Clean Factory New Submariner Series Review (Incl. Comparison Pics vs Gen)

[mech500]

I'm not offended but what's the point of forum if we not share what's currently going in the market? It is because we talk about certain topics that we got improvements and changes.

Agree on the point of the forum.

It’s taken 10years of moaning about rep flaws the forum to get this far....so not sure how much influence we have on the factories.

If factories have decided on a v1 , 2, 3, 4 etc sales strategy, then we can moan all we want about the CGs or whatever (to the TD or ourselves) but we’re not telling master copiers what they don’t already know.

Angus once said that the forums represent something like 5% of factory sales...the rest go to the international market.....who don’t care about the minuscule flaws that some kid on here Has spotted whilst staring at gen pics in his mums basement.

 

[muiramas]

...who don’t care about the minuscule flaws that some kid on here Has spotted whilst staring at gen pics in his mums basement.

So much derogatory bullshit around here lately. Saying there is a flaw does not mean the person that said it is a kid in their mum’s basement.

 

[mech500]

So much derogatory bullshit around here lately. Saying there is a flaw does not mean the person that said it is a kid in their mum’s basement.

True. Nothing wrong with saying there is a flaw etc, these are reps not gen. reps will never be gen.

It’s just a bit weird that a grown man went well out of his way to discover the minuscule flaw in the first place, by staring at macro gen pics for days. It’s almost as if they want to hate their reps.

 

[Jayalvin777]

True. Nothing wrong with saying there is a flaw etc, these are reps not gen. reps will never be gen.

It’s just a bit weird that a grown man went well out of his way to discover the minuscule flaw in the first place, by staring at macro gen pics for days. It’s almost as if they want to hate their reps.

The international market might not be the biggest market but it does has a great impact on the local sales. Why do you think vsf wrote in their press releases that their subs were high regarded on foreign forums? This factory bosses are no fools, they paying attention. Reps will always be reps but point out flaws doesn't mean we against them. For example the new cleam gmt's have some stupid flaws that you don't even need to look pictures of gens to point them out. If you don't want to hear about the flaws of reps you can stay on the pictorial threads.

 

[RetFed]

The international market might not be the biggest market but it does has a great impact on the local sales. Why do you think vsf wrote in their press releases that their subs were high regarded on foreign forums? This factory bosses are no fools, they paying attention. Reps will always be reps but point out flaws doesn't mean we against them. For example the new cleam gmt's have some stupid flaws that you don't even need to look pictures of gens to point them out. If you don't want to hear about the flaws of reps you can stay on the pictorial threads.

Why do you have such hatred of Clean? Enough already, give it a rest!


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[mnkoshka]

VSF did start out with a banger but someone paved the way for them. Theses factories are so damn close now that a company can pop and start from a good point without the ground work.

There will always be versions and improvements, it’s called product evolution. Sometimes it’s a planned course or just as a company evolves and how it invests its profits in newer better technology, tooling and process. Every version we buy hopefully contributes to this process and it’s why we are where we are today.

I think for what we pay to obtain these watches is not too bad. People don’t realise how much actual work goes into manufacturing these watches or any watch in fact especially with tolerances so close that we can actually fit the genuine parts to them.


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[Jayalvin777]

Why do you have such hatred of Clean? Enough already, give it a rest!


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I'm merely bring the information to people's attention and what i shared earlier is relevant because there was legit a member that got a clean factory watch with a fake vsf bracelet.

 

[RetFed]

I'm merely bring the information to people's attention and what i shared earlier is relevant because there was legit a member that got a clean factory watch with a fake vsf bracelet.

Why would anyone want a VSF bracelet? I think they feel cheap, not even close to the quality of an ARF bracelet. But thank you for explaining????


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[Jayalvin777]

Why would anyone want a VSF bracelet? I think they feel cheap, not even close to the quality of an ARF bracelet. But thank you for explaining????


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Simply because before the raids vsf was the most sold sub rep, vsf name and reputation means sales. Before whem vsf was workimg full power this thread was basically dead, no ome rrally buying clean subs. . If they're doing bootleg bracelets i wondering if theh actually stilk using arf bracelets and that's what muimaras pointed out, cuz their past nothing is safe this factory. I'm gonna headed out seems clean owners are too sensitive.

