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APSF and ZF Royal Oak 15500 w 4302 clone caliber

legend

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Your experience is your experience, mine is mine. It depends on who you hang out with and/or the crowd you are around, and the experience you are in.

My stock AP reps haven't survived scrutiny amongst my friends who collect gens, that's my experience. If you have a different experience, more power to you.

I agree with the enjoying reps as reps. Let's leave it at that.
Ultimately, you cannot have it both ways. But you can still have full awareness and satisfaction from the hobby.

1. If you want everyone (that includes the brand boutique, family and friends, watch enthusiasts, the general public Q) yourself) you come across, and most importantly yourself, to know that your watch is a gen, then the surefire way is to own a gen.

2. If you own a rep, then I agree with you that it is best to enjoy it as a rep. This is in no way condescending please do not get me wrong. What I really mean is enjoy it as a watch which looks and feels close to the real thing, as a nice adornment on the wrist, as a watch you get compliments for, and all without the hefty price tag the genuine article comes attached with.
 

Reaps

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Ultimately, you cannot have it both ways. But you can still have full awareness and satisfaction from the hobby.

1. If you want everyone (that includes the brand boutique, family and friends, watch enthusiasts, the general public Q) yourself) you come across, and most importantly yourself, to know that your watch is a gen, then the surefire way is to own a gen.

2. If you own a rep, then I agree with you that it is best to enjoy it as a rep. This is in no way condescending please do not get me wrong. What I really mean is enjoy it as a watch which looks and feels close to the real thing, as a nice adornment on the wrist, as a watch you get compliments for, and all without the hefty price tag the genuine article comes attached with.
I think my intentions are misunderstood, I never expect the rep to be like gen, for AP, I treat it like a toy. I show reps to my friends in gen for them to evaluate and see. My friends and family know I only run reps, I don't hide it from them.

What I was trying to emphasize was that AP reps are unlike Rolex and certain other reps.

Even seasoned enthusiasts and Rolex nerds can have trouble distinguishing Rolex rep from gen, but AP is not like this, where in my experience, gen owners of AP and enthusiasts can tell a fake is a fake fairly easily with limited experience.

Always appreciate the input, legend, cheers
 

legend

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What I was trying to emphasize was that AP reps are unlike Rolex and certain other reps.

Even seasoned enthusiasts and Rolex nerds can have trouble distinguishing Rolex rep from gen, but AP is not like this, where in my experience, gen owners of AP and enthusiasts can tell a fake is a fake fairly easily with limited experience.

Always appreciate the input, legend, cheers
If you’re saying AP reps are easier to call out than Rolex ones, yes this is the case for me. I guess in terms of real world prevalence, Rolex is a lot more common than AP and guys are a lot more used to seeing Rolex than AP. When it comes to AP I agree with @serumdiesel that wearer confidence and bearing play a much larger part than the Rolex wearer. And because of my own social foolhardiness and cavalier comments in some social settings , my gens are sometimes mistaken for reps as well. As in “look at what the asshat with the fake AP is saying again” 🤣
 

locvs

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Gen AP is about double the price of Rolex. Obviously finishing is a level above. Especially the dials.

Rep Rolex is just the most refined in terms of reps. There is way more money put into developing the best rep Sub cases, cloning 4130 movments etc. than AP.

If a supplier puts a lot of effort and time, I'm prety sure, that a NWBIG dial can be done for about 500 usd. Under NWBIG i mean something that can only be distinguished from the real thing under a loupe. This will double the price. But lets be honest even now with printed movement sales are good. And engraving would be a 15usd extra probably. So i see no incentive at this point for factories to put money into significant improvements.
 
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Victorparis92

You're Saying I Can Sell?
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Good fellas, this is complete crap and suggests a dearth of experience with gens and/or gen-wearing crowds. You can be far, far more confident in the quality of your AP reps than you've come to believe. Yes, there is substantial variation in replication quality from model to model, factory to factory, but there's a damn good reason why it is you will often hear the wisdom around these parts that "the wearer is the biggest tell". The right person can pass of a shitter, whereas the wrong person couldn't pass off a gen.

The knowledge you'll find around these parts is quite literally world-class. There are simply very few people on planet earth who are as familiar with so many of the different batch variations among the gen models, and then the same among the rep models. The "watch enthusiasts" in the real world will be basing their "real or fake" determination, above and beyond anything else, on you. There are so many different potential points of variation, not just from batch to batch, but simply from watch to watch due to different treatment and circumstances associated with how the watch has been worn, maintained, serviced, abused, etc.

I can speak from extensive personal experience wearing reps among gen-wearing "watch enthusiasts" ever since getting into the rep hobby. I'm also rather aggressive about pointing out that what I'm wearing is fake, and talk about the matter excitedly because I find the rep industry to be absolutely fascinating. Half the time, whoever it is I'm talking to doesn't even believe me when I tell them I'm wearing a fake. This is not an uncommon pattern, and the last occurrence was only a few nights ago at an exclusive dinner event associated with a biztech conference with a completely stock AP rep that I was wearing.

