ARF vs VRF - GMT II 116710LN (clone 3186) - GAMECHANGING BATTLE.

[mega12]

Off topic:
what shall I put on today. GMT or Sub

 

[srhoque]

Off topic:
what shall I put on today. GMT or Sub

GMT on one hand, sub on other!!

 

[Dissemination]

GMT on one hand, sub on other!!

mega12 and I'll help wear what doesn't fit on both of your arms. You know... because camaraderie and such ;p

 

[ginopino]

mega12 the blue sub with jubilee!!!!

 

[occb2]

Ok. So today I had time when I got home to mess around with the 116610LN that I built.

I took the ARF crystal ring off and replaced it with a new rolex crystal ring. I also put on a full rolex bezel assembly, click spring and spacer. Came out great on the VRF case.

I do have to question the VRF on it being 904L. Man is that case a scratch magnet. Never the less when I am done I will take it apart and polish it.

The ARF 3186 still running great but found what the problem is. The click spring isn't broken. It is on the min wheel fine. It's the little gear on the top that has the star gear on the bottom. That is completely not working. I have a new real rolex min gear and spring. I was just told that the gear is in. So I will try to go pick it up. Maybe this weekend. Then I will service that. I can see that I need a bunch of real rolex parts. The ARF SH3186 is not the best quality. The date plate is good but there are bends on the top like if it were pushed down so the pinion would fit in the jewel. Odd.

Lastly on the VR3185 I changed the part 3185 660 and finish dialing it in. Got it freaking running amazing. So I will be putting that sucker in the 116610LN. I would had finished the build today but like I had said I screeched the dial so I am leaving it for now disassembled until I get the new dial. Here are a few pics.

One will be the real crystal ring compared to the ARF. You can see the machining and finish is different and so is the location of where the hytrel ring fits in. I would guess that was why I couldn't put the spacer ring on the from the ARF bezel.

The other will be how great the VRF 3185 is running! Dialed it in. In 3 of 6 positions it runs between -1 to +1 zero beat error. Best result in a service of a rep rolex movement I ever got. Im happy. LOL.

 

[occb2]

I know that this has probably been posted already. There are a lot of great members here doing amazing stuff with their VRF/ARF GMT's. I will give you MY finial opinion.

Neither is good out of the box. If you want a reliable GMT rep get the noob with the ICHS replace crystal and maybe insert and call it a day.

For all the crazy guys like me here it goes.....

Buy both the ARF and the VRF 116610.

Out of the ARF really the only good things are, case, bezel assembly, band, hands. So you could in theory just change the insert. If you keep the ARF case a real crystal presses fine and everything lines up. This would be my pic if I had a noob built 116710 that you want to transfer everything to. So if you have a noob built with a yuki 3185 with a real crystal and insert the ARF has the best bracelet and bezel assembly and case is nice. You are use to using tabs already so the whole transfer will be simple. Again. ARF good points are, case, bezel assembly, bracelet and the hands are nicer.

Out of the VRF. The movement, Case (although I question it being 904L) I got major scratches on it wearing it only for a few weeks. The ARF bracelet is still great and not anywhere close to scratches the case has. Not a problem, I will polish the case when I am finished. Dial. The VRF dial is a lot nicer font print. Same with the lum markers. Very well done. That is about it. LOL.

So my final build for the 116710LN will be.

Rolex 116710LN green SL dial (Used)
Rolex 116710LN SL hands (Used)
Rolex 116710-c1 crystal ring (New)
Rolex B25-295-CAR-C1 (New)
Rolex 116710LN full bezel assembly with click spring and spacer (Used)
Rolex Date wheel (Used)
VRF 126710 case. LOL
VRF 3185 movement serviced. Changed part 3185 660, also put in a new rolex mainspring and barrel and I had to change the reversing wheels on the automatic winding bridge. One was broken and I had 2 extra anyway so I just put both in.
ARF 78200 bracelet and clasp. Amazing quality. Compared to the VRF which isn't "BAD" but the finish and feeling and clasp is so much more rolexish than the VRF. I have 3 VRF GMTs and all 3 the band is stiff and clasp are stiff. One, the last link by the clasp is so tight.
ARF Crown. Both the ARF and the VRF crowns are amazing. I do not see a need to replace with a real one. I have 704's I just done see a difference.