 

[RetFed]

Simply because before the raids vsf was the most sold sub rep, vsf name and reputation means sales. Before whem vsf was workimg full power this thread was basically dead, no ome rrally buying clean subs. . If they're doing bootleg bracelets i wondering if theh actually stilk using arf bracelets and that's what muimaras pointed out, cuz their past nothing is safe this factory. I'm gonna headed out seems clean owners are too sensitive.

I think that’s a good plan at this stage


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[muiramas]

True. Nothing wrong with saying there is a flaw etc, these are reps not gen. reps will never be gen.

And no one is saying they will be. But the cost to make most of these changes - a thicker rim on a bezel, a thinner lug, a different taper etc. Is zero. Its an observational fault, so getting it right is nothing to do with cost and everything to do with attention to detail.

It’s just a bit weird that a grown man went well out of his way to discover the minuscule flaw in the first place, by staring at macro gen pics for days. It’s almost as if they want to hate their reps.

Theres that derogatory bullshit again. Many of these flaws are quite obvious and don’t require ‘grown men’ or ‘kids in basements’ looking at ‘macro gen pics for days’.

 

[drdds]

Here is what I have to say. Perhaps this might be random for some or many, but lately so called “trusted” dealers are lying about their QC and true status with factory. TD claimed that the new CF subs are “updated” from crown, lumes, case…etc. They are all bullshit. I got one several months ago and recently got another after he had promised that things are “updated/upgraded” …well guess what, the 114060 and the 116010 are basically the same exact crap. Despite asking the QC lady to verified my specific concern, she would tell you they are all fine and that “everything looks really good”…the lume is still PINK, and bezel is like a cheap low quality toy with backplay and loose to name a few. CG is still straight as before. Be warned, In the end you are paying for the exact same watch that had disappointed you in the first place, except this time you might be angry because they flat out lied. I am NEVER touching another CF crap again. Not so long ago, their so called 904L was really 316. What a track record.

I don’t know if some members here are getting incentives to keep these type of stories from spreading as it will hurt their rep market(wouldn’t all be surprising if so called members are just really dealers themselves) BUT REMEMBER…the reason why rep has improved so much in recent year is becuz of competition and honest blunt feedbacks from members like myself. Someone have to speak up so TD and factory will not continue to scam us.

I know 100% someone here will go against what I just said…soo used to it. I would be more surprise to see someone agreeing to it.

 

[mech500]

Many of these flaws are quite obvious and don’t require ‘grown men’ or ‘kids in basements’ looking at ‘macro gen pics for days’.

I have to respectfully disagree.

I wouldn’t say many flaws are obvious in 2021. Certainly not to typical experienced gen and rep buyers like myself. You have to go out your way to find issues by comparing with gen Marco pics. I just enjoy reps for what they are and some want to find ways to hate reps. Nothing wrong with that either.

But Let’s face it, Nobody knew about most of these minuscule flaws until someone went out their way and did a macro comparison using gen pics and super imposing them on rep pics and now Everyone is saying it’s “obvious” and you’ll get called out in a meeting if you’re pointing at a piece of paper. Just makes me laugh.

 

[mech500]

Many of these flaws are quite obvious and don’t require ‘grown men’ or ‘kids in basements’ looking at ‘macro gen pics for days’.

I wouldn’t say many flaws are obvious in 2021. Certainly not to typical experienced gen and rep buyers like myself. You have to go out your way to find issues by comparing with gen Marco pics. I just enjoy reps for what they are and some want to find ways to hate reps. Nothing wrong with that either.

But Let’s face it, Nobody knew about most of these minuscule flaws until someone went out their way and did a macro comparison using gen pics and super imposing them on rep pics and now Everyone is saying it’s “obvious” and you’ll get called out in a meeting if you’re pointing at a piece of paper. Just makes me laugh.

 

[MtnMover]

Be warned, In the end you are paying for the exact same watch that had disappointed you in the first place, except this time you might be angry because they flat out lied. I am NEVER touching another CF crap again.

Sounds like junk, did the TD honor warranty for yours and accept a return? Did you post a thread or review with pictures to get some accountability?

Seems like vastly different product compared to the pics seen in this thread?

 

[drdds]

Sounds like junk, did the TD honor warranty for yours and accept a return? Did you post a thread or review with pictures to get some accountability?