Understanding this will give you a very different appreciation for the rep industry. The chasing of unobtainable "perfection" and mods etc. that those of us in this hobby do is primarily about having fun, as the neverending process is the enjoyment in and of itself (even moreso than the obtainment of the finished pieces). Perhaps an easy way of understanding this is to think about replicas in a different context, such as paintings or ancient artifacts. Ownership of these isn't about fooling anyone into thinking that they're genuine pieces, especially when the real ones are world-famous and unobtainable as they're stored securely in a museum somewhere where the general public can admire and enjoy it. Yet, in order for such a piece to be enjoyable to the collector, it's entirely individually dependent as to what "flaws" are acceptable. A replica Van Gogh that looks like it was drawn by a 4-year-old with crayons probably isn't going to be of much value to anyone. Yet, when you have something sufficiently close that required exceptional skill to reproduce, it will be dependent on the person as to the level of acceptable deviation with regard to brush strokes, colors, textures, other details etc. because it's entirely dependent on the individual person as to what aspect(s) of the original painting have the most meaning to them. At no point in this scenario is the collector concerned about getting "called out", because they're enjoying the replica for precisely what it is: a damn replica. And again, at that point, what's acceptable in terms of deviation from the genuine item is simply about individual preference.
Are you dumb or are you arguing on purpose just because you’re bored at home and your wife is out having intercourse with your neighbour ? What the man said is that the AP replicas are still far than the genuine one and one who knows a little about AP will immediately spot the rep is actually a fake. This does not happen with Submariner or Daytona which are repped with such quality that they are virtually indistinguishable from the gens. Next time save everyone some time and don’t write a logorrhea about the wearer which was not the debate raised by the post. Try to be more attentive.
 
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zerodreamy

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Don't mess with rep AP enthusiasts, we will call you names for implying that replica APs are indistinguishable on the wrist while going down a ski slope at 41km/hr.

Wearer will always be the biggest "tell", regardless of brand and regardless of quality. If you dress or carry yourself like a crude vagabond in the day-to-day with your very special genuine 1 of 1 "Rounalt MacDonault" Richard Mille nobody will bother to wonder, never mind ask, if you have a genuine piece on your wrist.
 

trailboss99

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Are you dumb or are you arguing on purpose just because you’re bored at home and your wife is out having intercourse with your neighbour ? What the man said is that the AP replicas are still far than the genuine one and one who knows a little about AP will immediately spot the rep is actually a fake. This does not happen with Submariner or Daytona which are repped with such quality that they are virtually indistinguishable from the gens. Next time save everyone some time and don’t write a logorrhea about the wearer which was not the debate raised by the post. Try to be more attentive.
Do you like it here?
I ask because if you EVER post something that disrespectful about a member or their spouse again you will be chucked out the nearest window, Alles Klar?
 

Reaps

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Found this posted from a modder
APSF left DP right
Should of posted this in the apsf 15500 thread but I couldn’t find it in the ap section

Wow, so no reason to go for DP anymore, nor ZF unless they update it to same dial
 

Guiltycat

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Wow, so no reason to go for DP anymore, nor ZF unless they update it to same dial
I think dp dial is around $300? The whole 15500 rep is $400. I haven’t seen either of them in real life or in hd photos so wouldn’t know which is nicer to the eye
 
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serumdiesel

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Wow, so no reason to go for DP anymore, nor ZF unless they update it to same dial

I think dp dial is around $300? The whole 15500 rep is $400. I haven’t seen either of them in real life or in hd photos so wouldn’t know which is nicer to the eye

I have a 15500 w/ DP white dial on me, and recently ordered one of the new APSF 15500 white dial models which is currently on the way. Will post some comparison pics once the latter is in-hand.
 
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Guiltycat

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I have a 15500 w/ DP white dial on me, and recently ordered one of the new APSF 15500 white dial models which is currently on the way. Will post some comparison pics once the latter is in-hand.
Sounds perfect, looking forward to it (y)
 

Kbks

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I was told today that ZF is out of stock, might be left with APSF alone
 

Reaps

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Both dials are equally well done. For now, I'll stick with the more inexpensive one.
Yes exactly. You can pay 800 for a APSF + DP dial or just 450 for a stock APSF that, as of now, looks the same

Hopefully the blue and grey dials get done too. Grey still is a weakpoint for fakes.
 

germanynrw

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Found this posted from a modder
APSF left DP right
Should of posted this in the apsf 15500 thread but I couldn’t find it in the ap section

I really like the Apsf one, don‘t see a reason for an upgrade, especially in this pictures.
 
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eBoy

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Pure78

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Found this posted from a modder
APSF left DP right
Should of posted this in the apsf 15500 thread but I couldn’t find it in the ap section

For me APSf have agreement with DP, and APSF purchases and uses dial White from DP because is 100% same dial dp