steinhart"-level as that's the other fav around here.
And somehow I simply can´t believe that the Bronzo is much different or more complicated to assemble than this, in my eyes it´s the same, even simpler but I´m just a layman and know nothing anyway. Please enjoy some pics of another submersible in simple steel.

Matter of turning the bezel one more click to the left on this pic...

Thanks! That's what I'm talking about. Quality.

 

[ganlinia]

i have mine since 4/2, probably the first few who received right after the release. had it for more than a week & patina is developing beautifully.

all i can tell you... solid bezel rotation, well aligned markers, improved crystal, etc. etc. only problem i have is the usual uneven-lumed pearl, but i can live with that. it's worth every penny that i've paid.

for you bashers, did you order one? have you even seen a 382 from ZF in person? let's see some criticisms only from first hand experiences instead of irresponsible internet accusations.

 

[yngchrn]

i have mine since 4/2, probably the first few who received right after the release. had it for more than a week & patina is developing beautifully.

all i can tell you... solid bezel rotation, well aligned markers, improved crystal, etc. etc. only problem i have is the usual uneven-lumed pearl, but i can live with that. it's worth every penny that i've paid.

for you bashers, did you order one? have you even seen a 382 from ZF in person? let's see some criticisms only from first hand experiences instead of irresponsible internet accusations.

+1

 

[Virpag]

You really think that it 95% of 30k watch? It may be 10% not more: movement, case - all is not the same))) it only has same dimensions and looks like a gen. You get what you pay, not more. But - in this case with pam 382 - you get less that you pay.

you should pick up a different hobby collect baseball cards or barbie dolls because you are making a big ass out of yourself with the comments anyone who is on these boards are after one thing a good copy of a watch that is basically out of reach for most. That is why B&R are not rep'ed since they are somewhat affordable. Is my 382 perfect no some minor problems but i would rather deal with that and wear it every day and keep my gen pans in storage since they will only make me money in the future the reps don't and buy them and not wear them is stupid completely idiotic and waste of time. Steinheart are basically a glorified german copy of Laco and other original WW2 watch makers worn by pilots

 

[pirho123]

you should pick up a different hobby collect baseball cards or barbie dolls because you are making a big ass out of yourself with the comments anyone who is on these boards are after one thing a good copy of a watch that is basically out of reach for most. That is why B&R are not rep'ed since they are somewhat affordable. Is my 382 perfect no some minor problems but i would rather deal with that and wear it every day and keep my gen pans in storage since they will only make me money in the future the reps don't and buy them and not wear them is stupid completely idiotic and waste of time. Steinheart are basically a glorified german copy of Laco and other original WW2 watch makers worn by pilots

Am I asked for your advices? Definitely no.
You should read and know more.
BR are copied, even $200 Tissots are copied...
And Steinhart even produces its own calibers.

So wear your 382 with minor problems and be happy

 

[Virpag]

Am I asked for your advices? Definitely no.
You should read and know more.
BR are copied, even $200 Tissots are copied...
And Steinhart even produces its own calibers.

So wear your 382 with minor problems and be happy

Your the one who started the conversation with the statement

 

[ddc]

I second that. No way in hell will people spot your rep. Comparing a 500 rep and 30k gen pc is just stupid. If there is too much disappointment, get out of the rep game and save up and buy gens.

What he means is that our APs seconds @12 are far for perfect reps also being around 500 bucks.