Dead black bay v4

[Maron]

Slight bit of rotor movement is normal.

And yes that is a seagull clone you got there....

and for the tip...... set a washcloth over your case holder next time you use it to prevent scratches, i learned the hard way too !

Great tip thanks! Now I'm going to read up on seagull clone, is that the same thing as a 28 24? I'm going to take a look in the movement section

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[Maron]

I can order you a brand new ETA 2824 from StarTime for $180 plus shipping.

That is very generous thank you Rob!

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[Maron]

Very simple fix. Get an ETA 2824-2 and remove those two screwed tabs that are holding the movement on to the movement holder. Remove the stem from the watch. That point the movement will come out. There are two little clips that go into the movement on the sides and hide they are holding the dial on. Problem you will have are the hands. You need a hands removing tool or you can get them off with wax paper and two small screw drivers. But you will need a hands press or hand tools to put the hands back in. A Real Tudor Blackbay has an ETA 2824 in it. It is just decorated by tudor. As of this year that will stop. They are going to in house movements.

Once the hands are off the dial will fall out if you pulled the two small clips.

Put it on dial paper so you don't scratch the dial.

Secure the hands.

Now take your Gen ETA 2824 and remove the date wheel. Very easy. Get tweeters and you can see a small click where the date wheel is held on. I align the teeth by pulling a little to the right and when the teeth are aligned pull up slowly and the date wheel comes off.

Take your new ETA put the stem and crown in. Align and put dial on. Push clips in to secure dial. Here you will have a problem if you don't have hand tools. Press the hour hand on the first pinion. It will slide in. Same with the min hand. The seconds hand you will need a loop. There is a very small hole that the second hand goes into. Once you align the hole and the hand use a pushing tool of the hand set and it till enter. Make sure your hands are not rubbing on the dial or into each other after each application of a hand.

That point remove the stem and make sure your dial is clean and no dust and same with your case. Compressed air works wonders. Put the movement back into the movement holder and realign the stem and insert and test everything. Once everything is good. Secure the movement to the movement holder. Re lube the rubber seal and close the watch.

Done.

This is a goldmine of info, thanks Rob. I originally was going to send this to a modder and pay $300 to have a swiss put in. But I really would like to learn to do it myself. I'm very interested in becoming more proficient with watch repair skills.

Could you elaborate on why an h4 cp can not be used in this case?

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[Maron]

H4, not HP... geez.. what was I thinking

Hmm I may need hp sauce for after the watch is fixed though . Mmmmm

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[Maron]

Yep! Super simple, I just did it. And there are a mountain of YouTube videos for the 2824, so that'll help tremendously! You'll be fine mate. If you're still not sure, I'm sure some members will do it for you[emoji1303] but it's super quick, and simple! It's like a bandaid.. Sort of?


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You've inspired me buddy

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[Maron]

Ok so maybe someone can answer me this:

If clone movements in our reps are so inconsistent with their assembly, oiling, cleanliness. When we buy a rep with a clone movement there is the possibility of it being DOA or dying after 1 week like in my case.

Why on earth would I install another clone movement that has the same risk of dying? Or are the brand new cline movement off an online supplier better than those installed by the rep factories? Or are there varying degrees of quality clones that can be sourced?

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[Maron]

Ok so if I'm going to undertake this job I'm going to need :

A) a movement
B) tools to do the job

Perhaps you all can help me make a list of tools and suggest a source for them. So far I need:

-hand removal tools
-rodico
-silicone grease for gaskets
-air puffer
-case back removal tools (I got it off with the kitchen glove but I'd like to secure it properly afterwards)
-movement holder?
-compressed air
-rubber finger cots


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[MSAMatt]

Ok so maybe someone can answer me this:

If clone movements in our reps are so inconsistent with their assembly, oiling, cleanliness. When we buy a rep with a clone movement there is the possibility of it being DOA or dying after 1 week like in my case.

Why on earth would I install another clone movement that has the same risk of dying? Or are the brand new cline movement off an online supplier better than those installed by the rep factories? Or are there varying degrees of quality clones that can be sourced?

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it truly is a crapshoot, sometimes even with swiss eta's based on age and if still using all swiss parts. servicing by a competent watchmaker is the best way to get life out of a clone movement. if it were me, and I liked the watch enough i'd buy a new gen swiss eta (you can get them with the h4 "high" cannon pinion from BK for 290 shipped to your door).

 

[FiloViridae]

Yep! You'd need the movement. I switched over the pinion from the rep. It was simple. When the time comes, I can help you via PM or whatever.

You'll need: I linked the stuff I have purchased for my tools! I use amazon because I have prime. But it's just so you can see them!