That will be my final build. I will post pics when the dial and hands come in. The first dial I use was CL blue as are the hands. I will keep them all for now. I may do my batman and use those hands and just use the VRF or ARF Batman GMT hand. I just need to find a freaking bezel for the batman!

 

[Dissemination]

Ok. So today I had time when I got home to mess around with the 116610LN that I built.

I took the ARF crystal ring off and replaced it with a new rolex crystal ring. I also put on a full rolex bezel assembly, click spring and spacer. Came out great on the VRF case.

I do have to question the VRF on it being 904L. Man is that case a scratch magnet. Never the less when I am done I will take it apart and polish it.

The ARF 3186 still running great but found what the problem is. The click spring isn't broken. It is on the min wheel fine. It's the little gear on the top that has the star gear on the bottom. That is completely not working. I have a new real rolex min gear and spring. I was just told that the gear is in. So I will try to go pick it up. Maybe this weekend. Then I will service that. I can see that I need a bunch of real rolex parts. The ARF SH3186 is not the best quality. The date plate is good but there are bends on the top like if it were pushed down so the pinion would fit in the jewel. Odd.

Lastly on the VR3185 I changed the part 3185 660 and finish dialing it in. Got it freaking running amazing. So I will be putting that sucker in the 116610LN. I would had finished the build today but like I had said I screeched the dial so I am leaving it for now disassembled until I get the new dial. Here are a few pics.

One will be the real crystal ring compared to the ARF. You can see the machining and finish is different and so is the location of where the hytrel ring fits in. I would guess that was why I couldn't put the spacer ring on the from the ARF bezel.

The other will be how great the VRF 3185 is running! Dialed it in. In 3 of 6 positions it runs between -1 to +1 zero beat error. Best result in a service of a rep rolex movement I ever got. Im happy. LOL.

Thanks for the invaluable insight, as always. Are these the parts you're recommending upgrading for the SH3186?

3186-260
3186-657
3186-665

You said you can see that the SH3186 needs a bunch of real rolex parts- any particular parts stand out to you?

 

[wNe]

You mean this? But is not for sale
Good luck finding one mate

 

[Cheeps]

You mean this? But is not for sale
Good luck finding one mate

Thanks for this comment.

 

[occb2]

You mean this? But is not for sale
Good luck finding one mate

I can get one. Just not willing to drop that much for one. I can buy the watch if I really wanted. LOL. Again I have more fun hunting things down and getting them at good timing. When in a rush is when I spend crazy amount of $$$$.

I did that in the start of this hobby. Now I hoard parts. I have so many freaking parts, cases, bands, dials, hands, movements. So now I take my time. One will pop up in my circle and I will get it.

When I do a batman build. I think the only real parts I will use is the insert and hands and date wheel. I need to see the ARF one when they put it out. I am hoping that the insert is passable.

I am not THAT much of a batman fan. I am a Sub guy. I do like GMT's but nothing beats a nice 16610! My go to watch.

 

[occb2]

Thanks for the invaluable insight, as always. Are these the parts you're recommending upgrading for the SH3186?

3186-260
3186-657
3186-665

You said you can see that the SH3186 needs a bunch of real rolex parts- any particular parts stand out to you?

On the one I have yes those are the part numbers. I would also replace the whole date plate along with the small cover. Also on mine I may change part 662, 183, 268. That is just on a visual after removing the date plate to see why my jumping hour hand failed.

The ARF 3186 is not the best yet. I think they rushed it because of the VR GMT movement. Understand that most of the movement, as in Rolex's movement, is a 3135. Hour wheels and min wheels and all the GMT parts and date plate and date corrector and secondary date wheel. All this at least on mine, work flawlessly, except the jumping hour hand. It never really worked well but with in a day or two it just crapped out. But understand this is MY movement. My first VRF that I service's wasn't keeping GMT time with the hour hand. Ended up being part 660. Now I have the VRF Batman keeping perfect GMT time and jumping hour works great. So it my be a case by case issue. You may be lucky and get a ARF GMT working great.

They did keep saying after CNY. They told me a day before VRF release theirs that they were releasing it after CNY. Then a buddy sent me a pic of the VRF GMT and I reached back out to my contact at ARF and he said he would get me one to do the comparison. So it could have been a thrown together one. LOL. But I did use their movement first due to the fact that the VRF one was not running so great and when adjusting 24 hours the GMT hand would lose time. The ARF one worked fine for the test period. I did see the dent and someone did mention the top gear on the min wheel top of the jumping hour mechanism.