Seems like vastly different product compared to the pics seen in this thread?

I don’t bother with the whole warranty thing because, as you know, they will just make you spend MORE money shipping it back, lots of of crap/junk quality are not detectable UNTIL you remove all wrapping and once those are off…goodbye return per their policy HAHAHA. This is why it always take someone taking-hit-for-the-team here and our community will (hopefully share the info) yet lately I have noticed some members are just turning a blind eye.

yeah the pictures are NOTHING like the actual thing u will get. I got the first batch and now got the so called “updated/upgraded” batch and it is THE EXACT nasty shit! I MEAN…WTFFF pink lumes??? I don’t care about anything else but PINK lumes/marker. Unless a person is very impulsive with their spending, I don’t see why anyone would not care about these nasty qualities and outright lies from the TD that posted this thread.

keep this in mind, at RWI we might be “experts” at these QC features, either macro or micro….forums still make up a smal small percentage of the overall market. The market in China alone will get those TD and factories rich and stomach full…in other words, they don’t care what forum gotta say. We are just paying 3-5x more hahaha.

Best thing we could do for each other here is to inform which factory to avoid until they ACTUALLY fixed it without the LIES!

 

[Fedon06]

random clean shot.. lol

 

[muiramas]

I have to respectfully disagree.

I wouldn’t say many flaws are obvious in 2021. Certainly not to typical experienced gen and rep buyers like myself. You have to go out your way to find issues by comparing with gen Marco pics. I just enjoy reps for what they are and some want to find ways to hate reps.

I respectfully disagree back.

I know your view is ‘gen is gen but rep is close enough’ its the one thing your reviews all have in common. And I remember you getting flamed for it in the AP section.

Take the crystal on the CF - no one who has a gen, or knows a gen is going to believe its real - and thats from a few feet away. Other things like a poorly finished bracelet make a difference to the wearer. You don’t have to go out of your way to notice any of these.

If you have a low threshold to these things or a low attention to detail it doesn’t mean everyone else has.

Furthermore, saying flaws are acceptable because most people won’t know is a rather strange pitch for the CF, but I guess theres no other option. To most here the goal is to get a rep as close as possible to the real thing rather than getting 80% there and then pleading ignorance or demonstrating some wierd factory tribalism by saying its good enough.

 

[Fedon06]

I respectfully disagree back.

I know your view is ‘gen is gen but rep is close enough’ its the one thing your reviews all have in common. And I remember you getting flamed for it in the AP section.

Take the crystal on the CF - no one who has a gen, or knows a gen is going to believe its real - and thats from a few feet away. Other things like a poorly finished bracelet make a difference to the wearer. You don’t have to go out of your way to notice any of these.

If you have a low threshold to these things or a low attention to detail it doesn’t mean everyone else has.

Furthermore, saying flaws are acceptable because most people won’t know is a rather strange pitch for the CF, but I guess theres no other option. To most here the goal is to get a rep as close as possible to the real thing rather than getting 80% there and then pleading ignorance or demonstrating some wierd factory tribalism by saying its good enough.

hey bud, regarding the crystal, can you open it a bit? How is the gen crystal and in what way it differs from these reps (like Clean)

do you mean how they reflect light or how clear are they?

I dont mean no offense, I’m just a newbie in repworld and all crystals seem same to me if there is no dirt dust etc. just trying to learn. I have a Clean no date and crystal looks nice but I dont know how to “look” at a crystal abd compare it to gen

 

[Kalev007]

hey bud, regarding the crystal, can you open it a bit? How is the gen crystal and in what way it differs from these reps (like Clean)

do you mean how they reflect light or how clear are they?

I dont mean no offense, I’m just a newbie in repworld and all crystals seem same to me if there is no dirt dust etc. just trying to learn. I have a Clean no date and crystal looks nice but I dont know how to “look” at a crystal abd compare it to gen

Actually after frankening CF no date I thought the first thing you should do is swap a gen crystal. That alone adds such a difference and gen like feel. Rest can be done later if at all and perhaps the insert. If I get a new one that will be the first thing I’ll do and its good to go in most part.

Gen crystal is so much clearer and finer.

CF crystal is foggy and has as some one said those ghost reflections all over.