-puffer (5-10 bucks off amazon)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000L9OIQC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_iPW0wb5YR91SK

-case ball remover is what I use. But a case back remover might be better.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0058EDAUA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_KRW0wbBEG5ZY3

-movement holder, I got the metal one. (14 bucks off amazon, it's a two set. You don't need both, but it'll get you ready for a lot!) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005URKHY2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_4LW0wbF4PZQ5Y

-PLASTIC tweezers (Amazon, 6 bucks) www.amazon.com/dp/B00AF5RC0G/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_yQW0wbTS84NKZ

-hand setter (mine was about 20, came with the hand remover)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BU0MWAA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_mTW0wb8SMJRKZ

-finger cots or gloves. I prefer powder free nitrile gloves.

-Silicon grease
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00S7MKIDW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_mOW0wb1TCC8FR

-rodico
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008YMGYBU/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_nNW0wbF8JCP6V

That should be about it!


And it is a draw with the clones. I like them mostly, but every once I have had, I have now switched all my movements over. Working on switching my new Sub. Just have to figure out what movement to go with..


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[Maron]

Yep! You'd need the movement. I switched over the pinion from the rep. It was simple. When the time comes, I can help you via PM or whatever.

You'll need: I linked the stuff I have purchased for my tools! I use amazon because I have prime. But it's just so you can see them!

-puffer (5-10 bucks off amazon)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000L9OIQC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_iPW0wb5YR91SK

-case ball remover is what I use. But a case back remover might be better.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0058EDAUA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_KRW0wbBEG5ZY3

-movement holder, I got the metal one. (14 bucks off amazon, it's a two set. You don't need both, but it'll get you ready for a lot!) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005URKHY2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_4LW0wbF4PZQ5Y

-PLASTIC tweezers (Amazon, 6 bucks) www.amazon.com/dp/B00AF5RC0G/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_yQW0wbTS84NKZ

-hand setter (mine was about 20, came with the hand remover)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BU0MWAA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_mTW0wb8SMJRKZ

-finger cots or gloves. I prefer powder free nitrile gloves.

-Silicon grease
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00S7MKIDW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_mOW0wb1TCC8FR

-rodico
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008YMGYBU/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_nNW0wbF8JCP6V

That should be about it!


And it is a draw with the clones. I like them mostly, but every once I have had, I have now switched all my movements over. Working on switching my new Sub. Just have to figure out what movement to go with..


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Thanks man! Appreciate all the help. Looks like this is going to turn into a project. Which I'm sure in the end will be very rewarding. Any advice on which tools is best to go swiss? The screwdrivers in my kit are very poor.

I've also got a couple loupe and a work light/magnifier

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[chris3007]

Please please please, don't use that crap tools from Amazon. If you want do serious work at a watch movement you need serious tools. Especially with Chinese watches and movements.
Bergeon or Beco tools is the way to go.



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[Maron]

Please please please, don't use that crap tools from Amazon. If you want do serious work at a watch movement you need serious tools. Especially with Chinese watches and movements.
Bergeon or Beco tools is the way to go.



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Yeah i know. My wife got me a small kit off ebay/amazon and the tools are very cheap. I worry even using the screwdrivers to size a bracelet. Problem is swiss tools are big $$$. So I need to make sure I'm getting the right ones. I know I'll be using them for years to come though so I'm ok spending some money

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[chris3007]

You can start with that tools.

These "basic" tools is all you need for a movement swap.

Bergeon screwdriver size 120 and 140

A tweezers

Movement holder

Hand removing tools

Dial protection

Hands press




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[Maron]

You can start with that tools.

These "basic" tools is all you need for a movement swap.

Bergeon screwdriver size 120 and 140

A tweezers

Movement holder

Hand removing tools

Dial protection

Hands press




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Ok I'll look into that. What's a good site for ordering in North america (canada)?

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[ItalianSub]

Chris-- Any reason to use the hand removing tools you show vs the spring loaded ones? Or will either work well?


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[ItalianSub]

Maron - I just ordered off esslinger.com order came fast and good prices


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[occb2]

Again I can order tools from startime. Understand that they are a lot of money but like others say. You get what you pay for.


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[chris3007]

Chris-- Any reason to use the hand removing tools you show vs the spring loaded ones? Or will either work well?


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That's just a personal thing. I prefer these hand tools, but there is not really a reason.


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[FiloViridae]

Oh see, I was just linking some tools, as they are cheap and replaceable, I figured as someone who wasn't sure if they wanted to work on watches, are unsure what to spend. Why spend a hundred or so to just sit in the drawer. If you decide to continue, then upgrade! It's what I did for tools, and it worked perfectly.


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[d4m.test]

Indian copies of Bergeon tools are fine to go for my layman needs - that don´t go beyond removing a rotor or swapping a movement/ mounting another dial. It´s what an Indian watchsmith in India would use, they are better than Chinese ones and cost 1/10th or 1/20th of what Bergeon (over-)charges.

Just my opinion. Once You start servicing movements etc. it´s something else.