Never the less. I will one of these weeks service the 3186. I will inspect each part. I am guessing it will just be the parts I mention above. I want at min. 3186 part numbers, 662,183,268. I already have 3186- 260,657, 665.

 

[Dissemination]

On the one I have yes those are the part numbers. I would also replace the whole date plate along with the small cover. Also on mine I may change part 662, 183, 268. That is just on a visual after removing the date plate to see why my jumping hour hand failed.

The ARF 3186 is not the best yet. I think they rushed it because of the VR GMT movement. Understand that most of the movement, as in Rolex's movement, is a 3135. Hour wheels and min wheels and all the GMT parts and date plate and date corrector and secondary date wheel. All this at least on mine, work flawlessly, except the jumping hour hand. It never really worked well but with in a day or two it just crapped out. But understand this is MY movement. My first VRF that I service's wasn't keeping GMT time with the hour hand. Ended up being part 660. Now I have the VRF Batman keeping perfect GMT time and jumping hour works great. So it my be a case by case issue. You may be lucky and get a ARF GMT working great.

They did keep saying after CNY. They told me a day before VRF release theirs that they were releasing it after CNY. Then a buddy sent me a pic of the VRF GMT and I reached back out to my contact at ARF and he said he would get me one to do the comparison. So it could have been a thrown together one. LOL. But I did use their movement first due to the fact that the VRF one was not running so great and when adjusting 24 hours the GMT hand would lose time. The ARF one worked fine for the test period. I did see the dent and someone did mention the top gear on the min wheel top of the jumping hour mechanism.

Never the less. I will one of these weeks service the 3186. I will inspect each part. I am guessing it will just be the parts I mention above. I want at min. 3186 part numbers, 662,183,268. I already have 3186- 260,657, 665.

I think I'm going to take some classes in watch making because this is fascinating. I'd love to be able to do this myself. But alas, so grateful there is this forum and people like you to learn from!

Let me know if my logic makes sense based on your findings:

Ive chosen to go with an ARF base because if I got the VRF, I would get the full bezel assembly vs insert only, and I would have got the ARF bracelet anyways. This will save me $500+ right off the bat. Plus I like the way the 3186 works compared to the 3185. And I am hoping the new batch of ARF have a little more TLC in their movement. I have almost all the visible gen parts now besides the actual watch. I just bought the 3186- 260, 657, 665 parts for the movement.

So from a cost perspective, based on the movement you have, it looks like a few hundred dollars extra of rolex parts need to be installed in the 3186 to be robust? As where the VRF just needed the 3185-660? If this is the case, I may just have my ARF movemement inspected, and if it needs all the extra parts you mentioned, I will sell the 260, 657, 665 parts I already have and just get a VR3185 and add the 3185-660.

So I suppose my main question is actually- based on the movements you received, is the VR3185 with 660 still going to be more robust than the SH3186 with 260, 657, 665, 662, 183, 268, etc.?

 

[mega12]

@occb2
Thanks for your comments and tear down as always. Highly appreciated

However, please bear in mind, that a lot of people here consider your words as „THE“ answer on many questions and therefore some things might be a bit misleading:
- your initial assumption that none of the movements is good oob so far / they have to develop a further versions of it
- your recommendation for noob ICHS
- questioning the 904L

Please let me share my opinion on these topics:
- the VR3185 is the best oob GMT movement I ever had. I did not change any parts (eg 660) to gen yet. I had it lubricated but NOT serviced. It runs amazing. Like my gen does. Not any variances to mention. You can easily replace date disc to a gen (which does not work for every SH3186) and set the hour hand forth and back. From what I have read so far, it’s definitely better and more stable than the SH3186 (just my experience)
- recommending a Noob ICHS in such exiting times is a bit outdated I know, you explained it, but in terms of reliability I cannot really agree, because VRF is great as well. For sure, VRF watch would require some mods, but noob watch is also not perfect. And if it comes to OOB I would definitely recommend ARF. From the pics I have seen, this is closest to gen for every LN GMT that I saw before.
-904L Steel has exactly the same scratch resistance / attitude as 316 steel does. The only difference is in terms of corrosion behavior and some people feel that they might notice a little optical difference. But scratches have the same impact on both steel types (as long as it is steel). And my case doesn’t show any „untypical“ scratches.

Just mentioning all this, because otherwise people might came to a conclusion which is not representing both sides

 

[occb2]

I disagree. LOL. But we are all here to learn.

My word is not THE word. Heck Im so tired most of the time I couldn't remember which was the VR and AR.

Now as far as the VR movement. It is a lot better of a movement than the ARF. But we REALLY haven't seen the ARF that is going to be released. I got one but that was after telling them I had a VR in route so they sold me one to compare. Very few went out. My movement had dents in the date plate.

Back to the VR. YOU might believe it is the best rep movement as is. But I have 3 VR GMTs here. 2 batman and one LN. The LN out of the box had an issue which I did not notice till after servicing it. It is in fact the part 3185-660 you mention. Now the Batman that was sent to me to review which I am holding off because the ARF one is not here yet, works flawlessly. Keeping amazing time and GMT time. Jumping hour hand works flawlessly.

The one I brought on RWI is a train wreck. The hour hand is not aligned and the GMT hand looses time over 24 hours. Now that is 3 I have handled and 2 have had issues. Not only that I have spoken to watchmakers here in the NY area and they have the exact issue with the VR that I have with 2 of 3 movements. So I am leaning to believe it is an issue. Maybe like I said it was just the early batch. Hope they fixed it. The newest one I got is running amazing. Again that is 1 of 3 vr3185's

Why I say if you want a reliable 116610LN rep to go for the ICHS noob?

VRF looks terrible when it come to the thickness. Best way to explain is the old 7750 Daytona to the new noob 4130. Also A LOT of people are having issues with their 3185-600.

ARF isn't really out yet but a few and my jumping hour hand crapped the bed days after getting it.

Noob CHS. Movement sucks.

Noob ICHS Looks good and actually works well.

So out of the box throw on your wrist watch. Which would you pick in those situations? For you and me heck no. I wouldn't buy a ICHS. I would rather fix the issues on the ones and make them as close to rolex as possible. But for the average guy who wants to spend under $1000 on their rep and just wear it out of the box, or maybe change crystal. The Noob ICHS is the way to go.

Questioning 904. Ok. I own a real 16610LN, 16613LN, I just sold my real 116610LV, I sold my real 116710LN, my real 16700. All those are 904 steel. The VRF has got more marks on it a few months and that is wearing it a few times a week. I wear my 116610LN that is all rolex but the case which is a noob V9. I have had it for what? Two years? Case has not even close to the amount of scratches. I have a all rolex but mid case 16610LV which is a JF case and that doesn't have as many scratches. Heck the 904 ARF 78200 band which has a high polish center links have almost no scratches. So yes. I do question the case. At least the first one I got. I do surveillance. Which means I sit in a car about 10 hour watching locations and people on workmen comp or cheating or what ever my lawyers give me to do. Not heavy lifting.

So those are the reasons I wrote what I wrote. I also wrote exactly the final build will be. And I did pick the serviced VRF3185 with the 660 replaced. It is freaking running better than any rep I ever serviced.

I hope this explains my side a little more in detail.

 

[occb2]

I think I'm going to take some classes in watch making because this is fascinating. I'd love to be able to do this myself. But alas, so grateful there is this forum and people like you to learn from!

Let me know if my logic makes sense based on your findings:

Ive chosen to go with an ARF base because if I got the VRF, I would get the full bezel assembly vs insert only, and I would have got the ARF bracelet anyways. This will save me $500+ right off the bat. Plus I like the way the 3186 works compared to the 3185. And I am hoping the new batch of ARF have a little more TLC in their movement. I have almost all the visible gen parts now besides the actual watch. I just bought the 3186- 260, 657, 665 parts for the movement.

So from a cost perspective, based on the movement you have, it looks like a few hundred dollars extra of rolex parts need to be installed in the 3186 to be robust? As where the VRF just needed the 3185-660? If this is the case, I may just have my ARF movemement inspected, and if it needs all the extra parts you mentioned, I will sell the 260, 657, 665 parts I already have and just get a VR3185 and add the 3185-660.

So I suppose my main question is actually- based on the movements you received, is the VR3185 with 660 still going to be more robust than the SH3186 with 260, 657, 665, 662, 183, 268, etc.?

Too early to tell brother. I haven't even started to service the 3186. I am hoping to pick up the top gear this weekend. ARF did a really crappy job on the date plate. In a few mins I will take some pics and post them here.

Now you say that you like the way the 3186 works compared to the 3185. They work identically. Not gear wise, but as far as a movement, they work the same. People with a 3185 complained when adjusting hour hands the other hands would shake. Wow. So what. When you were done changing time it was still right on. I think rolex did it for more $$. new movement meant newer technology and people wanted it. I remember when it happen. It was the 16710. So later ones came with the 3186 and then the first ceramic GMT came out and hand the 3186. My VR3185 is running amazing. I have yet to install it on the watch because Im getting a new dial and hands. But on the tester it looks amazing.

 

[Dissemination]

Too early to tell brother. I haven't even started to service the 3186. I am hoping to pick up the top gear this weekend. ARF did a really crappy job on the date plate. In a few mins I will take some pics and post them here.

Now you say that you like the way the 3186 works compared to the 3185. They work identically. Not gear wise, but as far as a movement, they work the same. People with a 3185 complained when adjusting hour hands the other hands would shake. Wow. So what. When you were done changing time it was still right on. I think rolex did it for more $$. new movement meant newer technology and people wanted it. I remember when it happen. It was the 16710. So later ones came with the 3186 and then the first ceramic GMT came out and hand the 3186. My VR3185 is running amazing. I have yet to install it on the watch because Im getting a new dial and hands. But on the tester it looks amazing.

Fair enough. I think I misunderstood about the movement a bit it sounds like. But I was under the impression that the same cost of gen parts for SH was going to be as reliable as the VR with the 660, except maybe just a smidge less reliable if you're going to be flipping through dates all the time.

Nevertheless, I get your point... it's too early to tell, and since I will be getting my ARF sometime next month (assuming they're available), there might be some improvements.

I'll make sure to update everyone whenever I do get my hands on one, and what the watchmaker says.

 

[srhoque]

I think I'm going to take some classes in watch making because this is fascinating. I'd love to be able to do this myself. But alas, so grateful there is this forum and people like you to learn from!

Let me know if my logic makes sense based on your findings:

Ive chosen to go with an ARF base because if I got the VRF, I would get the full bezel assembly vs insert only, and I would have got the ARF bracelet anyways. This will save me $500+ right off the bat. Plus I like the way the 3186 works compared to the 3185. And I am hoping the new batch of ARF have a little more TLC in their movement. I have almost all the visible gen parts now besides the actual watch. I just bought the 3186- 260, 657, 665 parts for the movement.

So from a cost perspective, based on the movement you have, it looks like a few hundred dollars extra of rolex parts need to be installed in the 3186 to be robust? As where the VRF just needed the 3185-660? If this is the case, I may just have my ARF movemement inspected, and if it needs all the extra parts you mentioned, I will sell the 260, 657, 665 parts I already have and just get a VR3185 and add the 3185-660.

So I suppose my main question is actually- based on the movements you received, is the VR3185 with 660 still going to be more robust than the SH3186 with 260, 657, 665, 662, 183, 268, etc.?

After building 3 GMT frankens, here are my thoughts. For me, any franken project starts with the heart of the watch - the movement. If you are going that far and investing in a franken, my vote is to go with the VR3185. I suggest start with a VR3135 and use gen parts to make it VR3185. This is the most stable and reliable movement out there. If you don’t want to spend that much on parts, at least get the wheels to be gen parts.

As for bracelets, I have Noob v10 bracelets that have been worked on by Jon. They are pretty good and the clasp is almost as good as ARF. My GMT frankens use Noob cases, I still consider them superior to ARF/VRF because of rehaut and gen like finish. You do need a custom movement holder though (I know 2 watchmakers in the US who have done it). For the insert, go with gen (the click and feel is far more superior). Fits perfectly on Noob cases.

Just my 2 cents. I am sure everyone has their own opinion. This is why this forum is so useful. We get to learn from each other.

 

[Dissemination]

After building 3 GMT frankens, here are my thoughts. For me, any franken project starts with the heart of the watch - the movement. If you are going that far and investing in a franken, my vote is to go with the VR3185. I suggest start with a VR3135 and use gen parts to make it VR3185. This is the most stable and reliable movement out there. If you don’t want to spend that much on parts, at least get the wheels to be gen parts.

As for bracelets, I have Noob v10 bracelets that have been worked on by Jon. They are pretty good and the clasp is almost as good as ARF. My GMT frankens use Noob cases, I still consider them superior to ARF/VRF because of rehaut and gen like finish. You do need a custom movement holder though (I know 2 watchmakers in the US who have done it). For the insert, go with gen (the click and feel is far more superior). Fits perfectly on Noob cases.

Just my 2 cents. I am sure everyone has their own opinion. This is why this forum is so useful. We get to learn from each other.

I 100% appreciate this kind of feedback. So many thanks to the members here assisting me in helping me build my first franken... great stuff for others to read also.

That being said, I actually purchased a "super" franken bluesy which set me back a pretty penny, and I have a 116622 and dj41 gen parts coming down the pipeline for frankens coming up. I say this because I'm "ballin on a budget" with this GMT. It is not a grail watch for me... but a daily beater... which I will daily beat with the utmost TLC lol. But the nonetheless, I can't say I could go as far as using a Noob case due to the extra cost. I'm trying to stay under $3k when all is said and done. However, if this were a Batman, you best believe I'd go all the way!

I feel you about the movement. I definitely want to make it reliable as possible- this is a worthwhile expense. Learning that I have more homework to do lol. Misiekped is doing the build for me, and a quick search shows that he has built some like you are talking about? I can pick his brain about it.

As far as the bezel- I was also under the impression the ARF is riiiight there. Maybe could use gen click spring and hyrtel ring and so forth. I know gen is gen but was thinking this expense could be worth the 4 or 500 difference in cost from just getting the insert alone. Open to feedback from you and all members here.

Edit: when I say "build my first franken" I mean that this is the first time ive gone to effort over time of sourcing parts and finding someone to build it, etc. Lol.

 

[srhoque]

I 100% appreciate this kind of feedback. So many thanks to the members here assisting me in helping me build my first franken... great stuff for others to read also.

That being said, I actually purchased a "super" franken bluesy which set me back a pretty penny, and I have a 116622 and dj41 gen parts coming down the pipeline for frankens coming up. I say this because I'm "ballin on a budget" with this GMT. It is not a grail watch for me... but a daily beater... which I will daily beat with the utmost TLC lol. But the nonetheless, I can't say I could go as far as using a Noob case due to the extra cost. I'm trying to stay under $3k when all is said and done. However, if this were a Batman, you best believe I'd go all the way!

I feel you about the movement. I definitely want to make it reliable as possible- this is a worthwhile expense. Learning that I have more homework to do lol. Misiekped is doing the build for me, and a quick search shows that he has built some like you are talking about? I can pick his brain about it.

As far as the bezel- I was also under the impression the ARF is riiiight there. Maybe could use gen click spring and hyrtel ring and so forth. I know gen is gen but was thinking this expense could be worth the 4 or 500 difference in cost from just getting the insert alone. Open to feedback from you and all members here.

Edit: when I say "build my first franken" I mean that this is the first time ive gone to effort over time of sourcing parts and finding someone to build it, etc. Lol.

Good luck!! Mike did my build as well, he is one of the best...

 

[KJ2020]

Great discussion everyone. It is indeed exciting times having new movements and cases to work with. I plan to put together a hybrid ARF/VRF using everything ARF except the VRF dial and movement modded wirh a gen 3185-660. I try to keep costs to a minimum and use OOTB as much as possible while getting the most bang including doing rep hybrids if it makes sense. It's just how I roll, lol.

BTW Noob is no longer offering ICHS GMT's, and other factories appear to be following suit. Noob is strictly selling the 2824 CHS timebomb, BP is pushing the same along with the new DG3804 CHS's which I've seen issues with. In fact I rejected two BP DG3804 CHS's due to obvious GMT and hour/minute hand sync issues. I bought BP ICHS's instead.

Look at where the hour hand jumps to with the minute hand at 12 o'clock (should be exactly on the hour markers), and look where the hour hand is when the minute hand is at 12 o'clock during time setting.

https://vimeo.com/383028504

Password is CHS

In case you're wondering OMG BP ICHS what were you thinking, how about this for $288 with covered SEL sides and a rock solid movement I can regulate and repair easily if needed. Fortunately for me I couldn't care less about CHS, that's so overrated. "Just enjoy your beautiful rep" is my motto.